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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

The Fire Arrow is supposed to be a special technique and it one-shotted Jogo and Mahoraga so I don't think it would scale to his physicals
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
Aight Upgrade threads about to go up just need some finalization on the tiers and how it would look on their profiles

Here's what I would put

Gojo: Low 7-B, higher with Red and Blue, far higher with Hollow Purple and Black Flash
AP: Small City level, higher with Red and Blue, far higher with Hollow Purple and Black Flash, Small City level+ with Hollow Purple Chants and Utahime

Sukuna (Meguna): Low 7-B; Varies with Cleave
AP: Small City level

15 Finger Sukuna: Low 7-C, Low 7-B with Open; Varies with Cleave
AP: Small Town level, Small City level with Open

Hajime Kashimo: Low 7-C, Low 7-B with Innate Technique
AP: Small Town level, Small City level with Innate Technique

These are all that I'd know who would scale to it

Also my Ice Calcs has actually been accepted this time so that could work as supporting evidence for the new ratings


Speaking of that

Is there anything implying that 15 finger Sukuna is superior to Uraume? I feel like there should be something but it's been a while since I read the manga
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Isn’t it stated somewhere that red output’s twice the amount of power that blue does?

If so we can multiply Gojo’s AP by 2x for red at least and even higher for Hollow Purple.
 
Maitreya said:
Isn’t it stated somewhere that red output’s twice the amount of power that blue does?
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c5WnMYt.jpg
 
Hey, what do you all think about Mahoraga adapting to the control of the 10 shadows and becoming free? I know it won't happen but it would be so cool🍪

and can Mahoraga's adaptation speed be calculated?
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
Aight Upgrade threads about to go up just need some finalization on the tiers and how it would look on their profiles

Here's what I would put

Gojo: Low 7-B, higher with Red and Blue, far higher with Hollow Purple and Black Flash
AP: Small City level, higher with Red and Blue, far higher with Hollow Purple and Black Flash, Small City level+ with Hollow Purple Chants and Utahime

Sukuna (Meguna): Low 7-B; Varies with Cleave
AP: Small City level

15 Finger Sukuna: Low 7-C, Low 7-B with Open; Varies with Cleave
AP: Small Town level, Small City level with Open

Hajime Kashimo: Low 7-C, Low 7-B with Innate Technique
AP: Small Town level, Small City level with Innate Technique

These are all that I'd know who would scale to it

Also my Ice Calcs has actually been accepted this time so that could work as supporting evidence for the new ratings


Speaking of that

Is there anything implying that 15 finger Sukuna is superior to Uraume? I feel like there should be something but it's been a while since I read the manga
Click to expand...
I hope I'm not too late but... I really think 15 Finger Sukuna should scale off of Jogo's Maximum Meteor. By himself, he's already >>> Jogo

And Jogo stated his meteor would be able to hurt him, but nothing beyond that. Given how close these results are to his Fire Arrow (And how Sukuna tanked his Low 7-B attack), and there was no implication he'd die from the meteor (With Jogo having the intent of recruiting Sukuna), I feel it'd be fine to scale them to the 4 Megaton value of Maximum Meteor.

Speaking of Maximum Meteor, what ever happened to the calc of it being able to turn an entire town into ashes?
 
We know because of the passive effect of Jogo's domain which Gojo defended against without Infinity.
 
LaserPrecision said:
I hope I'm not too late but... I really think 15 Finger Sukuna should scale off of Jogo's Maximum Meteor. By himself, he's already >>> Jogo

And Jogo stated his meteor would be able to hurt him, but nothing beyond that. Given how close these results are to his Fire Arrow (And how Sukuna tanked his Low 7-B attack), and there was no implication he'd die from the meteor (With Jogo having the intent of recruiting Sukuna), I feel it'd be fine to scale them to the 4 Megaton value of Maximum Meteor.

Speaking of Maximum Meteor, what ever happened to the calc of it being able to turn an entire town into ashes?
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But we don't know to what extent the damage would be

As we've seen Sukuna can take attacks way above his durability and still come out alive

Sukuna saying he wouldn't survive without damage could mean anything from a scratch to losing his arm and half his torso like when he tanked hollow purple

It's just safer to scale him this way than to assume a hypothetical
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
But we don't know to what extent the damage would be

As we've seen Sukuna can take attacks way above his durability and still come out alive

Sukuna saying he wouldn't survive without damage could mean anything from a scratch to losing his arm and half his torso like when he tanked hollow purple

It's just safer to scale him this way than to assume a hypothetical
Click to expand...
Then couldn't we just assume it as an upper bound? It's only 2x his own feat which he tanked with zero damage...

I also think it's more assumptious to assume that Jogo stating "Even Sukuna must've suffered some damage from that" implies extreme levels of damage. "Some" isn't an attack that blows your arm off and incinerates half of your torso. That's a LOT of damage. Some seems implicative of minor damage.
 
Duedate8898 said:
We know because of the passive effect of Jogo's domain which Gojo defended against without Infinity.
Click to expand...

Probably a dumb question but does Mahoraga (or shikigamis in general) wield cursed energy to enhance their body? I do know he uses positive energy and cursed energy with his sword but does he envelop his body with it?
 
Also if we do manage to remove that I actually am revising the Gojo Multipliers

We can go 1 of 2 ways

1. Purple is at least as strong as Red which is twice as strong as Blue

Scaling: 2.03 Megatons, 4.06 Megatons with Red, higher with Purple, 7.308 Megatons with Hollow Purple Chant, 12.18 Megatons with 200% Hollow Purple

2. Hollow Purple is at least as strong as the sum of it's parts which is both Blue and Red since it's only by combining them that the effect is achieved

Scaling: 2.03 Megatons, 4.06 Megatons with Red, 6.09 Megatons with Purple, 10.962 Megatons with Hollow Purple Chant, 18.27 Megatons with 200% Hollow Purple

Personally I'm in favor of the later
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Probably a dumb question but does Mahoraga (or shikigamis in general) wield cursed energy to enhance their body? I do know he uses positive energy and cursed energy with his sword but does he envelop his body with it?
Click to expand...
Probably, since most of them do have cursed techniques and attack physically, it'd be odd if they weren't using cursed energy generally.

Also unrelated, reading back on the beginning of the Sukuna and Mahoraga fight, it looks like Sukuna learning for Mahoraga to overcome the limitless has been an idea since the shikigami was introduced at least. What a seed to plant three years ago
 
LaserPrecision said:
Then couldn't we just assume it as an upper bound?
Click to expand...
Possibly
LaserPrecision said:
It's only 2x his own feat which he tanked with zero damage...
Click to expand...
The attack wasn't aimed at Sukuna it was aimed at Mahoraga

Unless we wanna square cube law it Mahoraga should be the only one who took the full portion of the attack and it vaporized him
LaserPrecision said:
I also think it's more assumptious to assume that Jogo stating "Even Sukuna must've suffered some damage from that" implies extreme levels of damage. "Some" isn't an attack that blows your arm off and incinerates half of your torso. That's a LOT of damage. Some seems implicative of minor damage.
Click to expand...
In this context the use of some damage doesn't really denote little damage

It's like saying "In the middle of that storm the boat must have suffered some damage" which is just a general statement and not specifically denoting minor damage

Also I already talked with Life about this a while ago and he agreed with me about using a 4.5 end due to the lack of building damage and knocked over objects

Which would make the attack High 7-C
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
2. Hollow Purple is at least as strong as the sum of it's parts which is both Blue and Red since it's only by combining them that the effect is achieved

Scaling: 2.03 Megatons, 4.06 Megatons with Red, 6.09 Megatons with Purple, 10.962 Megatons with Hollow Purple Chant, 18.27 Megatons with 200% Hollow Purple
Click to expand...
latter makes sense to me
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
The attack wasn't aimed at Sukuna it was aimed at Mahoraga

Unless we wanna square cube law it Mahoraga should be the only one who took the full portion of the attack and it vaporized him
Click to expand...
Idk why Square Cube law would apply to a fire attack. For an explosion that explodes omnidirectionally it makes sense. For a fire attack the shoots straight up with a wide cylindrical base, it doesn't make much sense. If we want to use Inverse square law, the same should be done for the destruction it caused, which raises the result of the feat. Then use square cube law to get Sukuna's durability. It'd be hypocrisy to do otherwise.

Mahoraga was weakened and in the process of regenerating. Tbh, it seemed like Sukuna was solidly above Mahoraga throughout their entire fight. So it's not an issue if it vaporizes Mahoraga.
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
In this context the use of some damage doesn't really denote little damage

It's like saying "In the middle of that storm the boat must have suffered some damage" which is just a general statement and not specifically denoting minor damage

Also I already talked with Life about this a while ago and he agreed with me about using a 4.5 end due to the lack of building damage and knocked over objects

Which would make the attack High 7-C
Click to expand...
I would like to note that while "some" can be used to refer to an unspecified amount, one of its definition are explicitly "a little" bit of something. So it still seems weird to interpret it as possibly causing fatal damage. If the attack wasn't going to kill or one-shot (K.O. or incapacitate) Sukuna, then it seems more than fine to assume it's an upper bound for Sukuna bare minimum.

I'm surprised a recalc hasn't been made in that case. However, the attack being stated to have the capability to vaporize an entire town should also be considered. That would more than likely net around City level results.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Idk why Square Cube law would apply to a fire attack. For an explosion that explodes omnidirectionally it makes sense. For a fire attack the shoots straight up with a wide cylindrical base, it doesn't make much sense.
Click to expand...
LaserPrecision said:
If we want to use Inverse square law, the same should be done for the destruction it caused, which raises the result of the feat. Then use square cube law to get Sukuna's durability. It'd be hypocrisy to do otherwise.

Mahoraga was weakened and in the process of regenerating. Tbh, it seemed like Sukuna was solidly above Mahoraga throughout their entire fight. So it's not an issue if it vaporizes Mahoraga.
Click to expand...
I'm not gonna argue with this since I already agree with the reasoning in the upgrade thread as to why Sukuna should scale fully
LaserPrecision said:
I would like to note that while "some" can be used to refer to an unspecified amount, one of its definition are explicitly "a little" bit of something.
Click to expand...
Yes but it's equally plausible that the other definition could be used here

I'd like to see the raws so we can settle this for good as in English the only way to really know which definition their using is by tone of voice and enunciation
LaserPrecision said:
So it still seems weird to interpret it as possibly causing fatal damage.
Click to expand...
Good cause that's not what I'm interpreting it as
LaserPrecision said:
If the attack wasn't going to kill or one-shot (K.O. or incapacitate) Sukuna, then it seems more than fine to assume it's an upper bound for Sukuna bare minimum.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see the raws first
LaserPrecision said:
I'm surprised a recalc hasn't been made in that case. However, the attack being stated to have the capability to vaporize an entire town should also be considered. That would more than likely net around City level results.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure someone made a calc with that though it was debunked, could be wrong though

I was waiting for king to edit his blog but I guess their busy (TBH I don't even buy the meteor causing an actual earthquake, more like a small tremor but whatever)

I could make one if need be
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
Pretty sure someone made a calc with that though it was debunked, could be wrong though
Click to expand...
Some people were dismissive of it because if it supposedly had that power, it should've destroyed the buildings in Shibuya.

My arguments was that he can control collateral damage (Because the guide states CAN destroy a town, implying he has control over that capacity) and that they were being hypocritical because the meteor itself was calc'd as Tier 7 for the earthquake it caused, yet it ALSO didn't destroy the buildings near it. Thus the meteor shouldn't even be building level if we want to argue he can't control collateral. Clearly he would have some level of control over his own attack if he can create Tier 7 matter and didn't destroy the skyscraper it DIRECTLY impacted.
 
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