Jotaro Kujo (Phasing through hearts)

[ProfessorLord]

I've seen this argument come up many times in the past. People argue that Jotaro can use Star Platinum to phase through a characters heart and instantly kill them.

Not only is this out of character for him (he's never done it offensively lol) but it still shouldn't matter. The only people who this is effective against are those in his tier and below. It will not stop the High 7-A. People seem to forget that if you can tank High 7-A attacks, your organs can tank similar forces.

That being said I do not think that his fight is valid .

 

[Overlord775]

Thread:1755130

^ if you think the result of the battle are flawed you should ask it to be removed in the tread above

 

[ProfessorLord]

No thank you, I'm here to gather opinions of others first.

 

[YungManzi]

I don't think this is a fair assessment of Jotaro's abilities.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

This should probably be in a different board. General Discussion at the very least or maybe Content Revision? Either way, just redo the match. Or bring up your concerns on the current one. It's not closed and the last post was just 6 days ago.

 

[ProfessorLord]

It's not an assessment of his abilities. It's an assessment of a single move.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Yay for ninjas. My only issue is your organs tend to be a lot weaker then the rest of you is. I could take a few hammer blows just fine, but my heart? Not a lot of effort is needed to squash my heart with a hammer.

 

[YungManzi]

@Professor Lord

It doesn't change the fact that it's not fair.

Saying things like he wouldn't do it in-character..when the only people he would do it against (other stand users) can defend against it.

It's like saying a Naruto character won't use genjutsu because he doesn't use genjutsu against people who he knows can resist it.

If Jotaro notices that a relatively strong opponent that he is fighting can't see or defend against star platinum crushing hearts, there's no reason why he wouldn't use this ability.

It should probably be left out of battles anywany because it's an unknown factor.

I'm neutral on whether or not it negs tiers.

 

[Walking_Strawman]

Attacking internal organs is definitely a valid way to bypass durability. It doesn't matter that he doesn't usually use it offensively in character, because if he is willing to kill, then that holds him off from not doing it

 

[ProfessorLord]

It is completely fair @Yung. You cannot assume a character will use it in applications they have never demonstrated before. It is entirely out of character for him to do so. Not once has he performed it offensively.

I would argue it'd be the last option he tries. If he's going up against a 7-A they won't give him the time to exhaust all of his options.

I also don't know how much it negates durability.

 

[YungManzi]

@Professor

I don't think you can really argue for it, I'm saying that it's an unknown factor becuase he's never been in a situation that would require or allow him to do it.

The only people he would use it against are people he can't use it against. So, saying he wouldn't do it because he doesn't use it against base humans and stand users is completely taking the ability out of context.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Correct, that's what why characters doing things they have never done before are considered out of character. This is a fact. Go check character induced stupidity page.

It's not out of context. Jotaro would rather punch his opponent until they break. Why would he punch DIO's skull in when he could have just punched the brain and turned it to smush? Because it's not in character for him to do so.

 

[Standuser081]

Agreed. Though he can do it if the fight requires him to be bloodlusted, right?

 

[ProfessorLord]

Correct.

 

[YungManzi]

I see....I agree.

 

[Eficiente]

I agree with this as well.

 

[Standuser081]

Also, doesn't phasing through and crushing the heart count as some sort of durability negation? Because as Apies said, internal organs are really easy to damage unlike external ones like skin and muscles.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Why does it matter whether or not it's in character when bloodlust is an option for VS Debates?

Most 7-A characters are around HS to MHS+ and don't have the combat speed to keep up with Star Platinum. It'll give Jotaro plenty of time to figure out that punching them normally wouldn't work. Even if Star Platinum breaks its fists on their body, it'll still be able to crush their organs, as that's exactly what happened with DIO; SP broke its fist on TW's leg, but was still able to affect Joseph's heart. Literally all SP would have to do to kill with the ability is squeeze a little harder.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Because most people don't like bloodlusting. It no longer becomes a fight between characters, but a fight between abilities.

It's very out of character for him to phase through his opponents, no matter how you spin it. His solution to opponents he cannot damage is "punch it some more, this time harder"

 

[Standuser081]

His solution to opponents he cannot damage is "punch it some more, this time harder"

Every shounen protagonist ever, amright?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Because most people don't like bloodlusting. It no longer becomes a fight between characters, but a fight between abilities.

Your argument here is non-sequitur. When you say "most people don't like bloodlusting", even if such assumptions based on limited observation were held true, it follows logically that some people do. It doesn't follow logically to invalidate bypassing organs as a whole solely for this reason, if that's what you're arguing.

It's very out of character for him to phase through his opponents, no matter how you spin it.

Again, as long as bloodlust is a thing, "it's out of character" cannot be used as an argument to deny a character an application of their ability. Otherwise we'd have to apply this standard to every character who could potentially use their abilities in ways that can be seen as out of character.

His solution to opponents he cannot damage is "punch it some more, this time harder".

The only times I recall this mindset being demonstrated is with Sheer Heart Attack, The High Priestess, DIO's steamroller, and maybe Wheel of Fortune. None of which have organs for Jotaro to attack.

Besides, if Jotaro crushed the hearts of all of his opponents the moment he got the opportunity to, Stardust Crusaders would have been a lot shorter, and arguably a lot less interesting. It's more convenient for having a suspenseful fight if Jotaro simply doesn't use the ability. Much like how Jotaro could've definitely used Star Finger at multiple points during his fight with DIO, but just kinda didn't. And it's definitely in character for him to use it too, since he used it in the neutral against Anubis while under pressure.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

We allow bloodlusting. I don't see how this is an issue.

However outside of a bloodlusted match it's pretty presumptuous to assume he would do it. There are defensive hax that could theoretically be used offensively to great effect all over fiction, yet the users never apply them offensively in-character.

 

[ProfessorLord]

You asked why it matters if we can just bloodlust the match. I told you not everyone wants to bloodlust a match (as evident just by looking at any character page), that is all. I don't know what this strawman is about, you asked a question, I gave you an answer.

Again I didn't say something being out of character means it's impossible for the character to want to do, another strawman.

That's a good portion of his fights, you're just proving yourself wrong. But if all we've seen him do is punch his opponents, we can't assume he'll instantly crush the organs of others because he has literally never done this. This would require progression in a fight, not something he'd think up immediately.

 

[Therefir]

I wonder why Arbitrary mentioned bloodlusted Jotaro when this thread is about what he would do in character...

 

[ProfessorLord]

gosh, thank you @therefir

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Also the thread in question wasn't using bloodlust, and everyone FRAed Abritrary saying Jotaro doing something we all agreed he wouldn't do in character, so that match should be 100% removed.

 

[ProfessorLord]

okay @dargoo

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

inb4 it's redone with Bloodlust