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Jonathan Joestar vs Prince Marth

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Torlikoff said:
Marth AP and speed stomp.
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To be honest, his page isn't the best, and comparing raw stats makes it seem like a stomp. Scaling his AP to Multi-City Block just because his sword is able to harm foes that can withstand lava doesn't take into account the two very different types of attacks they are. (One is just extremely high temperatures, and one is slashing/stabbing motion.)

Also, I'm equalizing speed.
 
Even if you disagree with the scaling, the fact is that we go by the pages, and the jojo who is clearly not the best would be one shot and lacks the abilities to compensate for that.
 
Torlikoff said:
Even if you disagree with the scaling, the fact is that we go by the pages, and the jojo who is clearly not the best would be one shot and lacks the abilities to compensate for that.
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If the stats on the pages are incorrect, you bring it up during the versus thread. You don't blindly ignore it and look at stats alone anyways, that's how you have an ignorant discussion and have false/skewed results.

I'd argue Jojo has some degree of swordsmanship seeing as how he was able to effectively use his sword against Dio, (swordsmanship was probably the norm for a rich family back then) and definitely has the durablity and Regenerationn to survive any number of non-lethal strikes that Marth may land.

So it's clearly not a stomp in Marth's favor. Regardless, vote counted.
 
Falchion makes marth high 6B...
 
Jojo Furueru zo h─üto! Moetsukiru hodo h─½to!! Kizamu zo, ketsueki no b─½to!


SUNLIGHT YELLOW OVAAADRAIVEEEEEEEEEs Marth due to superior strenght and skill, not to mention Jojo can channel hamon thru Falchion with Metal Silver Overdrive.
 
The only reason I'm voting with him is the gigantic AP and speed gap, but that's equalized so it's irrelevant. Otherwise the not best jojo has him beat. It's just that the AP gap is so massive that it's irrelevant.
 
Jojo chanelling hamon thru falchion pretty much makes Marth´s ap advatnage useless.

And, as far as i know from playing awakening, Falchion only has that ap increase against Dragons.
 
Wokistan said:
Falchion makes marth high 6B...
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That's because Falchion can ONLY harm Draconian foes who are 6B. Jonathan Joestar is not draconian. Therefore, it provides no other advantages other than being able to heal Marth.
 
Uhh. If you want Marth to only be High 6-B vs dragons and not vs everyone, you need to make a CRT. As of now this is a tier 8 vs a tier 6 and is a massive stomp.
 
It's listed on the profile as giving him a massive AP advantage, nothing implies there that it only hurts them due to being dragons. Doesn't matter that the only high 6Bs he's fought Steve dragons, Occam's razor dictates that it's more likely that marth is just that strong rather than the sword having some special property of only working on dragons that's not stated.
 
RapidMotorcycle19 said:
Is the anime canon? Because that shows Marth as being pushed into battle with little training and being afraid of even killing a deer.
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That doesn't change the fact that he's still a battle hardened warrior.
 
Well, i have to ask someone who knows about fire emblem, i tought it was stated that it only hurt dragons.

Anyways, Metal Silver Overdrive still would most likely take this.
 
Wokistan said:
It's listed on the profile as giving him a massive AP advantage, nothing implies there that it only hurts them due to being dragons. Doesn't matter that the only high 6Bs he's fought Steve dragons, Occam's razor dictates that it's more likely that marth is just that strong rather than the sword having some special property of only working on dragons that's not stated.
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You're all misinterpreting information. It's 6B because it's able to harm 6B foes, those of which are dragon-ki. In normal use, it is not 6B, and functions the same as a blade of that build would.

https://fireemblemwiki.org/Falchio

It IS stated throughout the games. In every single appearance, the item carries a variation of the description "Deals bonus damage to Dragon and Fell Dragon units.". This is because it DOES carry a special property against dragons.

If Falchion really was 6B, then every unit in the game would have 6B durability, even the unarmed villagers, since they have the potential to withstand Falchion.

It's common knowledge if you've played the games, a CRT isn't needed, especially since it's on Falchion's page anyway. Why is this an argument?
 
There is no note on that fact on Marth's page tho. Maybe a CRT is needed to find out who decided not to include that weakness on his profile.
 
G a m e p l a y m e c h a n i c s

Also, Alm pulling Falchion (yes, I know they're not the same sword) absolutely terrified Jedah and he ran away first thing, wouldn't make sense if it was 8-A against "anyone who isn't a Dragon"

In Awakening, Naga says "With my blessing, thou may draw forth Falchion's true might. The blade of the exalts shall again strike like the dragon's fang. Your strength will then be my equal."

Are we saying that Naga is also 8-A against everything that isn't a dragon?
 
There's this wonderful little thing called Gameplay mechanics, we don't scale Magikarp to Legendaries for a reason, even though you could use an Old Rod after their battle
 
JustSomeWeirdo said:
G a m e p l a y m e c h a n i c s
Also, Alm pulling Falchion (yes, I know they're not the same sword) absolutely terrified Jedah and he ran away first thing, wouldn't make sense if it was 8-A against "anyone who isn't a Dragon"

In Awakening, Naga says "With my blessing, thou may draw forth Falchion's true might. The blade of the exalts shall again strike like the dragon's fang. Your strength will then be my equal."

Are we saying that Naga is also 8-A against everything that isn't a dragon?
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Like you said, they're two different Falchions. One of which carries the bonus damage to dragon effect, one of which doesn't.

Another vague statement from Fire Emblem. The "your strength will then be my equal" doesn't mean that the sword will carry 100% of her power. It can imply the strength of her fang, which is what the sword is made out of, not her actual being. Therefore the strength of the sword is equal to that of her fang, which is still "her".

One vague statement from Naga isn't going to make Marth 6B against everyone that easily.

EDIT: **** it, even though I shouldn't have to, I'll change it.
 
Torlikoff said:
He's still 8-A, and still has enough of an advantage to one shot.
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Jonathan can also one shot with Luck/Pluck and come close to a K.O. with any hamon-based strike, so it'd help if you'd provide a little more clarification as to how.

But your vote remains unchanged.
 
Both swords are Naga's fang, why should one fang be so much weaker

"Your power is my equal" totally doesn't mean that they're actually equal, and assuming that the Exalted Falchion is equal to other fangs, well, see the Valentian Falchion, which is another of Naga's fangs
 
JustSomeWeirdo said:
Both swords are Naga's fang, why should one fang be so much weaker
"Your power is my equal" totally doesn't mean that they're actually equal
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My front two teeth are significantly weaker compared to my molars. The sword being equal to her, as in her tooth is a very valid, albeit strange interpretation of a very vague statement.

Regardless I updated post, so If you have an opinion on who'd win I'd like to hear it.
 
How does he one shot with his sword if he's 8B, and not on the cusp of 8A? Also, your interpretations seem to ignore the concept of Occam's razor. why interpret a statement saying that two things are equal as something else when there's a much more plausible option that requires less mental gymnastics?
 
You are saying that, unless Marth's Falchion is up against a Dragon, that it's an entire 714712929909 times weaker than another one of Naga's fangs, just because gameplay dictates that it's super effective against dragons

But yeah, Jonathan isn't going to pass Hamon through a sword if it's also effortlessly cutting through him at the same time, even assuming Metal Silver Overdrive worked just like it did against Bruford, he's still ending up crippled, considering he uses his leg, using Metal Silver Overdrive actually puts Jonathan into a worse situation than Johnny.

Also, Hamon isn't going to negate Marth's durability anywhere close to the same extent that it does against the undead, given that it only does so by virtue of being their weakness and that a Hamon attack from Ultimate Kars didn't damage Joseph the same way Jonathan's would to a zombie

And yes, this is taking the change to a Silver Sword into consideration
 
JustSomeWeirdo said:
You are saying that, unless Marth's Falchion is up against a Dragon, that it's an entire 714712929909 times weaker than another one of Naga's fangs, just because gameplay dictates that it's super effective against dragons
Click to expand...
Yes, because it doesn't mean the two fangs are equal in power. Logically, different teeth carry different strength. One was even given her blessing, they are no longer equal in terms of power. And just because Falchion is able to cause significant damage to a 6B dragon, doesn't mean the sword is capable of 6B feats, it just means it has the potency and potential to kill 6B draconian foes, it doesn't give it 6B destructive capabilities.

There, enough talk about Falchion, it's irrelevant to the battle now anyways.

Wokistan said:
How does he one shot with his sword if he's 8B, and not on the cusp of 8A? Also, your interpretations seem to ignore the concept of Occam's razor. why interpret a statement saying that two things are equal as something else when there's a much more plausible option that requires less mental gymnastics?
Click to expand...
Lower tier characters have the ability to defeat higher tier characters, especially with such a small gap between the two, no more of that fallacy please. It's an old english style statement, you're going to have different interpretations because of the vague nature. My interpretation takes into account the deliberate gameplay mechanics incorporated with the lore, that being the special bonus damage to dragon.

Hamon isn't going to negate Marth's durability at all, I don't think that's an issue. It is, however, going to bolster Jonathan's already incredible strength to higher levels. This should help him compensate against Marth's superior swordsmanship. Marth isn't going to slice Jonathan's foot off with Metal Silver Overdrive, hamon specifically reduces and repels the pressure against sharp edges or points, as seen during the fight with Joseph and ACDC, he literally stands and jumps around on spikes. I'm sure if Jonathan was able to use it against the sword strike of a vampire, he'd be able to do it against Marth with no issue.


And while yes, the Hamon won't melt his skin, it still has the ability to cause bodily failure/control as seen when he did it against Wang Chan, or when Ceaser did it to Senorita.
 
Causing damage to a character with 6B dura is a 6B feat. Not everything needs the AOE to match, by that logic DBS characters are like planet level tops. Most fictions don't give everyone at 8A and up crazy AOE.
 
Also, your response to me insinuates that Jonathan has the strength advantage. He doesn't. Marth outskills and strengths here, and you said yourself that he's not going to get dura negged. Also, I never said lower tier characters couldn't beat higher tiers, theres hax for that, or that they can't be comparable in AP. Take the PMM 5Bs for instance, who are literally 5A minus 1 joule in AP. They can be considered comparable to low end 5As in terms of raw AP. Thing is, that's not the case here. Jonathan isn't at the pinnacle of 8B, and he doesn't outskill or outhax either. Mismatch.
 
Wokistan said:
Causing damage to a character with 6B dura is a 6B feat. Not everything needs the AOE to match, by that logic DBS characters are like planet level tops. Most fictions don't give everyone at 8A and up crazy AOE.
Click to expand...
I know it's a 6B feat, it still doesn't mean he has 6B descructive capabilities, nor does it mean that he has 6B attack potency to non-draconian foes. Falchion is removed now, so if you have a reason as to who would win, please share.
 
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