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JoJo's Bizarre Adventures: Attack Potency, Striking Strength and Durability CRT (Part 1 to 6)
- Thread starter M3X_2.0
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Ok so I guess Part's 1-6 humans next. Because that seems to be a higher priority and we can likely gather enough feats within like a day, already have a handful saved. (Honestly, doing a quick gleam of Part 7 humans, 95% of them actually do seem to be fine more or less durability wise) so that's fortunately barely an issue.
Part 7 shit or speed. Would be later.
Part 7 shit or speed. Would be later.
That can be fleshed out later.
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It’s better to add the new calculations on Jojo’s page
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They have a bit of a different scaling (time travel bullshit will do that), could probably create a quick thread later today.
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no, let's proceed in order with SBR and Jojolion, then we'll see EoH and the rest
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You're right. Will do that.
Also for future reference because this was intentional. Ermes profile ain't being updated, it's ass, needs to be overhauled completely so it's being left as is for the moment.
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Wait why is Pre-Deep pass Jonathan below Joseph.
Jonathans Hamon was still strong back then. And his physical strength was also stronger?
And please don't say that "B-But Jonathan couldn't defeat Dio!" Bullshit as the only Reason Jonathan couldn't instantly end Dio was because of his freezing power.
And he cut his head off.
Jonathans Hamon was still strong back then. And his physical strength was also stronger?
And please don't say that "B-But Jonathan couldn't defeat Dio!" Bullshit as the only Reason Jonathan couldn't instantly end Dio was because of his freezing power.
And he cut his head off.
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Joseph literally beated creature such Santana which see Dio and friends as only mere food
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Because pre-deep pass Jonathan is below Pre-Training Joseph? Joseph has more Hamon, innate skill and the like. Better feats, better scaling, etc.
You can even see this when Joseph first encountered Lisa Lisa, despite having little if zero training, he could properly water walk, while Pre-Deep Pass Jonathan couldn't even do that properly and struggled to properly walk without having his knees be completely submerged.
And no, Jonathan wouldn't have been able to beat Dio regardless of freezing, Dio ******* snapped Will's leg with his finger, someone who's around equal with Jonathan, he casually tosses both around like nothing, it's stated he's far above them, twice, and Jonathan got his ass kicked by Tarkus and struggled with Bruford, and you think he could beat Dio? And then there's the fact that Jonathan is stated to be Dio's equal after the Deep Pass, if he was only equal after a substantial power boost, why would you think he's comparable before the power boost that made them equal? Come on now.
Yeah, after Deep Pass my dude.
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(He also cut his head off with a sword, which is a tool that famously makes it easier to cut things off)
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He didn't even cut his head off, he bisected him, after the blade stopped due to resistance, and then he slowly pushed it through him.
Not that it matters, Dio and Post Deep Pass are equal at their peak.
Anyway, if we're done arguing as to why a Jonathan who got his ass kicked by someone weaker than Dio (who didnt even think it worth his time) and casually got tossed around by him isn't actually on par with him, and a Joseph with better feats, scaling, and statements is above the dude with worse scaling, feats, and statements, this thread should just about be done.
Post Training Joseph>Post Deep Pass Jonathan>Pre Training Joseph>Pre Deep Pass Jonathan.
Not even that complex.
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I'm pretty that has to do with Hamon control and not Hamon power.
Zepelli only taught Jonathan Sendo (Martial arts) but not proper hamon hamon control as he only had 2 weeks to train him.
And he even states this himself
https://bu4.mkklcdnv6tempv4.com/***...vitation_to_a_trap_official_color_scans/7.jpg
That Jonathan lacks the control to focus all his energy into his feet/knees.
And this makes sense as we see Jonathan fail.
https://bu4.mkklcdnv6tempv4.com/***...vitation_to_a_trap_official_color_scans/6.jpg
Even in Part 2 Lisa Lisa didn't seem impressed by his power but his control and that's why she considered him talented.
https://bu.mkklcdnv6temp.com/******...nture_part_2_battle_tendency/chapter_28/5.jpg
And even then Jonathan was still considered talented by a Hamon Master Zepelli.
https://bu4.mkklcdnv6tempv4.com/***...the_miracle_energy_official_color_scans/9.jpg
And before you say "bUt JoSepH cOuLd teAr ThrOuGH EsiDeSi's FinGeR wItH hAmOn"
Then no that doesn't count as Joseph was focusing all his Hamon into one point increasing it's power which we know it does from the Hell Climb Pillar as Ceaser states himself.
https://bu.mkklcdnv6temp.com/******...ture_part_2_battle_tendency/chapter_29/15.jpg
"I have to concentrate it through single points--My finger tips! The Hamon is more powerful through my fingertips"
So I think that makes it obvious that Walking on water with Hamon is more about control than power.
Kinda like chakra lmao.
We also this where Esidesi says "You were able learn this much of the Hamon!"
Impling that Joseph only grew more skill full with Hamon than grow stronger.
https://bu.mkklcdnv6temp.com/************/k2/kt926267/chapter_33/14.jpg
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ok but like, joseph still has better scaling lmao
jonathan couldn't kill dio for good after amps despite landing multiple hits on him while joseph did more damage against awakened pillar men
jonathan couldn't kill dio for good after amps despite landing multiple hits on him while joseph did more damage against awakened pillar men
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I don't get this comparison that Joseph stans always make.
1. Dio is stronger than Straizo. He's above him in the official food chain. You can even compare their Stingy space rippers.
As Dio (As just ahead btw) had enough power to split the roof of his castle and split the clouds.
While Strazio was just a full vampire space ripper eyes things couldn't even pierce a wall let alone shatter glass.
https://i.imgur.com/5Onfl3e_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
2. Joseph knew Striazo was coming and all the Vampires abilities he had legit prep time. Jonathan didn't have shit.
3. Joseph didn't even defeat Strazio since he killed himself.
4.of ******* course Jonathan needs training he wasn't using Hamon for 18 years like Joseph yet even after 2 weeks of training he could one-shot Zombies.
5. Jonathan didn't need Wills Hamon to defeat Dio that was only supposed to be symbolic of Carrying a friends will trope.
And he needed the energy to break the steel collar as he couldn't use Hamon breathing since the collar was restrictng him and he would've passed out.
Also, Will was dying anyway why wouldn't he give Jonathan his Hamon?
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I'm not saying Josephs Hamon is trash but Jonathan was described by Hamon Master Zepelli, as being a “one in a million talent” with Hamon. His natural talent with it, his intimate understanding of it, and the boost from Will Zeppeli made the amount of raw power Jonathan possessed absolutely massive. he also had absurd physical strength and endurance. As a vampire, Dio had super strength enough to throw a man hard enough to no only kill, but completely eviscerate three men at once, and when Dio caught Jonathan’s sword strike and completely stopped it, Jonathan had enough strength to (from an extremely disadvantageous position based on the position of the sword, treating the position of DIO’s hands as the fulcrum) overpower him and cut through Dio’s entire body. As for his endurance, Jonathan, with two gaping holes in his neck, still held on and continued to use Hamon for several minutes.
Joseph’s power is much more trained and took longer to develop, and even with Caesar’s power added to his own, his total Hamon power wasn’t quite on Jonathan’s level. He did, however, use his Hamon much more creatively, using clever tactics and even dirty tricks to make up for a lack of experience and a lower power output.Joseph was creative and smart, but everything he did was infusing something in Hamon and hitting the ennemy with it. There is nothing he did that Jonathan couldn't have replicate, and Jonathan had a much bigger variety of attacks.
Jonathan with 2 weeks of training was able to one shot Jack the Ripper trough a wall without touching him, or knockdown someone standing on a wall just by putting his hand on the wall.
He made flower blossom on a tree just by touching it and without trying, as well on the corpse on Bruford after killing him with a single overdrive. He had ton of overdrive attacks, too (trough wall, water,rocks, fire...), can do the leaft gliding thing as well as the Zoom Punch, or healing his own arm. Joseph needed oil to imbue something (like his hammer) with Hamon, Jonathan didn't need to do it with his sword, and even imbued his own ******* fist with fire.
The only thing preventing Dio to be annihilated by Jonathan was his ice powers.
And why do people assume that Straizo was stronger than Dio? Literally, Dio's first feat as a Vampire was throwing a body so hard it made a man explode on impact.
And comparing The space stingy eye ripper (I acknowledge a weird thing to power scale). Dio's one was capable of slicing a part of his castle and split the clouds. While Straizo's couldn't even shatter a mirror.
And then we have the JoJo Food Chain from part 2.
https://i.imgur.com/5Onfl3e_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
So while I believe that Joseph is more skilled and had better Hamon control, I don't understand why people claim that it was also more potent. It just feels like an excuse to hate on Jonathan and downplay him (I've seen Joseph and Jotaro fans argue that they're on the same level physically as Jonathan) along with people creating fake anti feats and flaws to try to justify Jonathan losing to Straizo.
But still, I could be wrong but it just once more feels like a cheap reason to shit on Jonathan and praise Joseph.
Joseph’s power is much more trained and took longer to develop, and even with Caesar’s power added to his own, his total Hamon power wasn’t quite on Jonathan’s level. He did, however, use his Hamon much more creatively, using clever tactics and even dirty tricks to make up for a lack of experience and a lower power output.Joseph was creative and smart, but everything he did was infusing something in Hamon and hitting the ennemy with it. There is nothing he did that Jonathan couldn't have replicate, and Jonathan had a much bigger variety of attacks.
Jonathan with 2 weeks of training was able to one shot Jack the Ripper trough a wall without touching him, or knockdown someone standing on a wall just by putting his hand on the wall.
He made flower blossom on a tree just by touching it and without trying, as well on the corpse on Bruford after killing him with a single overdrive. He had ton of overdrive attacks, too (trough wall, water,rocks, fire...), can do the leaft gliding thing as well as the Zoom Punch, or healing his own arm. Joseph needed oil to imbue something (like his hammer) with Hamon, Jonathan didn't need to do it with his sword, and even imbued his own ******* fist with fire.
The only thing preventing Dio to be annihilated by Jonathan was his ice powers.
And why do people assume that Straizo was stronger than Dio? Literally, Dio's first feat as a Vampire was throwing a body so hard it made a man explode on impact.
And comparing The space stingy eye ripper (I acknowledge a weird thing to power scale). Dio's one was capable of slicing a part of his castle and split the clouds. While Straizo's couldn't even shatter a mirror.
And then we have the JoJo Food Chain from part 2.
https://i.imgur.com/5Onfl3e_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
So while I believe that Joseph is more skilled and had better Hamon control, I don't understand why people claim that it was also more potent. It just feels like an excuse to hate on Jonathan and downplay him (I've seen Joseph and Jotaro fans argue that they're on the same level physically as Jonathan) along with people creating fake anti feats and flaws to try to justify Jonathan losing to Straizo.
But still, I could be wrong but it just once more feels like a cheap reason to shit on Jonathan and praise Joseph.
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And because of that he's weaker wow who could've guessed.
Both, in fact Zeppeli himself states "he doesn't have enough hamon stored up to his knees yet". Doesnt matter though, it reflects Jonathan having less innate skill than even Joseph, and couple that with nowhere near as good feats, statements, scaling, etc, why the **** would we EVER scale pre Jonathan above Pre Joseph?
Except for the times she did but ignore those.
Yes, Jonathan is talented, and Joseph is even more so, surpassing Hamon masters with decades of training within a month, in a day, he surpasses thousands of Hamon warriors, the Pillar Man all note how baffling it is how he grew so much in such a small time, Lisa Lisa and Caesar both point out his exceptional talent, I could go on, it isn't even an argument, Jonathan has talent but Joseph could ******* use Hamon despite not knowing what it was at the age of like 9. And without having ever trained a day in his life he's doing shit Jonathan could only dream of.
Why the **** would I bring up Post Training Joseph? Post Training Joseph would fold the entirety of Part 1. It's not even up for debate, we're outright told Joseph is one of the most powerful Hamon warriors to ever exist in guides and shit post training, and he fights Pillar Man, and even without any Hamon he can knock vampires on their asses.
Yes, that's one of the fundamental applications and utility of Hamon, anything else you'd like to add?
Both, and it's also funny as **** given Joseph is pointed out to barely have any control pre-training, that's more a knock on Jonathan then Joseph mate.
Irrelevant.
How about ******* both? It's outright stated he grew stronger too, **** I think we even have some of those scans on the profile months ago even.
Yeah and? Pre Deep Pass Jonathan was struggling against ******* high end zombies, Dio doesnt matter at all here.
Anime only feat. Manga only they're literally identical.
It literally pierced the wall and popped a hole in the glass what the **** are you talking about?
Joseph knew barely anything about vampires, he only heard Erina's story, that's it, he knew they're strong, undead, and can shoot beams out of their eyes. Jonathan unironically knew way more and had way more experience. Jonathan didn't have shit? He had allies, training, and more, with direct knowledge on Dio.
Yes, he killed himself, after being defeated by Joseph.
And it's pointed out five different times Joseph had zero training, by Lisa Lisa, Caesar, Speedwagon, and more. The fact Joseph could use Hamon at the age of like 8 is telling of his innate skill.
Except he literally did, it's been confirmed in interviews, that Jonathan and Dio are only equals at the end of the part, meaning, they sure as **** aint equal before the end if it took Jonathan getting a huge power boost that more then doubles his power, in a avin much like Potaro Fusion, to simply be on par with Dio.
Yeah, he needed the energy, because without it he wasnt strong enough, dude it's outright stated on panel like 8 times that Deep Pass amplified his Hamon, Skill, Power, Durability and more.
The **** does this matter?
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I think you're making this too personal, and those walls of text really make it difficult to address your arguments.
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Lmao Dio's only beaten Jonathan twice the win to loss ration between the two is 3:2
1. Dio beat Jonathan as a kid.
2. Dio's kills Jonathan.
1. Jonathan wrecks Dio after he gets his first Zenkai.
2. Jonathan wrecks Dio again at the mansion.
3. Jonathan wrecks Dio at the castle (Yes I consider it a win as Dio didn't die because he cut of his head)
Heck he didn't even win Jonathans father's love at the end.
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Also learn the difference between keys, you're mixing up Pre Deep Pass, Post Deep Pass, Pre Training, Post Training, etc feats, shit isnt at all comparable.
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Uh, ******* so?
How does something like Jonathan beating up a 12 year old Dio effect how strong they are at specific points in their life with superpowers? These arent even real arguments.
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