Johnny Joestar and Gyro Zeppeli Downgrade

[Firephoenixearl]

Right, youll be hit with a fraction of whatever energy the beyblade is spinning at. Very good point.
Same with the IR nailshot, youll be hit with a fraction of whatever energy its spinning at... which is infinite. Infinity divided or subtracted by anything is still infinity. The fraction of infinity is infinity. You are still hit with infinite force.

You'll be hit with none of the energy from the spin dude.

If a beyblade is spinning and falls on your hand you don't feel the AP from the spin + AP from the fall. Only the AP from the fall since rotation is useless as it doesn't contribute to the vertical AP in this case. Not even a fraction of it will hit you.

@Triforce

You seem to have this missconception. That's because friction not because AP. Friction helps produce heat or, if it's strong enough it will rip the skin off, that's it. Still not universal AP, because skin has friction. Friction needs a point of contact and the harder it's being pushed against it, the higher the friction. If your character has 3-A skin, your MFTL bullet ain't gonna apply enough preasure to his skin to make the friction count and then again that is "only for skin" as it takes skin properties. Try doing the same thing to steel and it won't work as the bullet will slide off due to lack of friction. Our AP standards are based off of AP that can work on anything. That's like giving posion High 3-A AP because it would kill even humans with high 3-A skin durability.

Not to mention...ripping skin off is not a sign of energy or AP.

 

[Promestein]

Inclined to lean towards Monarch. I'm fine with Unknown.

 

[ProfessorLord]

If a beyblade is spinning and falls on your hand you don't feel the AP from the spin + AP from the fall. Only the AP from the fall since rotation is useless as it doesn't contribute to the vertical AP in this case. Not even a fraction of it will hit you.

Once said beyblade hits you, you'll be experiencing a fraction of the rotational energy as the tip spins against your skin.

In this case, it's a beyblade with infinite energy. A fraction of that is infinity. You'll be experincing infinite energy as it spins against your skin.

Not that hard to understand.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Once said beyblade hits you, you'll be experiencing a fraction of the rotational energy as the tip spins against your skin.

In this case, it's a beyblade with infinite energy. A fraction of that is infinity. You'll be experincing infinite energy as it spins against your skin.

Not that hard to understand.

As i said, not applicable. It's because of friction, not becaue of energy. It doesn't translate to AP. Anything that has less friction than skin (skin has like a TON of friction) will nigh-negate it completely and the bullet will slide off.

Again point is, it's not applicable. Atoms ain't taking universe busting energy and keep rotating, it's a misstranslation and at best an outlier. As monarch said it's just a "never ending amount of energy" though there is a LOT of difference between how much energy you possess and how much energy you apply which makes this not High 3-A.

 

[ProfessorLord]

LITERAL, EXACT TRANSLATION:

The spin created from horse and Johnny created infinite amount of rotational energy. It manipulates gravity, breaking dimensional barriers in the process (capable of lasting indefinitely)

It doesn't say "never ending amount of energy", it says it created an infinite amount of rotational energy. Stop twisting the statement just because you don't like it.

The fact of the matter is that the infinite rotation has infinite kinetic energy within the launched bullet. That is a high 3-A rating.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Except the term "infinite" was redefined by the manga to mean something never-ending rather than something High 3-A, so the literal translation no longer matters.

This isn't twisting the statement. This is using the manga's own explanations combined with the actual feats of Tusk 4 and Infinite Rotation to understand what it is talking about rather than just taking it at face value.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Except the term "infinite" was redefined by the manga to mean something never-ending rather than something High 3-A, so the literal translation no longer matters.
This isn't twisting the statement. This is using the manga's own explanations combined with the actual feats of Tusk 4 and Infinite Rotation to understand what it is talking about rather than just taking it at face value.

Basically the short of what we'r doing.

It has never shown to apply Infinite energy at once at someone, but it has an infinite/never ending amount. That makes it "not High 3-A".

 

[ProfessorLord]

They're describing the GOLDEN SPIRAL as never-ending. Go check every instance that you know of.

The infinite rotation and ACT4 are in another context. It doesnt't say that the infinite energy is used to make them spin forever. That's you twisting the statement again.

 

[TriforcePower1]

While I couldn't care less if Johnny becomes High 3-A or not, Monarch's explanation is just him inventing an unsupported interpretation to debunk one of the most explicit statements about infinite energy I've seen. And his interpretation is even contradicted by that same statement that separes as two different things the "infinite energy" part and the "it spins forever" part. Obviously, something that spins with infinite energy would never stop, so I don't even see how this is used to debunk it having infinite energy.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It's actually very supported. I've provided several scans that support it. And it isn't contradicted at all, as the quote does not separate the "infinite energy" part and the "it spins forever" part at all.

 

[TriforcePower1]

It's actually very supported. I've provided several scans that support it. And it isn't contradicted at all, as the quote does not separate the "infinite energy" part and the "it spins forever" part at all.

The scans were referring to the golden spiral, not to Johnny's attack.

Yes, it does. It first says that it has infinite energy and then that it spins forever. If, as you say, the first part was referring to the spin never ending, then the same thing would have been repeated twice. I think you can see the problem.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Yeah my problem in general with the against side is that an explanation is being invented rather than extrapolated.

Also the IR makes the opponent spin on the cellular level, not the atomic level.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Triforce, the Golden Spin is the key behind the infinite rotation. Perfectly spinning the bullets in the Golden Spiral is what Gyro says will allow them to achieve "power of infinity" - the infinite rotation - that the zepellis strive for. The Golden Spiral, the Golden Rectangle, and the infinite rotation are all directly connected.

The explanation says there is infinite energy, which is the explanation as to how it spins forver. That doesn't mean all that infinite energy is released as a form of attack all at once.

 

[ProfessorLord]

The golden spiral is still not the infinite rotation, it's a way to achieve it. If I describe the golden spiral as endless, it doesn't automatically mean the infinite rotation is endless. The quote you linked is irrelevant.

The golden spiral is the road, the infinite rotation is the reward at the end. Just because the road is endless doesn't mean the reward is endless.

If there is infinite kinetic energy in a bullet, it's a high 3-A bullet.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

The golden spiral is about making something that spins forever, which is what the infinite rotation is. Both of those things have been shown in my scans already. Your metaphors don't change that. Especially when that very same reward also repeatedly demonstrates properties of endlessness rather than infinite.

Throwing a battery that contains infinite energy at someone would not be high 3-A.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If there is infinite kinetic energy in a bullet, it's a high 3-A bullet.

No, energy comes only from the amout of energy released, not the amount of energy it has.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Throwing a battery that contains infinite energy at someone would not be high 3-A.

LOL! That example, 10/10.

 

[ProfessorLord]

The golden spiral is just a representation of a mathmatical ratio, it's not about making things spin forever. Following the ratio with a plot device that allows you to generate more energy than what is lost is what creates the infinite energy.

Golden spiral =/= infinite rotation

And a battery is potential chemical energy, the translation clearly says infinite rotational energy. That's infinite kinetic energy. That analogy does not work.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Or, to put it another way, a person with infinite stamina does not hit with High 3-A force with every single hit, because even if they have infinite energy to use, it's not all used at once.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

The Golden Spiral is exactly about making things spin forever PL. That's literally why they follow it and try to emulate it as perfectly as possible, so that they can make something that spins forever.

And the infinite rotation is the end result and achieval of that goal.

 

[ProfessorLord]

No, energy comes only from the amout of energy released, not the amount of energy it has.

Kinetic energy is energy that's EXHIBITED, not contained. You can't contain kinetic energy without transfering it to a different state. By virtue of having infinite kinetic energy, you are releasing infinite energy.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The golden spiral is just a representation of a mathmatical ratio, it's not about making things spin forever. Following the ratio with a plot device that allows you to generate more energy than what is lost is what creates the infinite energy.
Golden spiral =/= infinite rotation

And a battery is potential chemical energy, the translation clearly says infinite rotational energy. That's infinite kinetic energy. That analogy does not work.

The bullet is literally a spinning wheel that drains power from an infinite battery, so the example is pretty accurate.

 

[ProfessorLord]

The bullet is literally a spinning wheel that drains power from an infinite battery, so the example is pretty accurate.

YES! But following just like the fibonnaci sequence increases a value exponentially the larger it is, following the golden spiral gathers more energy the more you do so. Reaching the center means you've hit an infinitely large value.

Basically, Johnny builds up that rate of power drain to infinity by following the golden spiral.

 

[ProfessorLord]

The Golden Spiral is exactly about making things spin forever PL. That's literally why they follow it and try to emulate it as perfectly as possible, so that they can make something that spins forever.
And the infinite rotation is the end result and achieval of that goal.

No it's not, go search up golden spiral on google. Nothing about making objects or values spin forever.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

No it's not, go search up golden spiral on google. Nothing about making objects or values spin forever.

That's because I'm looking at the Golden Spiral as it is used in Jojo, not the real world meaning, which is what is actually important here.

 

[ProfessorLord]

False premise, you've said its about making things spin forever, hence the only reason they follow it is to make something that spins forever.

Wrong. The Golden Spiral (even in JoJo) is not about making something that spins forever. Find me the scan that shows Gyro or Ringo or anyone really saying that's what they use the golden spiral for.

 

[ProfessorLord]

If you want a numerical representation of how the golden spiral and infinite rotation work:

https://www.browserling.com/tools/fibonacci-numbers

Enter in a range of 1500. (even though there are infinite points intersecting at the center, 1500 is just where the calculator fails to go any higher.)

We'll assume Johnny starts with a value of 1 joules. By entering in the fibonnaci sequence, he's essentially begun emulating the golden spiral (as it's just a physical representation of the fibonnaci sequence).

As you can see as you reach the end of the number list his 1 joule has now reached a number that is larger than any other rational numbers, or in math terms, infinity. That is Johnny finishing the golden spiral.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I have already provided scans. That you refuse to understand them is not my problem. The scans clearly show Gyro explaining to Johnny what the golden spiral is and how they use it as the guide in order to achieve the the perfect spin.

 

[ProfessorLord]

The scans are useless since what you're suggesting has no correlatio . You just said the golden spin is dedicated to making things spin forever, yet fail to provide any instance where a character has actually said that.

Even after explaining the golden spiral's relation to energy and infinity, you ignore it and simply refute with what I can only describe as brick wall ignorance.

But again, I expect for you to simply point out something that seems like it could support your point, me to point out that it's not related at all, and for you to finish with another three sentences that amount to me being too stupid to understand. Bonus points if Bambu and Weekly kudos you.

 

[PaChi2]

Am I the only one tired of this?

 

[DMUA]

No

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Monarch have you been counting the number of people that support the downgrade?

 

[DMB_1]

Am I the only one tired of this?

No

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

@Monarch have you been counting the number of people that support the downgrade?

We're not doing this through votes apparently, so the staff members need to come together and make a decision.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Oh ok, makes sense, have you contacted them?

 

[PaChi2]

Oh ok, makes sense, have you contacted them?

Apparently there are no staff members aware of this thread. Huh.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No. I'm around. Just got nothing to say other than I, for now, agree with Monarch and am waiting to be impressed by the other side enough to change stance.

 

[PaChi2]

No. I'm around. Just got nothing to say other than I, for now, agree with Monarch and am waiting to be impressed by the other side enough to change stance.

Bruh, it was irony. Several of the staff have already participated in this thread.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

thought you were referring to the fact that nobody was really doing much

Also... bruh?

 

[Chartate101]

One quick thing: how can infinite energy be distributed over time? Earlier someone (Weekly maybe? Idk it was a green name) said that it was infinite energy over an unknown timeframe. But that just doesn't make sense. Way that infinite force was over the rest of Valentine's life. Lets be generous and say 60 years. Infinite energy over the course of years is still infinite energy any given point. You can't just divide infinity.

Anyway, I'm still pro High 3-A due to the translation of mugen