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Johnny Joestar and Gyro Zeppeli Downgrade

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How? Because of the concept of perfect energy efficiency. The idea is that an object in motion can perfectly reproduce its own energy forever. A good equivalence would be a ball rolling down a hill, producing enough energy to project itself up the next hill, only to repeat the process forever.

This is of course impossible in real life. You cannot maintain the same energy forever. However in fiction you 100% can do so.
 
@Chartate

Infinite energy over an infinite amount of time. It will stop after valentine's body is desintegrated from old age, but that's not cus the energy will end, it's cus there is nothing left to spin. The 8-B energy will be applied over an indefinite amount of time, making it infinite, though not high 3-A.
 
ProfessorLord said:
LITERAL, EXACT TRANSLATION:
ShiroyashaGinSan said:
The spin created from horse and Johnny created infinite amount of rotational energy. It manipulates gravity, breaking dimensional barriers in the process (capable of lasting indefinitely)
Click to expand...
It doesn't say "never ending amount of energy", it says it created an infinite amount of rotational energy. Stop twisting the statement just because you don't like it.
The fact of the matter is that the infinite rotation has infinite kinetic energy within the launched bullet. That is a high 3-A rating.
Click to expand...
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Still on the fence with this, although I've yet to read through the entire thread.
I feel like a lot of this is fixed if we treat it as hax as opposed to AP.
Click to expand...
I side with professor Lord that if we assign it AP then it's High 3-A

However, I definitely agree that we should just treat it as hax
 
The spin created from horse and Johnny created infinite amount of rotational energy. It manipulates gravity, breaking dimensional barriers in the process (capable of lasting indefinitely)
Haven't we been over stuff like this where infinite doesn't always mean literally "a number exceeding all numbers" energy, and can just be equatable to "endless"? Not to mention this quote also directly mentions lasting indefinitely.

Even if we assume it does (which I'm not convinced of this at all so far) create literally infinite energy, it doesn't strike with High 3-A potency for damn sure. It wouldn't allow them to battle a High 3-A being on even ground.
 
Wait

We already consider the spin to ignore durability.

I'm not too against changing the tier then; since it's practically staying the same.
 
The japanese part prety much says "it is in finite it never ends" with no "and" or anything in between the two, so it could easily be hat it is infinite, therefore it never ends.
 
It mentions it. It then elaborates on the point. Why would it not do that?
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Wait
We already consider the spin to ignore durability.

I'm not too against changing the tier then; since it's practically staying the same.
Click to expand...
Spin only ignores durability if you're trying to imbue someone with it. Otherwise it's primarily used for gaining energy. It's like hamon, it can ignore durability if you charge someone with it, but it's used for gaining energy.

That being said this infinite rotation nailshot example would be the latter, Johnny is using the spin to gather (infinite) energy into his nailshot. He then proceeds to shoot it. That is a blatant high 3-A attack.
 
I'm back

The scans are useless since what you're suggesting has no correlation . You just said the golden spin is dedicated to making things spin forever, yet fail to provide any instance where a character has actually said that.

Even after explaining the golden spiral's relation to energy and infinity, you ignore it and simply refute with what I can only describe as brick wall ignorance.

The Zepelli family has always strived to achieve the idea of infinity for the purpose of medicine and executio. What is this idea of infinity they are striving for? Let's look at context.

The way to achieve this "infinity" is through the golden rectangle / golden spiral / infinite scale (as it is referred to once while showing a diagram of the golden spin/rectangles below it). By spinning bullets in the golden ratio, it creates the golden spin. The golden spin is directly described as an endless rotation, twice. First in this scan, calling the golden spin a "spiral that continues forever"and second in this scan where it is stated that within the golden rectangles is a rotation that continues infinitely, clearly referring to that same golden spi . Note, this is a clear use of the word "infinite" to describe something that goes on forever.

Gyro outright tells Johnny that he needs to spin his nails in the golden spi (a spiral that continues forever) and that the only way to achieve the golden rotation is to use the golden rectangles (and obviously the endless spiral they create). Johnny later afirms that the only way to create infinite rotation is with the golden rectangle and the spiral pattern within it.

From this, it is a reasonable assumption that if you spin something in the pattern of a spiral that continues endlessly, then whatever you are spinning is also going to continue endlessly. Which all matches up with what we see of the infinite rotation's effects. Valentine freaks out about how long it's lasting and fears he's going to be buried alive by the spinning effect for eternity.

These scans are essentially every explanation we get on the infinite rotation and the golden spin. Is there anything in there about being able to hit things with force equivalent to infinite joules? No. Because that is not the purpose of the spin.

There is exactly one scan that states the bullets hold infinite energy. This description of Tusk 4. States there is "infinite rotational energy", and that the "damage is likely endless". However, Shiro gave the direct translation of the original japanese a while back, and it is:

The spin created from horse and Johnny created infinite amount of rotational energy. It manipulates gravity, breaking dimensional barriers in the process (capable of lasting indefinitely)

Nothing about endless damage, so let's throw that away if we hadn't already. Second, "infinite amount of rotational energy". Given the previous scans I've provided however, we can use context to show what "infinity" is actually defined as in Part 7. "Infinite rotation" is always directly linked to the golden spin. The power of infinity that the Zeppelis strive for is achievable only through spinning their steel balls in the the pattern of the golden spin, a spiral that continues forever. The spin within the golden rectangles that Johnny and Gyro use is directly referred to as "a rotation that continues infinitely", clearly using the word to describe something that continues forever. From this, it is clear that Part 7 defines "infinity" as "something that lasts forever" rather than "something within infinite power". And despite what PL would have you believe, this does not make the explanation redundant, it makes it a clarification and further supporting evidence on what it actually means to be "infinite" in Part 7.
 
Monarch

I don't want to create an another discussion, but you do realize you're literally taking how "infinite" is used in a localization and then you're applying it to Japanese? You know that they constantly change terms to make the dialogues feel more natural, right? I can get you tons of examples outside of JoJo that it works this way.

If I said "I slipped and I fell", everyone would get that I slipped, so I fell. No one would say that I fell and that I didn't slip, right? So why are we here just taking the "it lasts forever", without considering the cause "Infinite rotational energy"?
 
We are considering that.

I'm arguing that it is infinite rotation energy letting it last forever, but the definition of infinite being used is defined as endless, something that lasts forever, hence why it immediately follows up by saying it's indefinite.
 
The Zepelli family has always strived to achieve the idea of infinity for the purpose of medicine and executio. What is this idea of infinity they are striving for? Let's look at context.

The way to achieve this "infinity" is through the golden rectangle / golden spiral / infinite scale (as it is referred to once while showing a diagram of the golden spin/rectangles below it). By spinning bullets in the golden ratio, it creates the golden spin. The golden spin is directly described as an endless rotation, twice. First in this scan, calling the golden spin a "spiral that continues forever"and second in this scan where it is stated that within the golden rectangles is a rotation that continues infinitely, clearly referring to that same golden spi . Note, this is a clear use of the word "infinite" to describe something that goes on forever.

Right, they're describing the golden spiral as infinite, not the golden spin. The golden spiral is the real life representation of the fibonnaci sequence, yes. The golden spin is describing them using "The Spin" in accordance to the golden spiral.

They have yet to describe the infinite rotation as never-ending. And while yes, following the golden spiral with the spin will give you the infinite rotation, it doesn't mean the two are the same. The golden spiral is the road. The infinite rotation is the treasure at the end of the road. Just because the road is endless doesn't mean the treasure is endless as well.

So unfortunately, all your scans become redundant because they either talk about the golden spiral being endless (which is true) or they talk about the infinite rotation in an unrelated context (like Johnny saying it's the only way to defeat Diego). None of them have outright shown a character describing the infinite rotation as endless (and no, Valentine asking "when will it end" is not him saying the infinite rotation is filled with endless energy rather than mugen energy).

Nothing about endless damage, so let's throw that away if we hadn't already. Second, "infinite amount of rotational energy". Given the previous scans I've provided however, we can use context to show what "infinity" is actually defined as in Part 7.

No you cannot, because they're using endless in context of the golden spiral. They've never used endless in context of the infinite rotation. And let me remind you that the kanji used for infinity is mugen/þäíÚÖÉ

þäí meaning nothing or empty, ÚÖÉ meaning limit or restriction. Together they mean "no limit" or "unrestricted", not necessarily endless or never-ending as it would mean in English (lmao @Bambu).

Putting it back into proper context means Johnny has generated a limitless amount of rotational energy. Again, a blatant high 3-A statement in the original language it was given in.

"Infinite rotation" is always directly linked to the golden spin. The power of infinity that the Zeppelis strive for is achievable only through spinning their steel balls in the the pattern of the golden spin, a spiral that continues forever. The spin within the golden rectangles that Johnny and Gyro use is directly referred to as "a rotation that continues infinitely", clearly using the word to describe something that continues forever. From this, it is clear that Part 7 defines "infinity" as "something that lasts forever" rather than "something within infinite power". And despite what PL would have you believe, this does not make the explanation redundant, it makes it a clarification and further supporting evidence on what it actually means to be "infinite" in Part 7.

Already adressed this, IR is never referred to as a rotation that continues infinitely. The golden spiral, you bet. The IR? Still have yet to find a single scan.
 
This thread is just Professor taking jabs whilst people disagree with him at this point. I sits and I watches, I suppose.
 
Whatever you say bud. Like I said. I'm just listening to either side and, in my experience and all of the facts of this thread aside, the person who needs to personally attack the opponent is generally the one who doesn't have much standing. That's generally, of course, but hey, I'll wait and see if I can be surprised.
 
We've already adressed that a large majority agrees with my logic more. Just because you guys veto'd the whole voting thing doesn't mean you're once again arguing for the majority.
 
Popular opinion isn't how it works. Anyhow. Gonna go back to being a silent watcher for a bit to see if this can be turned around a bit.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Whatever you say bud. Like I said. I'm just listening to either side and, in my experience and all of the facts of this thread aside, the person who needs to personally attack the opponent is generally the one who doesn't have much standing. That's generally, of course, but hey, I'll wait and see if I can be surprised.
Click to expand...
Matt disagrees ovo
 
Alright. That

is dandy.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
At the end of this we may just need to pull an Accelorator and add a note that the statistics comes down to how you interpret the infinity statements, which from this thread alone, has proven to be a toss up.
I still say it should be unknown tho
Click to expand...
I agree with the Accelerator type of note.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
At the end of this we may just need to pull an Accelorator and add a note that the statistics comes down to how you interpret the infinity statements, which from this thread alone, has proven to be a toss up.
I still say it should be unknown tho
Click to expand...
Not totally opposed, but how would we treat it in battles?

"Johnny wins, he has infinite energy attack gg stomp"

"uhh no, I don't believe in that interpretation"

???
 
@Professor, it is very clear what is being said. Golden Spin and Rectangles and Infinite Rotation are all directly connected. That it doesn't say it outright doesn't make it wrong when literally everything that is said about it points towards it.
 
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