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JJK - The Speed Ceiling

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You need great cursed energy concentration and control to be able to pull it off.
They need concentration because their reactions don't scale to the timeframe as Arkenis has articulated, someone like Sukuna has one of the best understandings of Jujutsu in the series and has an extreme degree of CE control, if he had FTL reactions then landing Black Flash at will wouldn't be difficult.
 
They need concentration because their reactions don't scale to the timeframe as Arkenis has articulated, someone like Sukuna has one of the best understandings of Jujutsu in the series and has an extreme degree of CE control, if he had FTL reactions then landing Black Flash at will wouldn't be difficult.
the speed of the attack itself is unimportant, the important thing is the flow of ce that comes after. This is the reason why no sorcerer is able to do it at will
 
the speed of the attack itself is unimportant, the important thing is the flow of ce that comes after. This is the reason why no sorcerer is able to do it at will
We're not talking about attack speed, we're talking about reaction speed
 
Not a single Jujutsu sorcerer is able to do Black Flash at will. Therefore, when they do use Black Flash, it is not being done at will. It's as simple as that
It needs a physical contact and better control of CE.

Also Gege was using Lower speed ratings for previous volumes. It's ridiculous to even trying to stop Gege current statements despite Fanbook clearly mentioned about future contents might change.
This fan book is based on the contents of Jujutsu Kaisen up to volume 15. Please note that settings and other information may change depending on future developments in the story.


So are you guys trying to say Authors can't change their contents in Manga if they want just because they said something previously?
 
Gege not even once mentioned anything about Black flash can't be used at will when Gojo was spamming in Latest fight. Despite we seen Gege makes a side note on Yuji and Nanami case on every occasion. Kenjaku BH and Sukuna EMS speed came after Volume 15. As I said Trying to make everything based on what's written in Older volumes to try to hold back current feats is just.....

Well I can understand if future fights other characters gets any statement for being below Kenjaku KH or Sukuna EMS speed. But Currently proposing Rule is just wrong objectively.

Well i have said my part.
 
Gege not even once mentioned anything about Black flash can't be used at will when Gojo was spamming in Latest fight. Despite we seen Gege makes a side note on Yuji and Nanami case on every occasion. Kenjaku BH and Sukuna EMS speed came after Volume 15. As I said Trying to make everything based on what's written in Older volumes to try to hold back current feats is just.....

Well I can understand if future fights other characters gets any statement for being below Kenjaku KH or Sukuna EMS speed. But Currently proposing Rule is just

Well i have said my part.
"When Gojo was spamming in Latest fight"
He used it twice over different periods of time

He said it can't be used willingly when Yuji used it 4 times back to back.
Nanami said it can't be used willingly and he used it 4 times back to back.
 
"When Gojo was spamming in Latest fight"
He used it twice over different periods of time

He said it can't be used willingly when Yuji used it 4 times back to back.
Nanami said it can't be used willingly and he used it 4 times back to back.
The variable that determines ce flow speed is completely different from rs
 
"When Gojo was spamming in Latest fight"
He used it twice over different periods of time

He said it can't be used willingly when Yuji used it 4 times back to back.
Nanami said it can't be used willingly and he used it 4 times back to back.
This fan book is based on the contents of Jujutsu Kaisen up to volume 15. Please note that settings and other information may change depending on future developments in the story.
Ignored 🙏
So authors can't change their mind?
 
plus, most sorcerers have a mental block that doesnt allow them to make cursed energy flow as quickly as it should
The only person noted that had their cursed energy flow significantly slower in the whole story is Yuji when he was still a newbie and that was due to his natural physical talent unlike sorcerers who are used to reinforcing themselves with CE
 
What?

A fanbook limiting information and a manga stating information aren't the same damn thing.
It's not about just Fanbook
Please note that settings and other information may change depending on future developments in the story.
Even the things change based on story
Also Gojo used 4 BF never once mentioned anything about him struggling. Beside Sukuna and Mahogara had speed advantage. Without physical hit black flash wont even activate.
You want Gojo to concentrate on an opponent who is equal to his own speed and try to hit black flash continuously?
My whole point was Gege removed the conditions in Gojos fight.
Beside authors can always change their mind however they want it's about currently consistent or not.
If in future any inconsistency happens sure currently I don't see any.
 
It's not about just Fanbook

Even the things change based on story
Also Gojo used 4 BF never once mentioned anything about him struggling. Beside Sukuna and Mahogara had speed advantage. Without physical hit black flash wont even activate.
You want Gojo to concentrate on an opponent who is equal to his own speed and try to hit black flash continuously?
My whole point was Gege removed the conditions in Gojos fight.
Beside authors can always change their mind however they want it's about currently consistent or not.
If in future any inconsistency happens sure currently I don't see any.
There is nothing at all saying Gojo used Black Flash at will against Sukuna at all.

Sorry but you're making it harder for Dr. White to argue this saying a bunch of bs

"You want Gojo to concentrat-" Yuji did. Mahito did. Nanami did.

Authors changing their mind and you mfs trying to assume he changed his mind with no proof are not the same
 
I agree with this, let's be real

Speed never matters in vs battles, they are almost always speed equal
 
you're trying to cap jjks reaction speed off of black flash, i'm saying this is wrong, as ce flow is different from reaction speed.
Thankfully you've just proved to us this is not only about reaction speed but also ce flow. As the sorcerers need to flow their ce during the specific timeframe to activate BF, as we see this task is not able to be done at will and requires immense concentration. So thanks for bringing up this ce flow point.
 
Thankfully you've just proved to us this is not only about reaction speed but also ce flow. As the sorcerers need to flow their ce during the specific timeframe to activate BF, as we see this task is not able to be done at will and requires immense concentration. So thanks for bringing up this ce flow point.
cut the sarcasm. Mastering cursed energy flow requires a spiritual awakening of sorts, as todo taught yuji. There are active mental blocks throttling cursed energy flow. so even if the reaction speed is enough, the flow of cursed energy will not.
 
cut the sarcasm. Mastering cursed energy flow requires a spiritual awakening of sorts, as todo taught yuji.
And still needs them to flow their ce during the impact. This is not sarcasm, you brought up a good point and I'm showing you how it still remains within the limit of what sorcerers are not capable of.
 
With what gege has show in in the past, i think if he wants to make his characters clock lightning timing speeds and beyond, he's going to make it as explicit as possible.

The highschool sorcerers not being able to perceive a 0.01 second timeframe is pretty damning.

Because they'll eventually scale someway to high tiers like Kenny or Sukuna
 
I'm not completely against this since I don't agree with FTL JJK (Though I may change my mind depending on how I feel when I catch up with the manga), but the mechanics of Black Flash are weird. People are arguing it's hard to time because the character's don't possess the reaction time to reliably land it. However, that doesn't need to be the case. It's moreso about timing than it is reacting WITHIN that timeframe. To use Black Flash, one has to apply Cursed Energy to a punch within a millionth of a second. The problem? This implies that whenever someone uses Black Flash, the energy moves at MHS speeds. Why? Because Cursed Energy travels from center mass of a persons body to the end of their fist which would be over a meter of distance. Meaning Cursed Energy can easily reach MHS speeds, with the issue simply being the timing.

You have the ability to perceive one second, but timing energy that starts at center mass to be applied to your fist in exactly 1 second without the smallest discrepancy is difficult. Timing stuff isn't something humans can do super accurately without tools. We're not completely incapable of it, but it's not something we can do with 100% accuracy despite us being able to easily perceive 1 second. I think is supported by the fact that focus has made people time Black Flash more reliably (Nobara who was stated to land Black Flash after sharpening her focus due to the pain she was experiencing in the Death Painting fight);

I'd also like to note that someone like Yuji who is far slower than other characters who use Black Flash can use it far more reliably despite having a far inferior reaction time to someone like say Gojo. It's even noted that it seemed like he was using it at will. And I can only imagine that it's leading to Itadori being able to use Black Flash at will.

So while I'm not completely opposed to some speed caps (Albeit I think banning discussion of a speed rating EVER for a series that isn't even over yet is a bit much. Maybe a rule that bans discussion of it for arcs that have already long finished and have an established speed cap?

That's my two cents.
 
I'd also like to note that someone like Yuji who is far slower than other characters who use Black Flash can use it far more reliably despite having a far inferior reaction time to someone like say Gojo. It's even noted that it seemed like he was using it at will. And I can only imagine that it's leading to Itadori being able to use Black Flash at will.
Because he's the chosen one
 
(Though I may change my mind depending on how I feel when I catch up with the manga)
You probably won't. It's just one outlier feat, and let's be honest, it's very vague if Sukuna dodged it or not. FTL JJK is not a thing and likely won't be. Come on now, the verse barely hits Subsonic for the most part. They're obviously not moving at FTL speeds.
 
(Reread this OP two times for good measure)

I am proposing a discussion rule essentially barring the acceptance of calcs for JJK characters for anything mhs+ and higher.

So this is something we as JJK supporters have forgotten for a very long time, something Gege put in the manga pretty early and established to us several times how ridiculous accomplishing such a task is in the world. That is Black Flash. Black Flash is when an impact of curse energy is applied within 0.000001 seconds of a physical hit, space is distorted. This is important for the rest of the verse as it shows us that no one is capable of applying curse energy within a 0.000001 timeframe at will on multiple occasions. This greatly restricts how we scale the rest of the verse and how valid calcs that get mhs+ or higher are.

The reaction time of 0.000001 is 1 microsecond
The beginning of MHS reaction time is 29.4 microseconds
Hakari's lightning reaction is 1.70233 microseconds while his movement is 5.32061 microseconds
Sukuna's travel speed in Shibuya is 3.5337 microseconds

So these are all fine feats for the verse, anything higher and we should be discarding it such as weakened Sukuna dodging EMW, Kenjaku "reacting" to BH.
This is wrong as its equating the timeframe as for reaction speeds instead for what its actually for. The reason Black Flash is not something possible to do is because of the skill issue being able to lag cursed energy not the speed of it. Characters can be FTL, MFTL, or even infinite in speed but would still never be able to to perform black flash as they aren't able to actively lag curse energy behind their strikes. Yuji, the character closest to being able to use it at will is only so good because he was so bad at controlling cursed energy that is lagged behind, creating the divergent fist, and once he got better he lost the ability for a period of time.

Black flash is not an issue of the timeframe being to fast, but an issue of skill.

The series is inconsistent with its speed, yes, but this is not one of those instances.

This is also something to take into account heavily, as the basis for the mhs scaling of JJK is directly from Hakari's feat of reacting to "lightning", we later see Hakari isn't able to perceive a timeframe of 0.01s
That was a base Hakari watching the fight from a TV somewhere, while the Hakari that performed was in Jackpot mode in combat. they aren't the same ones, that Hakari isn't scaling to the lightning feat.
 
You probably won't. It's just one outlier feat, and let's be honest, it's very vague if Sukuna dodged it or not. FTL JJK is not a thing and likely won't be. Come on now, the verse barely hits Subsonic for the most part. They're obviously not moving at FTL speeds.
I say it mostly because I'm also of the opinion that most of the verse shouldn't be only subsonic. Or rather it shouldn't be enforced super strongly. But I'm not gonna argue about that here. I do with agree with FTL JJK seeming weird tho. The highest you'd see me putt JJK at offsite is like Sub-Rel maybe.
 
You probably won't. It's just one outlier feat, and let's be honest, it's very vague if Sukuna dodged it or not. FTL JJK is not a thing and likely won't be. Come on now, the verse barely hits Subsonic for the most part. They're obviously not moving at FTL speeds.
Laughs in Jojo's Bizarre Intonation

On a serious note, I feel like if people want to table the EM wave feat on the basis of them being of the opinion it's an outlier, I don't that. I think it's completely separate to try and proactively shoehorn in a verse based blackflash timing when a verse scrub like Nobara pulled it off (God rest her soul).
 
Laughs in Jojo's Bizarre Intonation
Moderators please kill this man.
I say it mostly because I'm also of the opinion that most of the verse shouldn't be only subsonic. Or rather it shouldn't be enforced super strongly. But I'm not gonna argue about that here. I do with agree with FTL JJK seeming weird tho. The highest you'd see me putt JJK at offsite is like Sub-Rel maybe.
But most part of the verse IS Subsonic. It's written in the manga.
 
Moderators please kill this man.

But most part of the verse IS Subsonic. It's written in the manga.
And I disagree with it. As I said in my previous comment. Not caught up with the manga, but was aware of the statements. Not gonna argue it here tho since I don't wanna derail and agree with the premise of this CRT at that (Well, not for the reasoning OF Black Flash, since Black Flash working entails that Cursed Energy travels through the body at MHS speeds).
 
What do you mean you disagree

It's canon brother, they're limited to this speed. There's nothing your disagreement can do. It is what it is.
 
What do you mean you disagree

It's canon brother, they're limited to this speed. There's nothing your disagreement can do. It is what it is.
It's explicitly why I mentioned I have different thoughts for their speed off-site. I treat it as any other case of death of the author where they write something that contradicts a bunch of feats that a five year old could tell is faster than those speeds earlier on. If you wanna discuss this, you can DM me, and we can talk about to tomorrow when my birthday is done and over with. But I'm not gonna derail a thread I agree with to talk about something unrelated I disagree with.
 
I'd also like to note that someone like Yuji who is far slower than other characters who use Black Flash can use it far more reliably despite having a far inferior reaction time to someone like say Gojo. It's even noted that it seemed like he was using it at will. And I can only imagine that it's leading to Itadori being able to use Black Flash at will.
If Yuji ends up being the first to do a Black Flash at will, we can handle that then, but atm I don't think the fact that it "seemed" like he did really means much in the grand scheme of things. At the end of the day, the point remains that no one can do it at will
 
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