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JJK - The Speed Ceiling

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Most of this is derailing.

The OP talks about the black flash timeframe

Unless there's something in the manga showing that timeframe contradicted, then idm
Dr._whiteee said:
Also, why are you applying the speed of application of jujutsu and making a direct equivocation to reaction speed? The two are independent things, in the same way my math calc speed or my ability to apply technique to my martial arts isn't a hardcap of my reaction speeds.
Click to expand...
It's a timeframe used to chart what timeframe fits in what speed bracket. For characters moving a meter in that timeframe it'd be easy to do black flash if you moved at MHS+ speeds.

This isn't primarily about reactions, the OP is just using the reaction table for the timeframe
 
Dr._whiteee said:
Anyway, this isn't really the thread for arguing about the LS speed.

Addressing the OP I would like answers to the following:


and why we are making a speed cap pre-emptively on a series that hasn't ended.
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I think the idea is that since BF requires one to time the gap betwen their physical strike and their CE application to 0.000001 second and no one can use BF at will, then no one has the perception speed on that level to time their strike with their CE

Anyhow i think it's fair to not apply this rule until after the series ends incase new feats/statements come out
 
KingTempest said:
The OP talks about the black flash timeframe

Unless there's something in the manga showing that timeframe contradicted, then idm

It's a timeframe used to chart what timeframe fits in what speed bracket. For characters moving a meter in that timeframe it'd be easy to do black flash if you moved at MHS+ speeds.

This isn't primarily about reactions, the OP is just using the reaction table for the timeframe
Click to expand...
Yeah I would still disagree with that notion. Black flash is more than just timing, it's also about application during said time. It's a skill based thing that requires mental and physical coordination.

Also, I do agree that a large chunk of the verse is in the subsonic+ to supersonic range, and BF is something rare in verse. The fact that Nobara and Gojo both have performed it subconsciously should already point out the large gap in reactions and that it's way more involved.

As such using this for a verse speed gap doesn't seem valid.
 
Black Flash argument to downplay JJk speed is completely based. It's not about speed it's about Cursed Energy concentration and connection working on the opponent. Unless you want to say Yuji > Sukuna in speed when Yuji can use BF Sukuna can't despite manga having feats for Sukuna having higher speed scaling than Yuji.

I will wait for @LaserPrecision to reply to this with explanation.

Anyway Disagree with this.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Calling it an attempt at downplay really is just unnecessarily poisoning this well so let’s not. Cool? Cool.
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I can agree with Naoya Subsonic and Mach 3 speed because they are consistent but the point here regarding Black flash argument is completely wrong. There are tons of faster characters than Yuji still can't land Blackflash. Only few characters were able to use that still they can't land it based on their will.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Black Flash argument to downplay JJk speed is completely based. It's not about speed it's about Cursed Energy concentration and connection working on the opponent. Unless you want to say Yuji > Sukuna in speed when Yuji can use BF Sukuna can't despite manga having feats for Sukuna having higher speed scaling than Yuji.
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Wait first whens it stated Sukuna can't do bf? And second the fact no has the concentration to perform BF at 1 microsecond at will proves the point that these characters do not operate at such a level.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Or maybe it’s because no one has the reactions to use Black Flash at will…
Click to expand...
Bruh already gave example. Sukuna Despite having speed power and fluid cursed energy control never landed Blackflash.
Arkenis said:
Wait first whens it stated Sukuna can't do bf? And second the fact no has the concentration to perform BF at 1 microsecond proves the point that these characters do not operate at such a level.
Click to expand...
  • Fanbook never mentioned he can do that
  • DA he could have done that against Gojo if he wanted as it's not innate technique.
  • Oh forgot Mahogara literally easily blocked BF from Gojo so OP arguments shouldn't be used in the first place.
36347724_784_1145_240248.webp

36347725_784_1145_232886.webp
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
  • Fanbook never mentioned he can do that
  • DA he could have done that against Gojo if he wanted as it's not innate technique.
  • Oh forgot Mahogara literally easily blocked BF from Gojo so OP arguments shouldn't be used in the first place.
Click to expand...
The fanbook which doesn't reveal Kenjaku has a gravity ct so he can't do it? Nice argument
And Maho is blocking Gojo not the timeframe bf happens LOL, reread the OP.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Him not being shown to use it yet doesn’t inherently mean he can’t do it, unless you wanna tell me he can’t but Yuji can
Click to expand...
Unless you tell me he was fighting for his life and had no intention of landing a Blackflash on Gojo.
I can list multiple characters who were faster than Yuji despite not having.
Jogo > Hanami and Mahito.
Still Jogo never stated to have mastered Black flash or capable of performing it. Despite having speed advantage over Mahito. Where Mahito can do that.
Despite Hanami having same speed as Yuji and Todo can't do Blackflash.
It's clear cut what OP proposing black flash solely based on speed is wrong.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
Also, why are you applying the speed of application of jujutsu and making a direct equivocation to reaction speed? The two are independent things, in the same way my math calc speed or my ability to apply technique to my martial arts isn't a hardcap of my reaction speeds.
Click to expand...
The application of cursed energy more akin to the act of moving an arm to punch rather than something logic based like calculating
 
Yeah ngl it sounds like the argument is trying to have its cake and eat it too. On one hand, you are using the rareness of blackflash to try and claim it's a speed bar, but on the other hand aren't acknowledging that it has been done, not only in succession, but by characters of varying tiers.

For context, Yuji, despite his amazing motor reflexes and despite recently awakening cursed energy, could not coordinate his CE with his own body. This is what caused his divergent fist in the first place and Yuji obviously didn't go MHS out of nowhere for that portion of the fight. After Todo teaches him, Yuji is able to not only land in sync, but land black flash and tie Nanami's record of blackflashes in succession. Todo also expressly predicted Yuji could do such and wouldn't join until Yuji landed it. This coordination was also brought up when Yuji reflected on Todo's lesson about CE control and how it lends to one's moves being harder to react to.

So it is clearly more about being in enough of a flow state to apply CE within that time frame and with precision, otherwise this thread doesn't really make sense, given it's a feat already accomplished by handful of people several times.
 
Giannysmag said:
0132-001.png
Click to expand...
So what's wrong with my sentence.
There Is Not A Single Jujutsu Sorcerer Who Can Use Black at will
Click to expand...
So they can't use it at will even if they wanted.
Also Nanami who has less reaction speed than Naobita can use Black flash but Naboita can't ?
Same goes for Naoya who are like Subsonic to Transonic at Max speed.
If you guys wants to argue based on its done by speed Should bring better examples than mixing up.

So Kyoto arc Yuji > Jogo, Naobito and Naoya in speed?
Good luck with that.
 
Before I stop replying to this thread I wanted to point out another mistake by OP.
These are not talking about Domain expansion speed. It's talking about Sure hit/Guaranteed hit activation speed not Domain expansion and reaction speed. Domain were expanded for 0.2s sure hit speed was what matters inside the domain which was never mentioned. So I request the OP to read the scans properly.
  • Next is Gojo and Mahito's amazing feat of leaving their Domain Expansion up for a total of 0.2 seconds, something considered sublime and fast, which even Todo couldn't react to. Kinda weird Todo didn't react to this but I think it's mainly due to him having to activate Simple Domain where as his 0.01 second reaction didn't involve that step.
  • We then get Hakari's domain activation surpassing Mahito's 0.2 seconds, safe assumption being 0.01 seconds, again something Kashimo could not react to, though likely due to needing to activate HWB.
Click to expand...
There is a time frame after domain is expanded in which Mahito needs to activate his cursed techniques. Unlike Sukuna and Gojo domain Mahito domain sure hit is not passive it should be manually Activated by Mahitos will. If you need scans i can send.
 
Giannysmag said:
What as your point here?
Click to expand...
No one can use Black flash at will that's my point. If it's based on Speed alone Naoya and Naobita should be spamming those.
There are multiple slower characters can perform Blackflash Despite not having same speed of higher speed than them.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
Yeah ngl it sounds like the argument is trying to have its cake and eat it too. On one hand, you are using the rareness of blackflash to try and claim it's a speed bar, but on the other hand aren't acknowledging that it has been done, not only in succession, but by characters of varying tiers.

For context, Yuji, despite his amazing motor reflexes and despite recently awakening cursed energy, could not coordinate his CE with his own body. This is what caused his divergent fist in the first place and Yuji obviously didn't go MHS out of nowhere for that portion of the fight. After Todo teaches him, Yuji is able to not only land in sync, but land black flash and tie Nanami's record of blackflashes in succession. Todo also expressly predicted Yuji could do such and wouldn't join until Yuji landed it. This coordination was also brought up when Yuji reflected on Todo's lesson about CE control and how it lends to one's moves being harder to react to.

So it is clearly more about being in enough of a flow state to apply CE within that time frame and with precision, otherwise this thread doesn't really make sense, given it's a feat already accomplished by handful of people several times.
Click to expand...
Would someone like Sukuna who has a far deeper understanding of Jujutsu than Yuji not treat landing Black Flash like child's play if he has FTL reactions, a MHS+ timeframe of a microsecond would literally be snail pace
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
No one can use Black flash at will that's my point. If it's based on Speed alone Naoya and Naobita should be spamming those.
There are multiple slower characters can perform Blackflash Despite not having same speed of higher speed than them.
Click to expand...
I think the point is none of them are close so the relative difference in their speeds is still insignificant to the overall point that: They're just not at that speed level at all

Right?
 
SunDaGamer said:
Would someone like Sukuna who has a far deeper understanding of Jujutsu than Yuji not treat landing Black Flash like child's play if he has FTL reactions, a MHS+ timeframe of a microsecond would literally be snail pace
Click to expand...
A someone like Todo who had better understanding than Yuji couldn't land Blackflash Despite having better CE control than Yuji. A someone like Geto who was a Sorcerer than Yuta couldn't use Blackflash Despite Yuta landing it with his half assed Cursed Energy control.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
No one can use Black flash at will that's my point. If it's based on Speed alone Naoya and Naobita should be spamming those.
There are multiple slower characters can perform Blackflash Despite not having same speed of higher speed than them.
Click to expand...
Naobito and Noaya wouldn't be spamming BF because they are capped at Transonic meaning they rae still too slow to percieve the 0.000001 sec timeframe, so the only way they can do it is through luck just like anyone
 
Quantu said:
I think the point is none of them are close so the relative difference in their speeds is still insignificant to the overall point that: They're just not at that speed level at all

Right?
Click to expand...
If speed is all that matters Yuji shouldn't be able to use the Blackflash. He used 4 BF Continuously. Where Gojo despite having more speed needed time lag to land BF. You see where this speed can be used for Black flash going around?
 
Giannysmag said:
Naobito and Noaya wouldn't be spamming BF because they are capped at Transonic meaning they rae still too slow to percieve the 0.000001 sec timeframe, so the only way they can do it is through luck just like anyone
Click to expand...
Why are you ignoring the fact Nanami reaction speed was even lesser than Naobita?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
If speed is all that matters Yuji shouldn't be able to use the Blackflash. He used 4 BF Continuously. Where Gojo despite having more speed needed time lag to land BF. You see where this speed can be used for Black flash going around?
Click to expand...
The fact that characters can't land one at will and require a high level of CE control and concentration to even have a chance of landing Black Flash already shows that none of them scale to that speed otherwise adequate CE control and reaction alone would be enough if they had MHS+ reactions, speed doesn't become a limiting factor until we start scaling people beyond MHS+
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
If speed is all that matters Yuji shouldn't be able to use the Blackflash. He used 4 BF Continuously. Where Gojo despite having more speed needed time lag to land BF. You see where this speed can be used for Black flash going around?
Click to expand...
you (technically) don't have to actively perceive a 1 microsecond timeframe to be do something within it, to him he was probably just thinking "i'll apply CE at the same time as my punch" and it HAPPENED to be within the timeframe, kinda like a frame-perfect input in a game. it's really hard for us to actively be paying attention to 1/30 or 1/60s timeframes, but it's possible to do things within them.
yuji just got lucky to hit 4x in a row, same as nanami
 
This isn't about the rareness, its about the timeframe. The varying tiers of characters doesn't matter and it doesn't matter if people have done it, the point is that the timeframe in which to do it is not readily accessible to high tiers like Gojo, the timeframe is what's required to activate BF and the concentration is what's needed to reach that. Given no one can stay at that level of concentration is what shows that the characters aren't at that level, they are getting lucky through concentrating. As we saw with Yuji he tried hitting BF but since he was not concentrating to such a level that's needed so he couldn't do it.


Another way we can look at this is that we take someone playing a game where they have to be precise with their timing to hit a certain target at an exact moment, unfortunately for this person (sorcerers) they can never quite do this accurately nor can they do this with readability. Instead this person (sorcerers) require themselves to focus greatly to the point they might just hit the target and even then given this concentration they still can not hit it at will.

If this doesn't explain it, I don't know what will.
 
I suppose this thread makes sense, but the accepted MHS speeds approaching the BF upper limit already does seem sus since I personally don't see Gege wanting Hakari to be .7 off black flashing in his sleep

mach 3 return?
 
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