JJK - The Speed Ceiling

[KingTempest]

Most of this is derailing.

The OP talks about the black flash timeframe

Unless there's something in the manga showing that timeframe contradicted, then idm

Also, why are you applying the speed of application of jujutsu and making a direct equivocation to reaction speed? The two are independent things, in the same way my math calc speed or my ability to apply technique to my martial arts isn't a hardcap of my reaction speeds.

It's a timeframe used to chart what timeframe fits in what speed bracket. For characters moving a meter in that timeframe it'd be easy to do black flash if you moved at MHS+ speeds.

This isn't primarily about reactions, the OP is just using the reaction table for the timeframe

 

[Giannysmag]

Anyway, this isn't really the thread for arguing about the LS speed.

Addressing the OP I would like answers to the following:


and why we are making a speed cap pre-emptively on a series that hasn't ended.

I think the idea is that since BF requires one to time the gap betwen their physical strike and their CE application to 0.000001 second and no one can use BF at will, then no one has the perception speed on that level to time their strike with their CE

Anyhow i think it's fair to not apply this rule until after the series ends incase new feats/statements come out

 

[Dr._whiteee]

The OP talks about the black flash timeframe

Unless there's something in the manga showing that timeframe contradicted, then idm

It's a timeframe used to chart what timeframe fits in what speed bracket. For characters moving a meter in that timeframe it'd be easy to do black flash if you moved at MHS+ speeds.

This isn't primarily about reactions, the OP is just using the reaction table for the timeframe

Yeah I would still disagree with that notion. Black flash is more than just timing, it's also about application during said time. It's a skill based thing that requires mental and physical coordination.

Also, I do agree that a large chunk of the verse is in the subsonic+ to supersonic range, and BF is something rare in verse. The fact that Nobara and Gojo both have performed it subconsciously should already point out the large gap in reactions and that it's way more involved.

As such using this for a verse speed gap doesn't seem valid.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Black Flash argument to downplay JJk speed is completely based. It's not about speed it's about Cursed Energy concentration and connection working on the opponent. Unless you want to say Yuji > Sukuna in speed when Yuji can use BF Sukuna can't despite manga having feats for Sukuna having higher speed scaling than Yuji.

I will wait for @LaserPrecision to reply to this with explanation.

Anyway Disagree with this.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Calling it an attempt at downplay really is just unnecessarily poisoning this well so let’s not. Cool? Cool.

 

[Nierre]

Black Flash argument to downplay JJk speed is completely based.

"based" or "biased"?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Unless you want to say Yuji > Sukuna in speed when Yuji can use BF Sukuna can't despite we having feats for Sukuna having higher speed scaling.

Also this is… completely missing the argument. Characters can use Black Flash, but no one - not even Gojo - can do so at will

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Also this is… completely missing the argument. Characters can use Black Flash, but no one - not even Gojo - can do so at will

Yeah that's the whole point. Having speed isn't gonna help character to land Black flash. Then why are you people using this as speed rating?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Or maybe it’s because no one has the reactions to use Black Flash at will…

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Calling it an attempt at downplay really is just unnecessarily poisoning this well so let’s not. Cool? Cool.

I can agree with Naoya Subsonic and Mach 3 speed because they are consistent but the point here regarding Black flash argument is completely wrong. There are tons of faster characters than Yuji still can't land Blackflash. Only few characters were able to use that still they can't land it based on their will.

 

[Arkenis]

Black Flash argument to downplay JJk speed is completely based. It's not about speed it's about Cursed Energy concentration and connection working on the opponent. Unless you want to say Yuji > Sukuna in speed when Yuji can use BF Sukuna can't despite manga having feats for Sukuna having higher speed scaling than Yuji.

Wait first whens it stated Sukuna can't do bf? And second the fact no has the concentration to perform BF at 1 microsecond at will proves the point that these characters do not operate at such a level.

 

[Deagonx]

This makes sense to me as well.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Or maybe it’s because no one has the reactions to use Black Flash at will…

Bruh already gave example. Sukuna Despite having speed power and fluid cursed energy control never landed Blackflash.

Wait first whens it stated Sukuna can't do bf? And second the fact no has the concentration to perform BF at 1 microsecond proves the point that these characters do not operate at such a level.

• Fanbook never mentioned he can do that
• DA he could have done that against Gojo if he wanted as it's not innate technique.
• Oh forgot Mahogara literally easily blocked BF from Gojo so OP arguments shouldn't be used in the first place.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Him not being shown to use it yet doesn’t inherently mean he can’t do it, unless you wanna tell me he can’t but Yuji can

 

[KingTempest]

Mahoraga did not block black flash from Gojo. He blocked a punch from Gojo.

Gojo does not move that much distance in under a microsecond when using Black Flash. He'd channel cursed energy in that timeframe. Not the same

 

[Arkenis]

• Fanbook never mentioned he can do that
• DA he could have done that against Gojo if he wanted as it's not innate technique.
• Oh forgot Mahogara literally easily blocked BF from Gojo so OP arguments shouldn't be used in the first place.

The fanbook which doesn't reveal Kenjaku has a gravity ct so he can't do it? Nice argument
And Maho is blocking Gojo not the timeframe bf happens LOL, reread the OP.

 

[Damage3245]

From what I've seen of Jujutsu Kaisen so far, this rule makes sense to me.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Him not being shown to use it yet doesn’t inherently mean he can’t do it, unless you wanna tell me he can’t but Yuji can

Unless you tell me he was fighting for his life and had no intention of landing a Blackflash on Gojo.
I can list multiple characters who were faster than Yuji despite not having.
Jogo > Hanami and Mahito.
Still Jogo never stated to have mastered Black flash or capable of performing it. Despite having speed advantage over Mahito. Where Mahito can do that.
Despite Hanami having same speed as Yuji and Todo can't do Blackflash.
It's clear cut what OP proposing black flash solely based on speed is wrong.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Black Flash isn’t done at will, this whole “intention” point means nothing…

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Black Flash isn’t done at will, this whole “intention” point means nothing…

It can't be done at will. It is not done at will. Both has different meanings.

 

[Giannysmag]

It can't be done at will. It is not done at will. Both has different meanings.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Also, why are you applying the speed of application of jujutsu and making a direct equivocation to reaction speed? The two are independent things, in the same way my math calc speed or my ability to apply technique to my martial arts isn't a hardcap of my reaction speeds.

The application of cursed energy more akin to the act of moving an arm to punch rather than something logic based like calculating

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Yeah ngl it sounds like the argument is trying to have its cake and eat it too. On one hand, you are using the rareness of blackflash to try and claim it's a speed bar, but on the other hand aren't acknowledging that it has been done, not only in succession, but by characters of varying tiers.

For context, Yuji, despite his amazing motor reflexes and despite recently awakening cursed energy, could not coordinate his CE with his own body. This is what caused his divergent fist in the first place and Yuji obviously didn't go MHS out of nowhere for that portion of the fight. After Todo teaches him, Yuji is able to not only land in sync, but land black flash and tie Nanami's record of blackflashes in succession. Todo also expressly predicted Yuji could do such and wouldn't join until Yuji landed it. This coordination was also brought up when Yuji reflected on Todo's lesson about CE control and how it lends to one's moves being harder to react to.

So it is clearly more about being in enough of a flow state to apply CE within that time frame and with precision, otherwise this thread doesn't really make sense, given it's a feat already accomplished by handful of people several times.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

So what's wrong with my sentence.

There Is Not A Single Jujutsu Sorcerer Who Can Use Black at will

So they can't use it at will even if they wanted.
Also Nanami who has less reaction speed than Naobita can use Black flash but Naboita can't ?
Same goes for Naoya who are like Subsonic to Transonic at Max speed.
If you guys wants to argue based on its done by speed Should bring better examples than mixing up.

So Kyoto arc Yuji > Jogo, Naobito and Naoya in speed?
Good luck with that.

 

[Giannysmag]

So what's wrong with my sentence.

It can't be done at will. It is not done at will. Both has different meanings.

What as your point here?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Before I stop replying to this thread I wanted to point out another mistake by OP.
These are not talking about Domain expansion speed. It's talking about Sure hit/Guaranteed hit activation speed not Domain expansion and reaction speed. Domain were expanded for 0.2s sure hit speed was what matters inside the domain which was never mentioned. So I request the OP to read the scans properly.

• Next is Gojo and Mahito's amazing feat of leaving their Domain Expansion up for a total of 0.2 seconds, something considered sublime and fast, which even Todo couldn't react to. Kinda weird Todo didn't react to this but I think it's mainly due to him having to activate Simple Domain where as his 0.01 second reaction didn't involve that step.
• We then get Hakari's domain activation surpassing Mahito's 0.2 seconds, safe assumption being 0.01 seconds, again something Kashimo could not react to, though likely due to needing to activate HWB.

There is a time frame after domain is expanded in which Mahito needs to activate his cursed techniques. Unlike Sukuna and Gojo domain Mahito domain sure hit is not passive it should be manually Activated by Mahitos will. If you need scans i can send.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

What as your point here?

No one can use Black flash at will that's my point. If it's based on Speed alone Naoya and Naobita should be spamming those.
There are multiple slower characters can perform Blackflash Despite not having same speed of higher speed than them.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Yeah ngl it sounds like the argument is trying to have its cake and eat it too. On one hand, you are using the rareness of blackflash to try and claim it's a speed bar, but on the other hand aren't acknowledging that it has been done, not only in succession, but by characters of varying tiers.

For context, Yuji, despite his amazing motor reflexes and despite recently awakening cursed energy, could not coordinate his CE with his own body. This is what caused his divergent fist in the first place and Yuji obviously didn't go MHS out of nowhere for that portion of the fight. After Todo teaches him, Yuji is able to not only land in sync, but land black flash and tie Nanami's record of blackflashes in succession. Todo also expressly predicted Yuji could do such and wouldn't join until Yuji landed it. This coordination was also brought up when Yuji reflected on Todo's lesson about CE control and how it lends to one's moves being harder to react to.

So it is clearly more about being in enough of a flow state to apply CE within that time frame and with precision, otherwise this thread doesn't really make sense, given it's a feat already accomplished by handful of people several times.

Would someone like Sukuna who has a far deeper understanding of Jujutsu than Yuji not treat landing Black Flash like child's play if he has FTL reactions, a MHS+ timeframe of a microsecond would literally be snail pace

 

[Quantu]

No one can use Black flash at will that's my point. If it's based on Speed alone Naoya and Naobita should be spamming those.
There are multiple slower characters can perform Blackflash Despite not having same speed of higher speed than them.

I think the point is none of them are close so the relative difference in their speeds is still insignificant to the overall point that: They're just not at that speed level at all

Right?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Would someone like Sukuna who has a far deeper understanding of Jujutsu than Yuji not treat landing Black Flash like child's play if he has FTL reactions, a MHS+ timeframe of a microsecond would literally be snail pace

A someone like Todo who had better understanding than Yuji couldn't land Blackflash Despite having better CE control than Yuji. A someone like Geto who was a Sorcerer than Yuta couldn't use Blackflash Despite Yuta landing it with his half assed Cursed Energy control.

 

[Giannysmag]

No one can use Black flash at will that's my point. If it's based on Speed alone Naoya and Naobita should be spamming those.
There are multiple slower characters can perform Blackflash Despite not having same speed of higher speed than them.

Naobito and Noaya wouldn't be spamming BF because they are capped at Transonic meaning they rae still too slow to percieve the 0.000001 sec timeframe, so the only way they can do it is through luck just like anyone

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I think the point is none of them are close so the relative difference in their speeds is still insignificant to the overall point that: They're just not at that speed level at all

Right?

If speed is all that matters Yuji shouldn't be able to use the Blackflash. He used 4 BF Continuously. Where Gojo despite having more speed needed time lag to land BF. You see where this speed can be used for Black flash going around?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Naobito and Noaya wouldn't be spamming BF because they are capped at Transonic meaning they rae still too slow to percieve the 0.000001 sec timeframe, so the only way they can do it is through luck just like anyone

Why are you ignoring the fact Nanami reaction speed was even lesser than Naobita?

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Black Flash is not a speed thing, but a concentration thing. Using this to cap the verse is asinine

 

[SunDaGamer]

If speed is all that matters Yuji shouldn't be able to use the Blackflash. He used 4 BF Continuously. Where Gojo despite having more speed needed time lag to land BF. You see where this speed can be used for Black flash going around?

The fact that characters can't land one at will and require a high level of CE control and concentration to even have a chance of landing Black Flash already shows that none of them scale to that speed otherwise adequate CE control and reaction alone would be enough if they had MHS+ reactions, speed doesn't become a limiting factor until we start scaling people beyond MHS+

 

[SeijiSetto]

If speed is all that matters Yuji shouldn't be able to use the Blackflash. He used 4 BF Continuously. Where Gojo despite having more speed needed time lag to land BF. You see where this speed can be used for Black flash going around?

you (technically) don't have to actively perceive a 1 microsecond timeframe to be do something within it, to him he was probably just thinking "i'll apply CE at the same time as my punch" and it HAPPENED to be within the timeframe, kinda like a frame-perfect input in a game. it's really hard for us to actively be paying attention to 1/30 or 1/60s timeframes, but it's possible to do things within them.
yuji just got lucky to hit 4x in a row, same as nanami

 

[SunDaGamer]

Black Flash is not a speed thing, but a concentration thing. Using this to cap the verse is asinine

It's already been addressed multiple times that a character with FTL reactions should be capable of fulfilling a MHS+ timeframe at will

 

[Arkenis]

This isn't about the rareness, its about the timeframe. The varying tiers of characters doesn't matter and it doesn't matter if people have done it, the point is that the timeframe in which to do it is not readily accessible to high tiers like Gojo, the timeframe is what's required to activate BF and the concentration is what's needed to reach that. Given no one can stay at that level of concentration is what shows that the characters aren't at that level, they are getting lucky through concentrating. As we saw with Yuji he tried hitting BF but since he was not concentrating to such a level that's needed so he couldn't do it.


Another way we can look at this is that we take someone playing a game where they have to be precise with their timing to hit a certain target at an exact moment, unfortunately for this person (sorcerers) they can never quite do this accurately nor can they do this with readability. Instead this person (sorcerers) require themselves to focus greatly to the point they might just hit the target and even then given this concentration they still can not hit it at will.

If this doesn't explain it, I don't know what will.

 

[Quantu]

I suppose this thread makes sense, but the accepted MHS speeds approaching the BF upper limit already does seem sus since I personally don't see Gege wanting Hakari to be .7 off black flashing in his sleep

mach 3 return?

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

It's already been addressed multiple times that a character with FTL reactions should be capable of fulfilling a MHS+ timeframe at will

i say its not a speed thing

you bring up speed

uhwa

You need great cursed energy concentration and control to be able to pull it off.