JJK - Sukuna Fear CRT

[Arkenis]

So right now Sukuna has

• Fear Manipulation (His presence causes people and curses to feel inferior to him, forcing them to act instinctively to survive[15])

This should be Social Influencing and given the update to social influencing he would fall under

Spoiler

Instigating Fear: Characters who can in some way or the other, instigate fear and affect thinking or confidence of another person in their verse. The ways the characters use may include usage of position or a reputation in their verse, having an appearance or a certain feature in their appearance which other characters in the verse perceive as creepy or scary and easily scared by it or driving other characters into situations where they are set to feel fear, etc. This differs from fear manipulation, as this doesn't involve any supernatural factor and is escapable through simple willpower or confidence.

Social Position and Reputation: Characters who possess a high level of position in society or are heavily respected in their setting, which allows them to control an individual or a group of people. In cases where a character in question with high position or reputation is being used by another person behind the shadows, the character doesn't qualify for having this kind of influencing.

Focusing on what I bolded, we see characters like Uro are terrified by his strength from afar, yet Ryu is not. This demonstrates that even people on similar level can have different reactions to Sukuna's strength. In Uro's case she likely is going through ptsd, remembering what he did in the past to her as she has referred to him as a calamity. Ryu goes straight to facing Sukuna, even going to him and getting right in front of him, which shows Ryu's willpower or confidence.

Spoiler: Panels

Now with Jogo and the girls we see that its not Sukuna's presence that terrifies them, its how evil his strength feels.

The girls question if breathing near him is okay, its more that they are scared by Sukuna and how ruthless he can be. This isn't him supernaturally making them scared, which is what fear manip is about.
Them kneeling down also doesn't mean much. Its similar to when a bully makes a kid tense up or curl up from how intimidating they are with their words or presence or how kids tense up when their parents are mad at them.

I don't think I need to mention it but Sukuna's reputation is enormous within the world, everyone knows how dangerous he is, everyone knows he's ruthless and kills without warning, it makes sense Jogo and the girls are fearful due to what they've heard of him.

Just another piece of evidence, all the sorcerers in recent chapters never show any debilitating fear, tense up or move instinctively, they are all brave and ready to fight him, this shows us even those who are far weaker than him don't get scared by him.

So Sukuna should have social influencing instead.

Spoiler: New Description

Social Influencing & Aura (Instigating Fear & Reputation - Sukuna's reputation as the king of curses[9] shows an extreme ability to command[10] those around just off his overwhelmingly evil strength. Sorcerers like Uro who have fought him in the past succumb to his strength and was reduced to a defenseless and scared state[11] likely remembering Sukuna's past ruthlessness as a calamity)

Agree: Damage
Disagree: Duedate

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Ya.

 

[Arkenis]

Mhm

 

[Ped2018]

Great arguments from both sides

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Agree

(Both Gojo and Sukuna are overhyped AF for no reason.)

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

oh

 

[Arkenis]

bump

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Should be listed as Aura instead or in addition.

 

[Arkenis]

bump

 

[Duedate8898]

I'm not exactly sure on this one.

Everyone not being afraid when met with Sukuna's aura can work just through these characters have resistance to fear manipulation, because that's generally how we deal with it.

However, there is something to be said about how its really the feel of Sukuna's cursed energy that seems to cause this fear as well. It's not the power that scares Jogo or the girls nor Sukuna's reputation, we've seen Jogo distinguishing this since he calls up Gojo's CE. It's evillness of the energy as you outlined above. The fear is a direct result of the supernatural factor of Sukuna's cursed energy, nothing else it seems.

I feel like Fear Manipulation is still the most accurate way to showcase what's going on.

I disagree

 

[Arkenis]

Everyone not being afraid when met with Sukuna's aura can work just through these characters have resistance to fear manipulation, because that's generally how we deal with it.

My main issue is that we're now just slapping on fear resistance for resisting fear of the strongest sorcerer to people vastly inferior to him, how that makes sense I have no idea. Fear resistance should be something demonstrated not assumed.

However, there is something to be said about how its really the feel of Sukuna's cursed energy that seems to cause this fear as well. It's not the power that scares Jogo or the girls nor Sukuna's reputation, we've seen Jogo distinguishing this since he calls up Gojo's CE. It's evillness of the energy as you outlined above. The fear is a direct result of the supernatural factor of Sukuna's cursed energy, nothing else it seems.

Fear manip page says this would be social influencing.

It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors.

Sukuna can only inflict this fear due to the feel of his strength, without that strength there would be no fear.

 

[Duedate8898]

Fear manip page says this would be social influencing.

It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors.

Sukuna can only inflict this fear due to the feel of his strength, without that strength there would be no fear.

But he isn't terrifying them through strength is the thing here, Jogo isn't saying he's afraid because Sukuna's so strong, he's afraid because Sukuna's strength is so evil.

And in fact, let's look at you talking about Ryu. Because you say he isn't afraid, but he clearly is. All throughout Chapter 216, when he's dealing with Sukuna he's constantly sweating, his expression is set afraid. The thing is, not everyone responds to fear in the same way. So this really contradicting Fear Manipulation

Spoiler: Ryu Stuff

https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_216_bath_012.png

https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_216_bath_014.png
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_216_bath_017.png

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Do we have a feat of Sukuna scaring someone stronger than him ?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I'm not exactly sure on this one.

Everyone not being afraid when met with Sukuna's aura can work just through these characters have resistance to fear manipulation, because that's generally how we deal with it.

However, there is something to be said about how its really the feel of Sukuna's cursed energy that seems to cause this fear as well. It's not the power that scares Jogo or the girls nor Sukuna's reputation, we've seen Jogo distinguishing this since he calls up Gojo's CE. It's evillness of the energy as you outlined above. The fear is a direct result of the supernatural factor of Sukuna's cursed energy, nothing else it seems.

I feel like Fear Manipulation is still the most accurate way to showcase what's going on.

I disagree

Yeah it’s more congruent with “Aura”

 

[Damage3245]

Everyone not being afraid when met with Sukuna's aura can work just through these characters have resistance to fear manipulation, because that's generally how we deal with it.

I don't think that the best approach is to assume that these characters have some underlying ability that allows them to resist feeling fear as opposed to just... they're not feeling afraid.

I'm in favor of the OP.

 

[Arkenis]

But he isn't terrifying them through strength is the thing here, Jogo isn't saying he's afraid because Sukuna's so strong, he's afraid because Sukuna's strength is so evil.

Yeah I get that but the thing is that we don't see this evilness replicated at 1 finger, 2 finger, 3 finger, this is only shown at 15. This evilness only comes with the strength Sukuna has at this level basically, he isn't always giving off this evilness.

And in fact, let's look at you talking about Ryu. Because you say he isn't afraid, but he clearly is. All throughout Chapter 216, when he's dealing with Sukuna he's constantly sweating, his expression is set afraid. The thing is, not everyone responds to fear in the same way. So this really contradicting Fear Manipulation

"not everyone responds to fear in the same way"
That isn't relevant, what my crt seeks to address is what that fear does to the person and the extent of it, in this instance Ryu doesn't move out the way, unlike with Jogo and the twins when Sukuna says "holding your heads a little too high" they go and lower themselves. If this was truly just fear manipulation then Sukuna's fear would command them all the same but it doesn't. And I wouldn't say its fear, he's more nervous of the amount of ce Sukuna has than fearful of it.


I'm fine with it being aura and social influence given Uro's case than flat out fear hax which would imply it could be done to anyone. And honestly it may seem random but the idea of a bunch of sorcerers just randomly having fear resistance to the strongest around doesn't really sit well with me nor would it make sense in the story.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

I don't think that the best approach is to assume that these characters have some underlying ability that allows them to resist feeling fear

I mean Cursed spirits are shown to create an immense pressure that causes fear but sorcerers are unaffected in most cases

I agree with Duedate

 

[Arkenis]

I mean Cursed spirits are shown to create an immense pressure that causes fear but sorcerers are unaffected in most cases

Very basic fear resistance, one that is more of an aura than fear manip itself. Sukuna's is a bit different and isn't due to him being a curse.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Very basic fear resistance, one that is more of an aura than fear manip itself. Sukuna's is a bit different and isn't due to him being a curse.

They shouldnt have resistance to fear manip then, no?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Sukuna's strength is so evil.

Demeanor?

 

[Sir_sun_man]

I'm with duedate on this one.

also

Ryu is very much afraid I mean look at the guy he is sweating bullets and has the most unsure look we've seen from him and that is after he has fought against rika, yuta and uro, had his own blast redirected at him and came inches away from death in his fight with yuta.

And yet here we have him sweating bullets from just feeling the presence of sukuna from miles away and when he is up close and personal he looks like as unsure and nervouse as it gets, I mean just look at this face.

The guy stared into the face of certain death against yuta and had a smile on his face and here against sukuna he is for a lack of a more appropriate term "******** bricks"

also as for the current team of sorceres not feeling this same fear it can be attributed to a number of factors, one sukuna is at less than half his current CE (and likely output) meaning his presence is lessened, two they've been training for this specific situation for the past month, three the only ones that have been properly going at sukuna are kashimo, yuta and yuji the others have been brushed or slapped aside whenever we see them so its questionable if they are not afraid (which they are cuse kusakabe is still very much not into trying to fight sukuna and all) and the main group that has fought sukuna had CE levels approaching his current decreased state or full on soaked in his very own CE in yuji's case with yuji also having delt with sukuna's presence for months and the forth and final point

Sukuna is currently bored out of his mind so his CE presence is a beit wavering or how uraume puts it "tenuous" meaning that the same fear aura he radiates is lessened to an extent meaning its effects should not be as prominant as they usually are.

 

[Arkenis]

They shouldnt have resistance to fear manip then, no?

Just not to fear manip itself, but fear derived from their aura. Even during the Jogo scene not everyone can feel this fear. But this isn't very relevant since this is about sorcerers not curses.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Demeanor?

No?

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Just not to fear manip itself, but fear derived from their aura. Even during the Jogo scene not everyone can feel this fear. But this isn't very relevant since this is about sorcerers not curses.

I mean if the aura has fear effects and people can resist said effects that is fear manip resistence and fear manip in general just passive instead of active.

and that is just cursed energy to a T.

 

[Arkenis]

Sukuna is currently bored out of his mind so his CE presence is a beit wavering or how uraume puts it "tenuous" meaning that the same fear aura he radiates is lessened to an extent meaning its effects should not be as prominant as they usually are.

These two things don't correlate at all. Sukuna had no reason to be engaged during his Ryu and Uro case yet still generated an aura. And I am not only talking about while they fight Sukuna, but during Gojo vs Sukuna as well, everyone is close by during that we see Kashimo come up on a building just after Gojo's death.

 

[Arkenis]

I mean if the aura has fear effects and people can resist said effects that is fear manip resistence and fear manip in general just passive instead of active.

No. fear off an aura is not fear manipulation. That is a byproduct of the aura's feel. It's an effect not a direct manipulation basically. It's like saying one has ice manipulation because they can lower the temperature of water to freezing point, they'd have ice manip as a byproduct of their temp manip.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

These two things don't correlate at all. Sukuna had no reason to be engaged during his Ryu and Uro case yet still generated an aura. And I am not only talking about while they fight Sukuna, but during Gojo vs Sukuna as well, everyone is close by during that we see Kashimo come up on a building just after Gojo's death.

I mean we are flat out stated that his CE waves are tenuous much like his opponents meaning his ouput and aura of CE is not as potent as it would be other wise (not even counting the massive CE loss and output loss)

As for why it was fully engaged in Ryu's case, story beats; sukuna just got out of the "bath" and is finally able to exibit full control of over a body so he is more than likely extatic meaning his CE wave's will likely be above his usual relaxed output.

two we don't know how far away the sorcer's actaully where, the only thing we see of kashimo entering the battle is this

we don't know if their base s under ground, in a building within the battlefield (highly unlikely) or just far away from the fight in general, since what ever that thing kashimo is jumping off of doesn't exactly look like your average building enterence and more like a swere grate and unless we want to give sukuna's aura the ability to pass through the ground I don't think them watching from a distance and likely undreground really contradicts the fear manip at all.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

No. fear off an aura is not fear manipulation. That is a byproduct of the aura's feel. It's an effect not a direct manipulation basically. It's like saying one has ice manipulation because they can lower the temperature of water to freezing point, they'd have ice manip as a byproduct of their temp manip.

Fear Manipulation, otherwise known as Fear Inducement is the ability in which to inflict a level of "fear" on the target using supernatural means. Depending on the severity of the fear, the user can use this to manipulate the target, incapacitate them or simply drive them insane

It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors.

here we have Ryu a man who is a battle junky and has never seen or felt sukuna's presence before:

being afraid and nervouse from nothing more than sukuna's presence (and before you bring up strength, sukuna here is only 50% above yuta (in CE amount) who Ryu was having the time of his life with .
That my good fellow is passive fear manip similar to how Ren works in Hunter x Hunter or how yujiro passively scares people with his presence in baki (both are widely agreed to be types of fear manip by both staff and users and work pretty much identically to sukuna's presence scaring the daylights out of people) .

 

[Arkenis]

I mean we are flat out stated that his CE waves are tenuous much like his opponents meaning his ouput and aura of CE is not as potent as it would be other wise (not even counting the massive CE loss and output loss)

As for why it was fully engaged in Ryu's case, story beats; sukuna just got out of the "bath" and is finally able to exibit full control of over a body so he is more than likely extatic meaning his CE wave's will likely be above his usual relaxed output.

two we don't know how far away the sorcer's actaully where, the only thing we see of kashimo entering the battle is this

You're supporting my bigger point here. Sukuna's fear aura is due to power, not the feel alone. If his ce waves became tenuous and now no one is fearful then it means the fear is based off his power. thus he shouldn't have fear manip.

we don't know if their base s under ground, in a building within the battlefield (highly unlikely) or just far away from the fight in general, since what ever that thing kashimo is jumping off of doesn't exactly look like your average building enterence and more like a swere grate and unless we want to give sukuna's aura the ability to pass through the ground I don't think them watching from a distance and likely undreground really contradicts the fear manip at all.

I am almost certain that that is Gakuen Cocoon Tower, in Shinjuku. They are stationed there, and Gojo and Sukuna fought maybe a couple hundred meters away.

 

[Arkenis]

on the target using supernatural means

Sukuna isn't using anything here. It's a byproduct of his aura. Fear manip involves directly manipulating the fear, Sukuna doesn't do that. What he does comes from his strength and how it feels, aka Aura and Social Influencing.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

You're supporting my bigger point here. Sukuna's fear aura is due to power, not the feel alone. If his ce waves became tenuous and now no one is fearful then it means the fear is based off his power. thus he shouldn't have fear manip.

again its not off power as sukuna's presence is based on CE amount and at that point he only had 15 finger or 50% more CE than yuta whom ryu reacted to this way:

and met head on this way:

and all of that despite yuta having a "creepy presence" and having more than half of 15 finger sukuna's total CE pool

I am almost certain that that is Gakuen Cocoon Tower, in Shinjuku. They are stationed there, and Gojo and Sukuna fought maybe a couple hundred meters away.

that is no tower due to it being close to the ground oh and the purple gojo fired off would've turned them to mulch if they where in there (although if it is we don't know if thats where kashimo got out or if he was just jumping of building since he was leaping 200+ meters pretty casually

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Sukuna isn't using anything here. It's a byproduct of his aura. Fear manip involves directly manipulating the fear, Sukuna doesn't do that. What he does comes from his strength and how it feels, aka Aura and Social Influencing.

which is still widelly agreed to be fear manip just of passive nature through supernatural means since ya know nothing natural about aura, if ya want to argue against aura that causes people to actually be scared not being fear manip, you need to go against about 40% of all fear manip users on the wiki starting with the big ones like hunter x hunter or baki with yujiro (who's aura causes fear which would you look at that :

• Fear Manipulation (Yujiro's aura incites fear at the cellular level, can passively incite fear in even a hardened veteran soldier, can make fighters feel as though they're being stabbed)

counts as fear manipulation and is widely agreed by the staff and people alike to be a practical aplication of passive fear manip which is basically a one to one with sukuna).

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

How did kid Gojo scare those two assassins ?

 

[Sir_sun_man]

How did kid Gojo scare those two assassins ?

presence or aura in other terms

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

presence or aura in other terms

Does it count as fear manipulation ?

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Oh and almost forgot

novel statements that are canon to JJK:

oh and the section on cursed spirits on this very wiki:

• Aura (Responsible for - Fear Manipulation and Perception Manipulation - When fighting a strong grade 2 curse, both Kairi and Mai note the effects of the cursed spirit's aura to make them tremble, lose spirit, and become frightened. This aura is mentioned as capable of making normal people into a nightmarish state. This aura is described as foul and scorching)

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Does it count as fear manipulation ?

yep

 

[Arkenis]

again its not off power as sukuna's presence is based on CE amount and at that point he only had 15 finger or 50% more CE than yuta whom ryu reacted to this way:

That's why I have it as social influence and aura....

that is no tower due to it being close to the ground oh and the purple gojo fired off would've turned them to mulch if they where in there

Bruh what??? Please tell me you're joking.

which is still widelly agreed to be fear manip just of passive nature through supernatural means since ya know nothing natural about aura, if ya want to argue against aura that causes people to actually be scared not being fear manip, you need to go against about 40% of all fear manip users on the wiki starting with the big ones like hunter x hunter or baki with yujiro (who's aura causes fear which would you look at that :

counts as fear manipulation and is widely agreed by the staff and people alike to be a practical aplication of passive fear manip which is basically a one to one with sukuna.

When do you think the last time hxh and baki's fear hax have been reviewed? You're showing me old pages who could probably use a lot of rework lmao.

And Yujiro's fear hax has an entire explanation and comparison for it and even has him inciting fear in cells lmao. You're just arguing to argue at this point, these aren't even comparable demonstration of fear aura, especially not hxh auras which show a far greater inducement of fear.

How did kid Gojo scare those two assassins ?

They were scared because of who Gojo is.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Bruh what??? Please tell me you're joking.

what exactly is that building called

 

[Sir_sun_man]

That's why I have it as social influence and aura....

Ryu didn't know sukuna at the time and aura also falls under fear manip again

Bruh what??? Please tell me you're joking.

actually now that you brough it closer yeah thats not the tower it doesn't half the mid riff split.

When do you think the last time hxh and baki's fear hax have been reviewed? You're showing me old pages who could probably use a lot of rework lmao.

And Yujiro's fear hax has an entire explanation and comparison for it and even has him inciting fear in cells lmao. You're just arguing to argue at this point, these aren't even comparable demonstration of fear aura, especially not hxh auras which show a far greater inducement of fear.

not to long ago actually hunter x hunter had its big hax revisions about half a year ago and baki has been constatly having CRT's about pages during last summer.

They were scared because of who Gojo is.

They didn't even know him, he was a child back then.