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JJK - Domain's PN

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Arkenis

Arkenis

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So it's kinda been already discussed in the JJK thread a while back but I just never made a CRT for it.

Domains don't powernull cursed techniques.
We see Gojo use Red in Sukuna's domain
We see Sukuna use TS in Gojo's domain
Characters can do their own domains in other's domains
Sukuna used TS in Yorozu's domain
Reggie uses his cursed technique in Megumi's domain
Naobito uses his cursed technique in Dagon's domain
Nanami uses his cursed technique in Dagon's domain

There's likely several others I'm forgetting but this proves the point pretty clear.

Kenjaku likely meant the sure hits are what allow for neutralization of one's technique as we saw how Sukuna's slashes can cut Gojo.

Agree on PN only for sure hits:

Disagree on PN is from the domain itself:
 
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Arkenis said:
So it's kinda been already discussed in the JJK thread a while back but I just never made a CRT for it.

Domains don't powernull cursed techniques.
We see Gojo use Red in Sukuna's domain
We see Sukuna use TS in Gojo's domain
Characters can do their own domains in other's domains
Sukuna used TS in Yorozu's domain
Reggie uses his cursed technique in Megumi's domain
Naobito uses his cursed technique in Dagon's domain
Nanami uses his cursed technique in Dagon's domain

There's likely several others I'm forgetting but this proves the point pretty clear.

Kenjaku likely meant the sure hits are what allow for neutralization of one's technique as we saw Jogo's Meteor would be able to touch Gojo who has Infinity, or how Sukuna's slashes can cut Gojo. So remove power null, this is just homing attacks
Click to expand...
Seems fine. Except for Domain Expansions. I'd remove that as evidence. It's not a Cursed Technique. It's an extension of Cursed Energy applied in a specific way.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Seems fine. Except for Domain Expansions. I'd remove that as evidence. It's not a Cursed Technique. It's an extension of Cursed Energy applied in a specific way.
Click to expand...
0134-007.png

Domains are cursed techniques.
 
Arkenis said:
0134-007.png

Domains are cursed techniques.
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Geto refers to them as an ultimate art of Cursed Techniques. But I think it's fair to assume "Cursed Technique" is being used broadly. As it involves imbuing Cursed Energy to construct a barrier. I'm pretty sure throughout the manga, we're told how they're distinct. The fact a Domain needs to have a Cursed Technique inside of it for the guaranteed hit should make it quite obvious that's it's not a literal Cursed Technique. And it's explicitly stated Domains interact with each other differently than Techniques do with Domains. So it shouldn't be used as evidence regardless imo. There's enough evidence in the OP to prove your point as is.
 
Domain Expansions should actually have limited Powernull because Homing Attacks neutralize something like the limitless. Though this does also point out just a flaw in our CE page and that it doesn't actually cover barrier techniques, just Domain Expansion
 
Arkenis said:
So it's kinda been already discussed in the JJK thread a while back but I just never made a CRT for it.

Domains don't powernull cursed techniques.
We see Gojo use Red in Sukuna's domain
We see Sukuna use TS in Gojo's domain
Characters can do their own domains in other's domains
Sukuna used TS in Yorozu's domain
Reggie uses his cursed technique in Megumi's domain
Naobito uses his cursed technique in Dagon's domain
Nanami uses his cursed technique in Dagon's domain

There's likely several others I'm forgetting but this proves the point pretty clear.

Kenjaku likely meant the sure hits are what allow for neutralization of one's technique as we saw Jogo's Meteor would be able to touch Gojo who has Infinity, or how Sukuna's slashes can cut Gojo. So remove power null, this is just homing attacks
Click to expand...
Sukuna was able to touch Gojo without using DA when fight Domain battle happened. How can he do that if it's not powernull?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
  • Most probably Gojo and Sukuna has Resistance to Powernull
  • Megumi destroying barriers may made Naobito and Nanami use their CT inside dagon domain
  • So what I understand is Domain should be in a closed state to null opponent CT
  • Also Megumi domain is incomplete. That may be the reason Reggie can use his CT.
Click to expand...
Gojo can resist Domain Amplification by strengthening Infinity but we didn't see him ever attempt that against Sukuna's guaranteed hits in Malevolent Shrine. Megumi didn't destroy the barriers, he expanded his own domain inside of Dagon's domain which caused Dagon's guaranteed hit to be cancelled out due to the resulting domain clash. The third bullet point is a little disengenous, the main statement evidenced for Domain Expansions being listed with Power Nullification was Kenjaku saying "A domain neutralizes all cursed techniques" not "A domain - apart from me and Sukuna's divine techniques that defy the conventional imagination of a Domain Expansion - neutralizes all cursed techniques." While Megumi's Domain Expansion is incomplete, the only effect we are ever told about that is that the barrier doesn't incorporate a guaranteed hit condition due to Megumi forcefully closing it around an existinct structure, nothing about it losing the supposed ability to nullify all CTs.

On Gojo resisting Domain Amplification: that was because DA expands the user's domain thinly over them but does not imbue the space around the user with their CT so that their opponent's CT can be poured into the empty space to neutralize it which meant Gojo could strengthen the output of his Infinity to overwhelm Jogo and Hanami's DAs. Meanwhile, Domain Expansions are barriers imbued with the user's CT so the space Gojo's Infinity would be dividing has his opponents CT imbued in it which makes the untouchable aspect of Infinity nullified.

I made a long post detailing the numerous times Domain Expansion was used with a conclusion that explained what Kenjaku's neutralization statement meant on the general discussion thread, I'll copy and paste it here:

Even if you disregard everything else, Kenjaku's statement should not take precedent when what we are shown throughout the series is heavily inconsistent with Domain Expansions supposedly neutralising all Cursed Techniques, at least in the sense of directly nullifying those techniques.

Now to hit the final nail in this coffin that's been buried in the Kola Borehole... Onto the Gojo vs Sukuna fight.
  • Kusakabe (who has demonstrated extensive knowledge around Barrier Techniques) brings up the fact that Gojo can't use Instantaneous Movement to escape Malevolent Shrine as it requires his Limitless technique, not because his technique is neutralised in Sukuna's DE but because Gojo was suffering from a CT burnout after Infinite Void was broken. Keep in mind, Kusakabe was the one who brought up Gojo's teleportation in response to Hakari suggesting Gojo could escape Malevolent Shrine's radius while Gojo was being swamped by the guaranteed hit of Malevolent Shrine.
  • Gojo uses Reversed Cursed Technique to restore his burnt out Limitless technique and then uses CT Reversal Red all within Sukuna's DE.
  • Then when Sukuna finally summons Mahoraga, its wheel clicks inside of Infinite Void indicating it's adapted, and it breaks Gojo's DE with Gojo surprised that Mahoraga had already adapted to Infinite Void. At this point, Malevolent Shrine is gone so Infinite Void's automatic sure-hit effect is in full swing yet Mahoraga is still able to use its adaptation technique inside of a Domain Expansion. That's 3 instances of Mahoraga using its technique inside of a Domain Expansion, and 2 from Sukuna using Ten Shadows to summon Mahoraga inside of one

Now that DE's directly nullifying Cursed Techniques has been thoroughly disproven, it's more likely that Kenjaku's statement was referring to a Domain Expansion's ability to always land a guaranteed hit regardless of whatever CT the target has especially since he brings up the fact that even Gojo's Limitless can't stop the sure-hit effect of DE on the very next line thereby "neutralising" the CT in that sense as the target's CT is useless defensively (due to the sure-hit effect) and offensively (as demonstrated during the Dagon fight where Death Swarm overwhelmed Naobito and Nanami until the sure-hit effect was cancelled by Megumi expanding his own Domain). This is backed up by the fact that Domain Expansions were made to be deadly by incorporating guaranteed hits unlike in the past where Domains were more common due to Non-Lethal Domains that just forced people to obey a cursed technique's rules.

Now onto how Kokichi neutralised Mahito's Idle Transfiguration. In the Official Fanbook, Gege says "The inside of the body is like a domain, so you'd have to rip it open to enter it like what happened with Fushiguro." under Hanami's profile when asked about if Hanami could materialise his tree branches inside of someone's body. Kenjaku in Chapter 82 says that "The word "Simple" is misleading... If another Domain is activated inside a Domain, even the caster of the first Domain, Mahito, will be vulnerable." so what really happened was that Kokichi used tubes storing the Simple Domain technique to rip into Mahito's body to allow him to access Mahito's Innate Domain and then activated the Simple Domain to hit Mahito's soul directly (thereby bypassing Mahito's usage of Idle Transfiguration, "neutralising" it. The anime makes this even clearer by showing how the tube drilled into Mahito's body and caused it to swell outwards). We've seen Simple Domain being deployed offensively by both Miwa and Kusakabe, Kokichi took that principle and applied it during his fight with Mahito to bypass Idle Transfiguration defending his soul.

Furthermore the Official Fanbook's description of what neutralizing jujutsu means is that the attack will hit the sorcerer no matter what technique they have which makes sense when you throw in the fact that Kenjaku specifically mentions the guaranteed hit effect of domains bypassing things like Infinity right after his technique neutralization statement. It also explains why Domain Amplification wasn't brought up as something that could break the seal on the Prison Realm

My overall conclusion is that Domain Expansion's power nullification should be changed to:
Power Nullification via Homing Attack (Cursed techniques deployed by the user in a Domain Expansion are guaranteed to hit their target, regardless of the cursed technique their target has)
Click to expand...
We're probably going to have to make a separate tabber on the Cursed Energy Manipulation page for anti-domain and non-innate techniques like Follom Blossom Emotion, Simple Domain, Curtains and Domain Amplification
 
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It is power nullification, any defensive technique that would thwart an attack is powernulled. It doesn't powernull everything a person has, which is why your examples are almost exclusively offensive or utility based in nature.

The Nanami, and Naobito examples don't work because Megumi specifically impacted Dagon's ability by invading the domain, and neither does the Reggie example because Megumi doesn't have a barrier domain and hence the only benefit he gets is the 120% boost, outside of particular environmental buffs like the instance in the gym.

As such, I disagree with its removal. It just needs to have the explanation changed.
 
It looks good, Domain only negates things that are defensive (for example Infinity), with a sure-hit factor a domain can negates all defenses. Attacks within the domain do not exist until they appear instantaneously on the enemy's skin

Sukuna was able to touch Gojo during the first domain clash because Gojo's domain was destroyed and at the same time Gojo's CT burned out

Homing Attack from domain expansion has an extraordinary feat because it can ignore Infinity and directly hit the target

Jogo's Meteor while in the Domain does not have a sure-hit factor therefore it cannot negate Gojo's Infinity, that is another case

In addition Domain Expansion can only nullify attacks from other domains, so it's homing attack vs homing attack, that would lead to limited power nullification or greater homing attack
 
Dr._whiteee said:
The Nanami, and Naobito examples don't work because Megumi specifically impacted Dagon's ability by invading the domain, and neither does the Reggie example because Megumi doesn't have a barrier domain and hence the only benefit he gets is the 120% boost, outside of particular environmental buffs like the instance in the gym.
Click to expand...
Those examples worked in the context of my op because I was arguing against the idea that Domains neutralized all techniques the moment someone was caught in one, the Reggie example was used to argue against that as well since it just made it more obvious that Kenjaku was talking about the guaranteed hits neutralising CTs were used to try stop an attack
Dr._whiteee said:
As such, I disagree with its removal. It just needs to have the explanation changed.
Click to expand...
which is what I'm arguing for
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
  • Most probably Gojo and Sukuna has Resistance to Powernull
  • Megumi destroying barriers may made Naobito and Nanami use their CT inside dagon domain
  • So what I understand is Domain should be in a closed state to null opponent CT
  • Also Megumi domain is incomplete. That may be the reason Reggie can use his CT.
Click to expand...
No, it's not power null it's just a sure-hit factor (homing attack)
 
Dr._whiteee said:
It's not; homing attacks are not sure hits and do not automatically bypass defenses. Domain attacks do, and thus, absolutely have an element of powernull.
Click to expand...
No. Domain's sure-hits are homing attacks it certainly hit the targets whatever defense they have, it never had property of power nullification
 
TrueKingOfHeroes said:
No. Domain's sure-hits are homing attacks it certainly hit the targets whatever defense they have, it never had property of power nullification
Click to expand...
You are incorrect. The ability of "homing" only has to do with following something in an area.
Homing Attacks are moves that directly seek out its target, reducing the chance of missing even if the user or the opponent makes sharp turns, is in the air or suspended in space, and have a long distance between each opponent. Some homing attacks can continue seeking out their target even if there are obstacles between the homing attack and the target.
Click to expand...

Homing alone wouldn't do a single thing to infinity once reaching Gojo. The technique needs to bypass abilities, which adds to the strength of the homing. This much was directly stated by Kenjaku. So this homing 100% has the quality of limited power nullification in regards to CT that would potentially defend the user from the attack. It's also the reason Kokichi was able to interact through IT at all.
 
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Duedate8898 said:
Domain Expansions should actually have limited Powernull because Homing Attacks neutralize something like the limitless. Though this does also point out just a flaw in our CE page and that it doesn't actually cover barrier techniques, just Domain Expansion
Click to expand...
It's a limited power null only meant for their homing attacks then. And barrier techniques don't require a section, most the cast doesn't use them, most the character doesn't use every aspect of barrier techniques either, would just be needless to add it.
 
By all rights since Barrier techniques are not only broad but widely used in JJK, they deserve indexing in the cursed energy system page. Especially because of the profiles we currently have, over a third of them utilize barrier techniques not DE. Not to mention that barrier techniques not DE offer unique abilities which is common between them.

To say its needless to not put an entire pillar of the power system into the verses power page doesn't make a lot of sense
 
Duedate8898 said:
By all rights since Barrier techniques are not only broad but widely used in JJK, they deserve indexing in the cursed energy system page. Especially because of the profiles we currently have, over a third of them utilize barrier techniques not DE. Not to mention that barrier techniques not DE offer unique abilities which is common between them.

To say its needless to not put an entire pillar of the power system into the verses power page doesn't make a lot of sense
Click to expand...
Name the characters who have profiles that all use barrier techniques.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Gojo, Todo, Naobito, JIro, Jogo, Hanami, Sukuna, Yuki, Yuta,
Click to expand...
Gojo used a curtain, once, and it's on his page already.
Todo only used simple domain once, and that's on his page.
Naobito doesn't use barrier techniques, he uses anti domain technique, it's already on his page and has only been shown with Naoya and Gojo.
Jiro did a curtain I'm assuming? Can just add that to his page.
When did Hanami use a barrier technique, not a domain?
When did Sukuna use a barrier technique, not a domain?
Yuki used simple domain, she doesn't normally use barrier techniques.
Yuta has never used a barrier technique, he used his domain.

If you don't get my point, the point is that the characters do not use barrier techniques in it's entirety, they use specific barrier techniques and don't utilize the numerous aspects barrier techniques offer. Such as changing rules or changing the parameters. So we don't need an entire section for them when its use by characters is limited. It would be like creating an entire section for domains but only two characters use them.
 
I will say though, I've got some of the abilities of barrier techniques within a sandbox so if others do want a section for it then I can make it some time
 
But far more than two characters utilize barrier techinques in JJK. Domain Amplification is a barrier technique because the user is cloaking themselves in their domain. When Yuta kills that cursed user before his big fight in the culling games, he got a barrier technique through his hair shikigami. Falling Cherry Blossom, I forgot isn't a barrier techinque so forget Naobito. Not to mention that even more characters not currently indexed should have barrier techinques or that everyone with a domain expansion has to know how to make barriers in the first place because barriers are key to domain expansions. The only character with a domain expansion that can't do barriers is Megumi which is because he's bad at creating barriers.

And what you're not getting is that since so many of these characters utilize barrier techinques and far more importantly since barrier techniques are a pillar of Cursed Energy as a system they deserve to be indexed fully within the cursed energy system page. It's not that big of an addition either because literally all you have to add is forcefield creation to the cursed energy page.
 
What actually happens is that attacks embedded in the domain do not exist until the attack appears on the target's skin, therefore all defenses are useless, they must be countered with a counter-attack like the way falling blossom emotion works

Falling blossom emotion must have a damage reduction property because it is able to counter-attack direct physical attacks like malevolent shrine but cannot counter-attack hax attacks such as unlimited void

Simple domain should have the power nullification property? In fact, simple domains didn't really negate all the cursed techniques, it only negates a guaranteed hit in the domain, imo limited power nullification is fine

I'm fine with power nullification via homing attack even though that's not how it actually works, I think it would be better give the homing attack property with good and fully explanation
 
TrueKingOfHeroes said:
What actually happens is that attacks embedded in the domain do not exist until the attack appears on the target's skin, therefore all defenses are useless, they must be countered with a counter-attack like the way falling blossom emotion works
Click to expand...
Check Gojo vs Jogo fight again. Not all attacks spams out of nowhere. His Meteor was physically travelling
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Check Gojo vs Jogo fight again. Not all attacks spams out of nowhere. His Meteor was physically travelling
Click to expand...
Jogo's meteor that time was a testing measure, the fanbook says it had no sure hit effect and Reggie also comments that Fushiguro's clones and shikigami took form before he was attacked which let him deduce Fushiguro's domain had no guaranteed hit.
 
SunDaGamer said:
Jogo's meteor that time was a testing measure, the fanbook says it had no sure hit effect and Reggie also comments that Fushiguro's clones and shikigami took form before he was attacked which let him deduce Fushiguro's domain had no guaranteed hit.
Click to expand...
TrueKingOfHeroes said:
What actually happens is that attacks embedded in the domain do not exist until the attack appears on the target's skin, therefore all defenses are useless, they must be countered with a counter-attack like the way falling blossom emotion works
Click to expand...
EldemadeDityjon said:
Check Gojo vs Jogo fight again. Not all attacks spams out of nowhere. His Meteor was physically travelling
Click to expand...
I wasn't talking about Sure hit. I was talking about not all attacks gets spammed out of nowhere.
 
At this point instead of homing attacks and power null, this is just teleportation you guys are describing instead.

If there's no actual nullifying of one's tech in domain expansion and rather a bypass of defense due to the attacks spawning onto the character.
 
Arkenis said:
At this point instead of homing attacks and power null, this is just teleportation you guys are describing instead.

If there's no actual nullifying of one's tech in domain expansion and rather a bypass of defense due to the attacks spawning onto the character.
Click to expand...
I mean, is it really teleportation? It's not like the attacks are being teleported onto the target from somewhere else, they're popping into existence on them.
 
Yeah. Starting to see this as more teleportation
0082-010.png

"avoid being hit" because the attacks spawn on the character like we saw with Dagon and Naoya's domain.

BadSystems said:
I mean, is it really teleportation? It's not like the attacks are being teleported onto the target from somewhere else, they're popping into existence on them.
Click to expand...
Then summoning?
 
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