JJBA's Over Heaven characters massive upgrade (part 2)

[StrymULTRA]

Introductio

Continued from here

Proposed changes
As said before the chages would be these:

As DIO's tier is always a mess, I'd suggest to make 2 different keys to clarfy its situation:

Heaven DIO
Keys: Pre-Absorption | Post-Absorption

Attack Potency: At least Building level+ (Should be superior to his canon self). At least Building level+ with The World Over Heaven (Harmed Star Platinum; Should be superior to its previous form). Multi-Solar System level with Reality Overwrite (Created the Over Heaven Area, a dimension with countless stars in it.) | At least Building level+. At least Building level+ with The World Over Heaven. At least Multi-Solar System level, possibly Universe level to Universe+ level with Reality Overwrite (His Reality Overwrite is far superior to before. With the power gained from absorbing the souls and the Complete Holy Corpse was about to conquer and overwrite the reality of the main world as also implied from Enrico Pucci and DIO himself various times. World here means timeline in context.)

Weaknesses: He is not immune to paradoxical damage. Heaven DIO's powers come from his hands and fists; Should they get wounded or injured in any way, DIO will not be able to overwrite reality until they heal; Needs to touch something in order to overwrite it | He is not immune to paradoxical damage. Heaven DIO's powers come from his hands and fists; Should they get wounded or injured in any way, DIO will not be able to overwrite reality until they heal;

About abilities, for Pre Absorbtion I suggest to add to pre-absortion TWOH ALL the Corpse Parts abilities and

-Pocket Reality Manipulation (Created the Over Heaven Area)

-Biological Manipulation (here)

-Technology Manipulation (here)

"The Corpse Parts (even if he misses one of them) give to him these abilities: Clairvoyance (as shown here), Telepathy, Spatial Manipulation (Warped space), Resistance to Transmutation, Disease Manipulation and Mind Manipulation (The Holy Corpse allows the holders to resist Scary Monsters and similar abilities)"

Since HA Dio only in his Post-Absorption key has the Holy Corpse, I'd suggest to add another tabber for The World Over Heaven (Post-Absorption), including also:

"Same powers as before, alongside with the powers of the Complete Holy Corpse (as Dio absorbed it, he should be able to use its powers as his), Homing Attack (here), Air Manipulation and Status Effect Inducement with Tornado (Can use a tornato that if it hits the opponent it is blind for 11 seconds), Telekinesis (Can levitate) and enhanced Reality Overwrite, Existence Erasure and Power Nullification (His Reality Overwrite is superior than before and can overwrite things without touching them)"

Heaven Jotaro
Jotaro OH should have all Post-Absorption TWOH abilities.

Agree: 14 (Armorchompy, BlackDarkness679, PsychoWarper, Chariot190, BakiHanma18, The Smashor, Theuser789, The real cal howard, Strawboi, TISSG7Redgrave, The Smashor, Iapitus The Impaler, DemonGodMitchAubi, Ionliosite)

Neutral: 1 (Ogbunabali)

Disagree: 1 (Beast Zero Gudako)

 

[Antvasima]

You should try again to ask all of the following members to comment here:

Saikou The Lewd King

Promestein

SomebodyData

Iapitus The Impaler

Dargoo Faust

DemonGodMitchAubin

Qliphoth Bacikal

Starter Pack

The Smashor

Sir Ovens

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Overwritting an entire timeline is Low 2-C as I recall.

But that won't matter since Dio never fully obtained the Holy Corpse and all the soul since Jotaro still has them, which he requires if he wanted to overwrite the timeline.

Post-Absorbtion Key shouldn't even exist since it was still incomplete.

 

[StrymULTRA]

>Overwritting an entire timeline is Low 2-C as I recall.

There are issues, Dio never wanted to overwrite all the time, but just the present.

>Post-Absorbtion Key shouldn't even exist since it was still incomplete.

Uhm, how it's incomplete? The plot itself was DIO wanting to reach that power because otherwise he couldn't overwrite the main universe as his wish

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

@Strym

Dio goal is to overwrite the Main World, which the word World in this context is timeline.

You just answered you own question. Because post absorption Dio is referring to his theorically Peak should he succeed collecting all the corpse parts and souls. But since he never did, it has no reason to exist.

At the very best, you can make an "Incomplete post absorption" key. Just remove the "with the power of Holy Corpse and soul" part since It's implying he had reaches his peak, which he hasn't.

 

[StrymULTRA]

@Strym
Dio goal is to overwrite the Main World, which the word World in this context is timeline.

You just answered you own question. Because post absorption Dio is referring to his theorically Peak should he succeed collecting all the corpse parts and souls. But since he never did, it has no reason to exist.

At the very best, you can make an "Incomplete post absorption" key. Just remove the "with the power of Holy Corpse and soul" part since It's implying he had reaches his peak, which he hasn't.

Except that they were aborbed but still

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Except that Jotaro (and Jolyne) still has the final part of the souls and the corpse.

You can say DIO has reached his peak when he never fulfilling the requirement.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Except that Jotaro (and Jolyne) still has the final part of the souls and the corpse.
You can say DIO has reached his peak when he never fulfilling the requirement.

Makes sense, they weren't 36 in all either

 

[StrymULTRA]

Fixed

 

[StrymULTRA]

Overwritting an entire timeline is Low 2-C as I recall.

This guy is Low 2-C for a similar reason, so yeah I guess

 

[Antvasima]

Did you ask the members I recommended?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Did you ask the members I recommended?

Yes I did

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This works I guess, however I would make the Low 2-C key a "possibly" instead of a "likely" to appease people's doubts about it being legit

 

[StrymULTRA]

This works I guess, however I would make the Low 2-C key a "possibly" instead of a "likely" to appease people's doubts about it being legit

Fixed and thank you

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

I disagree giving DIO a rating where he never even has the requirement to fulfilling the feat.

 

[Ionliosite]

I agree with Micht.

 

[StrymULTRA]

He still has the feats, he was warping the main world on scree so...

 

[Promestein]

Erasing a person across any amount of universes is not an AP feat, it's a hax feat.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

He still has the feats, he was warping the main world on scree so...

That just showing his RW capabilities on smaller scale. DIO main goal is to overwrite the timeline to his liking, as in changing the history and making him as ruler of the world.

He can't do this because he lacks the requirement to do so.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Erasing a person across any amount of universes is not an AP feat, it's a hax feat.

It always looked pretty iffy for him being High 3-A for that, thanks to clarify me

 

[StrymULTRA]

That just showing his RW capabilities on smaller scale. DIO main goal is to overwrite the timeline to his liking, as in changing the history and making him as ruler of the world.

He can't do this because he lacks the requirement to do so.

Well, I've changed to "at least 4-A possibly Low 2-C" due this being a bit vague, it possible as is not

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Being vague is not the problem, not fulfilling the requirement is.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well, Kyurem's original form still is on its profile despite is never shown so what's the problem here?

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Well, Kyurem's original form still is on its profile despite is never shown so what's the problem here?

You misunderstand what I said about "fulfilling the requirement".

What I mean is that DIO never ever reach his peak during the game. He's missing the last part of the Holy Corpse and soul since he failed to get them from Jotaro.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Nor Kyurem , nor Fusion Zamasu , but they still got their "hypotetical" ratings, so why Dio shouldn't?

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Well, Kyurem's original form still is on its profile despite is never shown so what's the problem here?

He is missing the last part of the Holy Corpse and soul since he failed to get them from Jotaro.

 

[StrymULTRA]

And Zamasu was erased before reaching 2-C and Kyurem never got even an artwork or a method to reach its complete form.

Dio isn't an exception here

 

[BlackDarkness679]

As if it matters he didnt get them all, with what he had he still aimed to warp the main world

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

As if it matters he didnt get them all, with what he had he still aimed to warp the main world

Yes, he still aims to overwrite the Main World, that IS why he went all the trouble as much as fighting Jotaro and Jolyne.

So yeah, that is matter....A lot.

I actually have no problem even if he never shown to do the feat, I do have issue giving him a Tier where he doesn't even have the fuel perform the feat.

 

[StrymULTRA]

And Zamasu and Kyurem too, and despite this their hypotetical tiers still are valid

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

And Zamasu and Kyurem too, and despite this their hypotetical tiers still are valid

Dunno about Kyurem, but Zamasu actually HAS the power to perform the feat. He was just interrupted by Zeno.

Meanwhile, not only DIO was interrupted but he never did obtained the necessary power to perform the feat.

This is my last reply for today. It's freaking 2 am here.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Kyurem still got a third key despite that:

>Hasn't even an official name

>Hasn't even an official artwork

>Its existece is a thing because of just a statement

Not a feat and not even a way to reach that, but despite this that thing is on the wiki, Dio is clearly much more specific than that

 

[Chariot190]

Ya'll forgetting that Pucci straight up killed himself and gave his soul to Dio, Dio ultimately did end up with 36 souls, one of them just wasn't Jotaro's as originally planned. Also he did get all the corpse parts including Jotaro's. Doesn't really matter because warping the main world is still baseline 3-A and he did it after an explicit powerboost where he says himself he's boosting his power.

>Erasing a person across any amount of universes is not an AP feat, it's a hax feat.

Overwrite in general is hax, if we're giving it a tier we can't cherry pick what we do and do not use. The method in whichhe performed the feat is his overwrite ability, as such his overwrite ability managed to instantly overwrite an infinite amount of mass in one move. It's hax, but it's also infinite mass going poof, possibly works best for that one due to the iffyness of it but as it stands, it happened regardless.

tldr.

Dio still has a baseline 3-A feat after his powerboost so that's still usable for his key (idk we arguing for tier 2 now), High 3-A Funny feat while primarily hax based is still a showing of his overwrote's potency so it's possibly usable. And idk why we arguing tier 2 now but when it comes to 36 souls, Dio actually did get 36 of them, Pucci straight up kills himself for that purpose, impaling himself on the statue to further Dio's plans along quicker, bypassing the need for Jotario's soul, and iirc Dio ended up taking Jotaro's corpse part as well meaning he had the whole thing so that is a non-issue (And even if he didn't, I'd have to double check, he still got an exponential power boost that lit up the whole area with a ******* ssj light show, in which he still proceeded with his plan and it was kinda still working from what we see, tbh the only thing that would change is instead of the holy corpse it'd be with most of the holy corpse, but as said, pretty sure he got Jotaro's piece as well). .

Excuse the typos fyi, just woke up.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Tier 2 is because reality warping stuff on a universe is Low 2-C, and seems accepted, so is fine

 

[BakiHanma18]

For clarification's sake, I'd like to mention that my opinion of the material and outcomes discussed has not changed: I still agree with the second key for OH stand users. Chariot has been arguing the point phenomenally and I see no holes in the logic presented

 

[Chariot190]

Tier 2 is because reality warping stuff on a universe is Low 2-C, and seems accepted, so is fine

Only the case if you warp and overwrite the timeline as a whole, As in every point in history, idk if I wanna say Dio warped the main world in such a way he warped the past as well.

Warping the present is 3-A, High 3-A if the universe is infinite in size (idk how big a JoJo universe is so I've been assuming observable universe, there's probably a line that says it's infinite in sized, but I ain't looking through interviews for that anytime soon). It's Also High 3-A if you warp the universe and a bit of time, for example, Diavolo's time skip is technically High 3-A (well, it's briefly High 3-A but you get the point) on the 4d scale, it ***** the whole universe and time, but not all of time so it's just High 3-A but a 4D high 3-A. If you warp it and all of time it's low 2-C though. Alternatively creating a space-time is low 2-C as well, like if Dio's dimension was confirmed universe sized, it'd be a low 2-c feat because he had to of created the space-time that dimension works off of as well when he made it.

tldr. Pretty sure Dio warping the main world is just 3-A. But if his goal is to overwrite the timeline entirely then yeah maybe low 2-C at his peak peak although we don't see him do that and his 3-A warp seems to be what his goal was going bythe dialouge in the fight. I'm sticking with the original plan still nonetheless because it's what we see him do and double checke (Although again, SPOH fixing everything including the 3-A warp and events that took place in the past may warrant some thought but we already discussed that bit in the last thread, I'd rather just stick to one easy to understand idea and give him a tier off that before getting into the more vague as **** thngs that actually are indeed debatable and subject to opinion), Fyi Pucci did indeed commit suicide and gave his soul to Dio, meaning yeah he ultimately did get 36 souls without Jotaro.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Warping the reality means even warping the time, Dio was interested to mess up with the timelines creating anomalies in the different parts, I'm now pretty sure that he wanted to overwrite the universe on a Low 2-C scale

 

[Chariot190]

Well yeah, it does, but he'd have to warp all of time, not just the present and we don't have enough info to say he was warping the past and future as well. (Actually if he was warping the Past wouldn't the past already have been warped when fighting him previously given it was the same timeline ƒñö). Yeah he probably did want to warp it on a low 2-C scale, get rid of those pesky Joestars, kinda like MIH and it's timeline history change effects when it makes a new world bu as said, that isn't what we see him do.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well, we take SC as the present as these events kinda happened there, then we have all the other parts as the past and the future, and Dio messed will all of them, Low 2-C is kinda solid imo