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Jin Mo Ri vs. Tiamat (Fate/Grand Order)

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Mo-Ri has no way of winning this matchup aside from stuffing Tiamat in his Gourd due to lacking the concept of death along with her Acausality and omnipresence throughout time and space.

However, there's no way in hell that she's ever touching such a small and mobile target, even with speed equalized.
 
How does Tiamat's "cannot be killed unless all other life on earth is killed" related to her lacking the concept of death? Do both conditions need to be fulfilled to defeat her or just one of them. Because Jin could easily kill every living thing on earth
 
@Monarch Laciel

Both need to be fulfilled. Even after they threw her into the Underworld (which required the Goddess of the Underworld to sacrifice her life), they still could not kill her until King Hassan used his Noble Phantasm to impose the concept of death on her, rewrite her time of death to the present (eliminating her Acausality), sever her fate, and erase the reason for her existence from time itself (thus taking out her omnipresence through space and time). Even then, a fully charged Enuma Elish from a bloodlusted Gilgamesh was needed to finally put her down.
 
For context, they threw her into the Underworld in order to remove that first layer of Immortality by removing her from Earth, thus keeping her from being the last living being on Earth.
 
Yeah... Sounds like Mo-Ri isn't going to put her down.

But why doesn't she completely wipe the floor with him though?
 
@Sir Ovens

Because Mo-Ri has generally shown better destructive feats, has the advantage of flight, is tiny compared to Tiamat's hulking form, and is much more intelligent.

The problem is that he can't put her down and she has infinite stamina as a self-sustained Servant.
 
@NotEvenHuman

Mo-Ri is used to dealing with crowds. How many of those monsters can fly?
 
Tiamat can make an infinite number of monsters, being used to dealing with crowds won't help much. All of them can fly if Tiamat wants them to. All she has to do is start spawning them with wings.
 
@NotEvenHuman

The weight of his staff alone tears apart beings who are able to casually toss Jupiter around.

Mo-Ri can potentially fly into space and planet bust to deny Tiamat freedom of movement, but that's his best option aside from sealing her in his Gourd.
 
Actually, what's stopping Mo-Ri from sealing her in the Gourd? It sealed other 5-A beings before and the entire population of the Sage Realm.
 
I don't think he can. I'm pretty sure the Gourd only affects humans and monsters, and abstracts like Jin's memories. It can't affect gods, which Tiamat is
 
@Sir Ovens

He could probably try, but it's far more difficult to seal Gods that are unwilling, and in all the other occasions he could use it he chose to enter a slugfest instead.

Being a Beast-type Servant and one of the oldest Divine Spirits ever, I'm not whether to categorize Tiamat as a monster or a goddess.
 
I vote inconclusive. Jin has no way to put Tiamat down except by absorbing her with the Gourd, and he would need to weaken her first somehow due to being a god. On the other hand, like repuzzan says, Tiamat will be unable to hit a tiny mobile spec like Jin who's just dashing around, and his duplication and gourd (which wil work this time) would be able to take down any monsters she spawns at him.

Edit: I just had another look at her weaknesses and abilities - she literally cannot leave the sea apparently. Also, her Authority of the Beast won't work on Jin because unlike Fate gods who are apparently descended from humans (somehow), Jin is a monkey demon from the sage realm. So definitely inconclusive, as long as Jin stays out of the sea he can take whatever she throws at him.
 
Well, Mo-Ri got bumped up to Small Star level, so now it's really inconclusive since Tiamat has no way to kill Mo-Ri but Mo-Ri can only hope that she gets sucked into the Gourd.
 
Yeah. He's Small Star level in his base Monkey King Form, but then he can boost his power 250,000x via magical acupuncture.
 
Then there's absolutely no way for either one to deal with the other, making it a complete and utter stalemate.
 
If there's a possibility of her being sucked in to that gourd won't that count as technical BFR? Or can she escape that? Can't Tiamat be at least dazed by an attack from that scale?
 
@Core

Come to think of it, even sucking her into the Gourd would be ineffective due to her Acausality and Nigh-Omnipresence throughout space and time. They needed King Hassan to remove those in order to make throwing her into the Underworld matter.
 
Where does existing throughout space and time stem from again? Trying to find on the wikis and profiles right now but not finding any good source.
 
It's one of her skills. I've paraphrased it on her profile, but here's the official description:

Independent Manifestatio (Õìÿþï¼ÚíòþÅ¥, Tandoku Kenge) is a skill to manifest independently in the current world. Seven days after manifestation, the Indian Ocean will be smothered black. Once Tiamat manifests, she unceasingly gives birth to Magical Beasts, and sets out to devour humanity. However, the body of the Second Beast is the ocean itself, so it cannot move onto land. Instead, it is her children's role to mop up the human race. Furthermore, this Skill is an expression of the holder's presence across all of space-time, rendering her immune to attacks by methods such as time travel paradoxes, and canceling out all instant death attacks as well.
 
Alright thanks. And yeah it's an eternal stalemate here. Although that does make me wonder if instead of all those prerequisites on shutting down her conditions (Since manipulating the fate when one dies and purpose of their existence is questionably unquantifiable) one can instead aim for this ability or rather trait?

Just a curious question.
 
@Core

I sort of doubt it. King Hassan can casually kill concepts like long-range communication and magical contracts. If he could just erase this skill, Tiamat could lose her ability to manifest independently and vanish. Since he didn't, I'm assuming it wouldn't happen that easily.
 
Isn't that basically more something like wavelengths alongside existing energy? I don't think that's as big as what Tiamat has even with just comparing. Did he actually kill the concept of light or something big like that?
 
@Core

The heroes use electronic communications systems to communicate with Doctor Roman back at base. Hassan swung his sword once, they suddenly lost connection even though the equipment was otherwise unharmed.
 
I read the quote, but how exactly is Tiamat omnipresent across space and time if she literally cannot leave the ocean?
 
@Monarch Laciel

Her physical body as a Servant cannot leave the ocean. However, she herself is Omnipresent through all of time and space. As a result, she manifest wherever there is an ocean through her Independent Manifestation skill.
 
Wait, wouldn't that mean if you lock her into that physical body she can't escape whatever you do to the physical body? It kinda makes me think of angels from Supernatural, existing as wavelengths and in a different dimension-esque place.
 
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