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Ji Ning Vs Itachi Uchiha - Ryu's Husbando Vs WOI's Husbando

Ning has like 3-4 layers of resistance to illusions at this point and unless something changed about Naruto genjutsu scaling on that blog, it should be enough to deal with Mangekyou Sharingan stuff.

And Ning can delete Itachi's soul with SC art of course. Or freeze him in place via concept hax and stuff. If there's a counter to either than feel free to correct me.

And it's nice to see more matches for Ning. Was worried he got too broken.
 
Planck69 said:
Ning has like 3-4 layers of resistance to illusions at this point and unless something changed about Naruto genjutsu scaling on that blog, it should be enough to deal with Mangekyou Sharingan stuff.

And Ning can delete Itachi's soul with SC art of course. Or freeze him in place via concept hax and stuff. If there's a counter to either than feel free to correct me.

And it's nice to see more matches for Ning. Was worried he got too broken.
Click to expand...
This definitely has to be discussed by naruto supporters but the layers of genjutsu hax itachi has is more than just 4. Just off the top of my head edo Itachi's genjutsu can effect > Ems Sasuke > Ms > Sasuke's base sharingan can in turn resist Tsukuyomi > which can effect Kakashi > who can in turn resist genjutsus with Sharingan. I'm likely forgetting more but it's definitely not just 4.

Ji's soul hax is pretty much unblockable by Itachi unless it depends off power but can explain more. Not sure how the concept hax works or wym by freezing but other than that Itachi loses.
 
Planck69 said:
Ning has like 3-4 layers of resistance to illusions at this point and unless something changed about Naruto genjutsu scaling on that blog, it should be enough to deal with Mangekyou Sharingan stuff.
Click to expand...
that is most definitely not enough to deal with Itachis Genjutsu
Tsukuyomi>MS Genjutsu>3 tomoe Genjutsu>2 tomoe Genjutsu>1 tomoe Genjutsu>Normal genjutsu
This is for reference not the full scaling chain
Planck69 said:
And Ning can delete Itachi's soul with SC art of course. Or freeze him in place via concept hax and stuff. If there's a counter to either than feel free to correct me.
Click to expand...
I mean freezing in place doesn’t mean much when Genjutsu can activate without moving
 
theultimate5105 said:
that is most definitely not enough to deal with Itachis Genjutsu
Tsukuyomi>MS Genjutsu>3 tomoe Genjutsu>2 tomoe Genjutsu>1 tomoe Genjutsu>Normal genjutsu
This is for reference not the full scaling chain
Click to expand...
I am looking at the blog written on the verse page about genjutsu potency and there's no difference between tomoe accepted there at all. Any like, thread on this?
theultimate5105 said:
I mean freezing in place doesn’t mean much when Genjutsu can activate without moving
Click to expand...
I mean, the same application later on freezes even thought-based stuff. But he may not always open with it anyway.
 
Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan > Mangekyō Sharingan > 3T Sharingan > 2T Sharingan > 1T Sharingan >Regular Genjutsu Potency
 
I mean, worst case scenario, it's an Incon cuz Soul shattering exists, or would it be Nings win since he would've killed Itachi if used both at the same time?

Also, are we sure the scaling shit isn't just stating they are stronger? Like have every one of these genjustus or smth affected someone who resisted the weaker variant of it?
 
Planck69 said:
The resistance is very much different from the general hax potency part. Which is a good thing since Ning ain't trying to hax Itachi. And would Itachi think to hax both of Ning's minds anyway?
Click to expand...
Thats not resistance that’s potency, Itachi’s genjutsu scales to ems.

Also this is Edo itachi, he’d likely and casually put both minds under genjutsu in less than a second so could Ji even split his mind fast enough to react to it?
 
Rikimarox2 said:
I mean, worst case scenario, it's an Incon cuz Soul shattering exists, or would it be Nings win since he would've killed Itachi if used both at the same time?

Also, are we sure the scaling shit isn't just stating they are stronger? Like have every one of these genjustus or smth affected someone who resisted the weaker variant of it?
Click to expand...
Read the page i posted that got accepted already
 
Wouldn't Izanami just scale above Tsukuyomi regardless? As if that's the case then Itachi would be at 5 layers.
 
Itachi used Izanami against Kabuto

And seeing as Izanami has been stated to be "An ultimate ocular jutsu", wouldn't this just put it above Tsukuyomi by default?
0581-015.png
0581-016.png
 
AdNiBN002 said:
Itachi used Izanami against Kabuto

And seeing as Izanami has been stated to be "An ultimate ocular jutsu", wouldn't this just put it above Tsukuyomi by default?
0581-015.png
0581-016.png
Click to expand...
can just be on the same level on tsukuyomi. It can be ultimate because of its use but generally speaking it would be probably greater than Tsukuyomi
 
Arkenis said:
can just be on the same level on tsukuyomi.
Click to expand...
I suppose that's fair, although I don't recall Tsukuyomi ever haven been stated to be an "ultimate ocular jutsu" or anything akin those lines. And given that Itachi out of all people should have a good grasp on the potency of these two ocular jutsu's specifically, Izanami does just seem to be depicted as superior to Tsukuyomi.

Arkenis said:
It can be ultimate because of its use but generally speaking it would be probably greater than Tsukuyomi
Click to expand...
Has there even been an example of this being the case though? IIRC every time Genjutsu/Dojutsu's have been stated to be compared it's always been in reference to potency rather than practicality.
 
AdNiBN002 said:
I suppose that's fair, although I don't recall Tsukuyomi ever haven been stated to be an "ultimate ocular jutsu" or anything akin those lines. And given that Itachi out of all people should have a good grasp on the potency of these two ocular jutsu's specifically, Izanami does just seem to be depicted as superior to Tsukuyomi.


Has there even been an example of this being the case though? IIRC every time Genjutsu/Dojutsu's have been stated to be compared it's always been in reference to potency rather than practicality.
Click to expand...
Yeah I don't remember if it has but I'm merely offering another interpretation but regardless it should logically be above tsukuyomi
 
Ning's mind/consciousness is stored in his soul, can Itachi affect it? If you can't interact with souls then affecting Ning's mind is very unlikely.
 
theultimate5105 said:
Itachi can interact with souls. pure chakra (which his Genjutsu uses) can interact with them
Click to expand...
By this logic, even regular chakra attacks can interact with souls. Has genjutsu actually affected souls directly in the setting?

Wanxiang Adept Ji Ning has a Void Immortal level soul. So Mortal (Baseline no resistance) < Houtian < Xiantian < Zifu < Wanxiang < Primal Daoist < Void Immortal is the resistance chain.

3-4 layers is for Zifu which for some reason I assumed this match was using.
 
Planck69 said:
By this logic, even regular chakra attacks can interact with souls. Has genjutsu actually affected souls directly in the setting?

Wanxiang Adept Ji Ning has a Void Immortal level soul. So Mortal (Baseline no resistance) < Houtian < Xiantian < Zifu < Wanxiang < Primal Daoist < Void Immortal is the resistance chain.

3-4 layers is for Zifu which for some reason I assumed this match was using.
Click to expand...
Pure chakra explictly can interact with them
Edo Tenseis are just Souls controlling puppet bodies yet it effects them as well

Why is each one above the previous in terms of mindhax resistence (Also I can’t find mind resistence on Ji Nings profile for the key this match is using, I know he should have it but it just isn’t there)
 
theultimate5105 said:
Pure chakra explictly can interact with them
Edo Tenseis are just Souls controlling puppet bodies yet it effects them as well

Why is each one above the previous in terms of mindhax resistence (Also I can’t find mind resistence on Ji Nings profile for the key this match is using, I know he should have it but it just isn’t there)
Click to expand...
"it was extremely hard to progress in the soul, but in the path of immortals, the soul was incomparably important. only a sufficiently powerful soul would be able to command ever-greater amounts of elemental energy. if an ordinary mortal was in possession of the elemental energy of an immortal, there was only one possible outcome; he wouldn’t be able to tame the elemental energy, which would wildly burst forth and shatter his bones and his flesh, slaying him.

advancing in the soul was something which could be done through visualization techniques, through gaining comprehension into the dao, through strengthening the body to support the soul, or through training one’s will

training the will…another phrase for it might be training one’s dao-heart! ning had already reached the ‘divine will’ level when he was eleven. in the past five years, ning had made astonishing amounts of progress with regards to comprehending the dao, eventually reaching the dao domain level. clearly, this had all been very beneficial to his soul"

And

"What did the phrase ‘void will’ mean? The word ‘will’ referred to his mind, to his consciousness! For ordinary mortals, possessing a soul meant possessing consciousness. Powerful cultivators understood that only possessing a complete truesoul represented having consciousness and the capability for true thought."

Indeed, i think if we use the layers Planck said would give even his first key 5 layers of resistance (i think i just forgot his Houtian level was a thing).
 
XDragnoir said:
"it was extremely hard to progress in the soul, but in the path of immortals, the soul was incomparably important. only a sufficiently powerful soul would be able to command ever-greater amounts of elemental energy. if an ordinary mortal was in possession of the elemental energy of an immortal, there was only one possible outcome; he wouldn’t be able to tame the elemental energy, which would wildly burst forth and shatter his bones and his flesh, slaying him.

advancing in the soul was something which could be done through visualization techniques, through gaining comprehension into the dao, through strengthening the body to support the soul, or through training one’s will

training the will…another phrase for it might be training one’s dao-heart! ning had already reached the ‘divine will’ level when he was eleven. in the past five years, ning had made astonishing amounts of progress with regards to comprehending the dao, eventually reaching the dao domain level. clearly, this had all been very beneficial to his soul"

And

"What did the phrase ‘void will’ mean? The word ‘will’ referred to his mind, to his consciousness! For ordinary mortals, possessing a soul meant possessing consciousness. Powerful cultivators understood that only possessing a complete truesoul represented having consciousness and the capability for true thought."

Indeed, i think if we use the layers Planck said would give even his first key 5 layers of resistance (i think i just forgot his Houtian level was a thing).
Click to expand...
That sounds like Layers of Soul Manipulation resistence and not layers of mind manipulation resistence
 
theultimate5105 said:
That sounds like Layers of Soul Manipulation resistence and not layers of mind manipulation resistence
Click to expand...
Did you read the second quote? It explains there that "will" is mind/consciousness, which is part of the soul as well as one of the things used to strengthen it, as you can see in the end of the bolded part and a bit after that.

The mind is just as layered as the soul cause they're together.
 
Planck69 said:
So, did anything change from before?
Click to expand...
I don't believe so, supposedly Itachi (and the verse in general) should be a getting a decently large layering upgrade for Genjutsu but since the main guy (@UchihaSlayer96) who was going to redo said scaling hasn't been active for quite sometime, so idk when that upgrade is getting added, or even proposed tbh.
 
Arkenis said:
This definitely has to be discussed by naruto supporters but the layers of genjutsu hax itachi has is more than just 4. Just off the top of my head edo Itachi's genjutsu can effect > Ems Sasuke > Ms > Sasuke's base sharingan can in turn resist Tsukuyomi > which can effect Kakashi > who can in turn resist genjutsus with Sharingan. I'm likely forgetting more but it's definitely not just 4.
Click to expand...

Izanami>Kabuto>Edo Itachi Normal Genjutsu>EMS Sasuke>MS Sasuke>3 tomoe Sasuke>=2 tomoe Sasuke>=1 tomoe Sasuke>Alive Itachi's Tsukuyomi>Kakashi's Sharingan>Normal Genjutsu

(Even though this is not a full scale chain, that grants 11 layer's off the cuff.)

There are also examples of Lesser or Equal Genjutsu makers than Itachi bypassing Genjutsu Resistances/Supposed Immunities (Deidara being affected by Genjutsu, Danzo using Kotoamatsukami at the Summit, etc.), with Itachi being revered as one of the most powerful in Genjutsu in the series, possibly only surpassed by beings like Obito and Madara, who could control Kurama with just base Sharingan Genjutsu. Even then it's highly debatable if they surpass him. We know at the very least, he is superior to Kakashi, Sasuke, and his father Fugaku in this regard.

Kabuto, the one who Itachi used Izanami on, has Resistance to Illusion Creation, and the technique in general was made to counteract Mangekyo Sharingan user's abusing their power, meaning it should pretty easily scale above the resistance a MS grants if you want further clarification in that regard.

Also keep in mind, the Sharingan grow's stronger and more potent the more Hate the user has, and Sasuke was full of Hate for Itachi and Konoha throughout the series, meaning it's possible his resistances to Illusion's are by default higher than the norm for Uchiha, but that becomes slight conjecture I think?
 
Arcker123 said:
Kakuro never resists genjutsu iirc. He just exploits its weakness of requiring eye contact. He just closed his eyes and let his sage senses see for him as opposed to his eyes.
Click to expand...
Really? Well, I suppose that should be changed on his Profile... Either way, removing Kabuto changes the chain very little.
 
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