Issues with The Spoonkiller Page

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'm probably putting more time into this than what it's worth, but I loved those youtube comedy skits when they came out as a kid, so I'd like to at least see the guy done right if we're putting him on this wiki.

First off, stuff that should be removed (There's a lot, so buckle up):

• Origin: RichardGaleFilms
  • No. That's not the verse name. We don't call RWBY "Rooster Teeth", and this isn't a case where the company has enough overlap to consider their published works. Should be changed to "The Horribly Slow Murderer with the Extremely Inefficient Weapon" or "Spoonkiller", with the later being a name for the series the creator adopted later on. Hoo boy, we're having issues early.
• Unknown (Stated to be able to follow its victim to the ends of the universe) :
  • First off, the statement that you get this from is likely hyperbolic. It's also not a statement of age, but stamina, which I'll get to later.
• Invulnerability:
  • Yeah, no. It gets injured by regular weapons all the time, it comes back via regen. This should be removed unless I'm given sources/evidence.
• immune to extreme heat and cold and nuclear toxins
  • NLF, there is hardly enough evidence to support an immunity, and true immunities wouldn't even exist at this level. Change to: "Resistance to extreme temperatures and Radiation"

• Curse Manipulation (He is bound to Jack´s bloodline by a terrible curse)
  • I'd like a source. Even then, being part of a curse does not make you capable of performing curses.

• Fate Manipulation (Fates its victim into not being able to kill itself by any other means except his spoon, as shown with Jack being stopped from killing himself multiple times)
  • Saw the video, there is no implication of it manipulating fate. At best you have probability manipulation, or Jack is just incredibly unlucky for comedic purposes. I'd like better evidence.

• Teleportation
  • That's not teleportaion. That's a freeze frame you took in the video that makes it look like teleportation. The hooded figure on the left is Jack, and nowhere does the Spoonkiller teleport; it just throws the spoon and Jack trips.

• Clairvoyance (Always knows where his victim is and can find them no matter where they go)
  • Where did you get this from? It just seems to be good at tracking and following their victims. I need better sources.

• Speed: At least Subsonic movement and reaction speeds (Jumped onto Jack´s car on reaction), Massively FTL+ travel speed (Reached Jack in the corners of the galaxy)
  • Cars like the one Jack was driving don't even move at Subsonic speeds. The heck. Calc it and come back. We also never see it chase Jack across the galaxy, so we can't assume travel speed, just that it got across the galaxy in some way.
• Durability: Unknown, at least Small Building level (Stated to be immortal, unhurt by motorsaws, gunshots, giant magnets, run over by cars at max speed, shot by an RPG and multiple TNT explotions), possibly way higher (It is stated to be able to resist any weapon made by mankind, which would include nuclear bombs and biological warfare)
  • Eh. It gets hurt from guns and bladed weapons easily, however explosions and fire doesn't affect it. It's better to say that's a resistance rather than a dura feat. "Stated to be immortal" has nothing to do with dura. It also isn't "unhurt" by those weapons you named (other than the explosions), it gets real wounds it heals from. Also, the formatting is just poor and sloppy.
• Stamina: Infinite (Stated to have infinite stamina)
  • 90% sure this is NLF. The statement that you linked above this is hyperbolic and it has no feats of infinite stamina. The Lady saying it was also off her rocker, and is unreliable. It's incredibly high, it never stopped attacking Jack for years, but it's definitely not Infinite.

• Galactic via teleportation -
  • Source. We only know it followed Jack across the Galaxy, we don't see how it does this. Also, that feat never even happened, that entire video was a dream Jack had while being chased by it. It's swordplay skills should similarly be removed.

Additions:

• Regen should actually be Low-Mid. It grows back/reattaches an arm it lost, and had huge chunks of its torso taken out by a shotgun.

• Transformation of its body into worms, see the crotch kick.

As you can tell, this profile is sloppy, littered with NLF, and needs a rework. I will be making a new profile on my sandbox to help make what's there keep up with our standards on the wiki, as there is also, numerous, numerous spelling/grammar issues.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

Addition issues -

He tanked a RPG and multiple direct TNT explotions, being hurt by shotguns is like buu being affected by bullets.

His age is unknown.

He is stated to be immortal several times and immune to damage, as nothing stronger than a TNT explotion has been able to put him down for good, and he was stated to be able to endure any weapon made by mankind, just like the profile says.

He literally appeared from the middle to the street to being on top of the bus Jak was being dragged by. Thats teleportation.

Speed.

The car was going at full speed with the intention of running over Gino, and even scooters can reach subsonic speeds.

You should be the one researching things over before trying to downplay without posting evidence that contradicts the direct sources posted on the profile.

And "Getting from one place to the other" is literally what traveling means. So i dont know what are you even trying to say here. He got there from earth before Jack would pass away by old age, hell, he looks exactly the same as always, so it shouldnt be more than 2 or so years.

traveling from earth to the edge of the galaxy in 2 years is still faster than light.

Durability -

All and each of one of the instances stated were illustrated by direct sources, he can tank an RPG without any visible damage and thats it.

Unless you are willing to go and make a CRT for Wall Level durability Super Goku.

Stamina.-

He continously tormented Jack´s family for generations without having to rest a single second.

If that is not claear cut infinite stamina, i dont know what the hell it is.


Seriously, read the profile before making unbased downplay like this.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I've fixed your spacing issues, rather not make the thread look messy.

He tanked a RPG and multiple direct TNT explotions, being hurt by shotguns is like buu being affected by bullets.

That's why I was iffy on that. Also, Buu's and Goku's case is an outlier. If anything, explosion tanking feats are outliers, seeing as there are three at best, and I can name off dozens of times where it is injured by entirely mundane weapons.

His age is unknown.

Then why do you have a random, unrelated quote next to it?

The car was going at full speed with the intention of running over Gino, and even scooters can reach subsonic speeds.

I'd actually like a source on the second for personal enjoyment, but you're using the high-end. We don't know how fast the car was moving, so use an average and calc it rather than assuming the absolute maximum.

You should be the one researching things over before trying to downplay without posting evidence that contradicts the direct sources posted on the profile.

Your "Direct Evidence" doesn't even have timestamps most of the time. And you're blowing them out of proportion.

All and each of one of the instances stated were illustrated by direct sources, he can tank an RPG without any visible damage and thats it.

Yet you claim it tanks weapons it got harmed by consistently and easily. Won't respond to the DBZ bait, see above as to why the explosion feats are likely outliers.

He continously tormented Jack´s family for generations without having to rest a single second.

If that is not claear cut infinite stamina, i dont know what the hell it is.

No, that's not infinite stamina. It could fight for millions of years without infintie stamina. I don't think you know what Infinite is, however I'll assume you're just confused over how we handle stuff like NLF.

Seriously, read the profile before making unbased downplay like this.

My "Unbased Downplay" is just me pointing out your lack of evidence. I've yet to see you bring new evidence or try and defend your evidence outside of insisting on its existence.

Also, I see no defense of your statements for the powers. You can't post random video links and expect people to believe that it's verifiable evidence.

And, that's just a bit mean spirited. Of course I read the profile, I'm quoting, commenting, and pointing out your lack of facts.

 

[ProfessorLord]

I was asked by Dargoo to help. I am only participating because he seems really fond of it, so I will go out of my way to help him make this a viable profile, instead of what it is now:

The verse name is fine so long as there is proof or something to suggest a connected universe. We don't call RWBY Rooster Teeth because there is also Red vs Blue, and the two have nothing to do with each other. We don't have each story in Cthulu as its own verse (even if they are connected), we just refer to it as Cthulu Mythos/Cthulu Verse. I just wanted to point that out, I ultimately agree with Dargoo's suggestion.

I agree with it being stated to follow to the ends of the universe as hyperbole. I think a common theme for this revision will be "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". It's fine if it was stated that he can hold his breath for 5 minutes, not that extreme of a feat. It is not okay though to suggest that he will never tire and can cross any terrain possible, as suggested by the statement currently on his profile.

Subsonic cars are limited to higher-end sports cars and race cars. Most automobiles are high end Superhuman speeds. There's also a difference between realizing there's a speeding car an inch in front of you and jumping on top of it (which would be Superhuman reactions) and realizing there's a speeding car 100m away from you and timing your jump (which would be Athletic Human)

Infinite Stamina is indeed a NLF unless there is an explicit mechanic suggesting it. Having a character purely mention so is not valid reasoning, unless said character is all knowing.

 

[Edwellken]

I don't have much to add here for now, but I just wanted to mention that this is in the Versus Threads board.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

>My lack of evidence.

You are the one saying that TNT feats are not valid because you feel "iffy" about them. Literally.

And my points stand, and the videos have timestamps exactly when the feat happens.

-

Because it could imply that he is immortal by longevity and unable to die by growing old.

-

You do know that a LOT of vehicles can reach 76.7 mph?

Hell, the Delorean from Back to the Future reached 88. Why wouldnt Jack´s car be subsonic?

-

>Blowing them out of proportion

Reasoning?

-

He can tank a TNT explotion head on without any visible injuries.

There IS a reason we consider Goku´s 40 ton thing to be an outlier, you know? He has shown multiple superior lifting feats before.

It literally doesnt matter what reaction he has to other weapons if he has been seen tanking an RPG and a TNT explotion.

-

Oh sure, very, very high stamina then.

Even if he was stated to be able to go after Jack to the ends of the universe.

This could mean space, but also time.

-

Yeah, please do close this thread. I do agree with the transformation and very high stamina stuff at least.

 

[Flashlight237]

I had to get the very obvious flaw out of the way (the series name). Still reading over this topic.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

iIf he is shown to be able to hold his breath for 5 minutes, but he later says "Phew, too easy, i could do it better if i actually tried" then his breathing stat is "Five Minutes (Held his breath for 5 minutes), possibly higher. (Stated to be able to hold his breath for longer if he actually tried)"

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

You are the one saying that TNT feats are not valid because you feel "iffy" about them. Literally. 'And my points stand, and the videos have timestamps exactly when the feat happens.

That's clearly not what I'm saying. I am iffy about it, but that has nothing to do with your lack of evidence. You're comparing two-three feats against what is likely over 50 instances of it getting harmed by other stuff. It's more than likely an outlier.

And my points stand, and the videos have timestamps exactly when the feat happens.

I'll just ask you to double check them. Believe what you want.

You do know that a LOT of vehicles can reach 76.7 mph?

Prove how fast that vehicle was moving. Calc it, or don't use a high-end.

>Blowing them out of proportio

Reasoning?

See the OP.

He can tank a TNT explotion head on without any visible injuries.

Actually, we don't see him come out of the TNT explosion. We see a blast of smoke and nothing else.

Even if he was stated to be able to go after Jack to the ends of the universe. This could mean space, but also time.

As I said, it was a hyperbolic statement said by someone who is unreliable. And no, it doesn't mean time. I believe you're attempting to add meaning where there is none.

Yeah, please do close this thread. I do agree with the transformation and very high stamina stuff at least.

Cool, dismiss all of my arguments instead of actually debating with me. That's a great way to make your evidence look better.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

>See the OP

if i am asking you what the reasoning is, its because i couldnt find it on your OP.

 

[ProfessorLord]

No, it would actually be at least five minutes.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

Now, what would happen if someone else said "He could easly just hold his breaths till the ends of time itself"?

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

Now, this is tiring, i will continue with this unbased downplay later.

 

[ProfessorLord]

That's an extraordinary claim. It depends who said it. If it was said by some random old hag, then it would be discounted entirely.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Now, what would happen if someone else said "He could easly just hold his breaths till the ends of time itself"?

I'd call it a hyperbole at best, unless you can prove the person saying that actually knows what they are talking about.

 

[ProfessorLord]

It's not downplay, me and a staff member have pointed out numerous fallacies in your reasoning for the profile. Please don't get upset and just try to learn and negotiate, not fight us.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Now, this is tiring, i will continue with this unbased downplay later.

Please stop dismissing my arguments. It's beginning to actually be insulting.

You have yet to actively respond to my arguments past dismissing them.

if i am asking you what the reasoning is, its because i couldnt find it on your OP.

If you don't think there is reasoning in the OP and won't grace it with an actual rebuttal, than you should have no issue with your 'facts' being removed from the profile, as you clearly don't want to do the legwork and actually defend yourself here.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

The Ginosaji does have infinite stamina. It's able to follow jack around the world and keep moving and hitting him with a spoon again, and again, and again, without ever tiring. It does not require food, water, air, or sleep, and it cannot feel pain. Watch the videos and you will notice that it never gets tired despite all the running and spoon swinging it does. If it didn't have infinite stamina, it should have shown at least one sign of feeling tired over the course of the many videos.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

The Ginosaji does have infinite stamina. It's able to follow jack around the world and keep moving and hitting him with a spoon again, and again, and again, without ever tiring. It does not require food, water, air, or sleep, and it cannot feel pain. Watch the videos and you will notice that it never gets tired despite all the running and spoon swinging it does. If it didn't have infinite stamina, it should have shown at least one sign of feeling tired over the course of the many videos.

That's NLF.

Massively High Stamina Ôëá Infinite

It's like saying someone who did a 12 mile marathon without getting tired can suddenly run forever.

As Prof said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

For reference:

16. No Limits Fallacy (NLF)
This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Oh, forgot:

Illusion Creation (Tricked Jack by pretending to be a nurse)

This was more than likely Jack simply going insane. The very premise of GvG was him cracking and losing it. Otherwise no evidence points towards it using illusions.

 

[Akreious]

So about the stamina thing, his feat isn't infinite stamina worthy. He'd need to have infinite stamina explained or something, like "As he's Undead, his body naturally cannot get tired as it's not alive".

I can run a 500000 Lightyear marathon on foot, and the best I'd get is Ludicriously High Stamina + Longevity. Not Infinite Stamina and Immortality Type 1

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Don't you need infinite stamina to not require food, sleep, air, or water? I mean, normally you can't keep moving perpetually without those. In Real Life, the universe follows a little rule called the Second Law Of Thermodynamics, which states that, basically, you can't get something for nothing; if you consume no fuel, you cannot use energy.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Oh, and more;

It is stated to be able to resist any weapon made by mankind, which would include nuclear bombs and biological warfa

No, just, no.

It stated Jack exhausted every weapon he could find in the credits linked there, not that he used every weapon in the planet. Since we never see Jack getting a hold of any of those weapons, who shouldn't assume he did.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I can run a 500000 Lightyear marathon on foot, and the best I'd get is Ludicriously High Stamina + Longevity. Not Infinite Stamina and Immortality Type 1

I feel like even that is dubious.

We are never told how it gets to Jack, so we shouldn't draw any conclusions without proof.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Wait, nevermind.

https://youtu.be/rHKXh5VRalY?t=439

That entire Star Wars episode was a dream. Why feats from it were used are beyond me.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Don't you need infinite stamina to not require food, sleep, air, or water? I mean, normally you can't keep moving perpetually without those. In Real Life, the universe follows a little rule called the Second Law Of Thermodynamics, which states that, basically, you can't get something for nothing; if you consume no fuel, you cannot use energy.

There are real life beings in biology that do not need sleep and can function on little food air and water. You are right in assuming that they can't move without them, but we just don't know how Ginosaji functions in general; I see him hyperventilating a lot in the trailer. To say that he has infinite stamina is not founded in anything and is just an assumption (which should be avoided in profiles)

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'm going to say again, that feat never happened.

It was a dream.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Yeah, I believe a key should be made for the dream version. The canon version should still have some weapon mastery given how it was able to best Jack with its spoon on multiple occasions.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, I believe a key should be made for the dream version. The canon version should still have some weapon mastery given how it was able to best Jack with its spoon on multiple occasions.

The dream version isn't even real, and it isn't caused by dream manip or even puts it in a seperate tier like Freddy or Boss Leader.

Not really. It just keeps on whacking him with a spoon, although I'm open to evidence/skill feats.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

Okay, but he should at least have Massively Superhuman+ stamina.

 

[ProfessorLord]

That's not a thing we do. We just say "extremely high" or something to that effect. Context is more important than the label in this department.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Oh yeah. More than that, I made a sample page here:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Dargoo_Faust/Sandbox#Powers_and_Stats

The Ginosajii is an awesome character with great stamina, I just want it to be portrayed right on this wiki.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

The ending clearly shows that it was not a dream.

 

[Flashlight237]

Oh yeah. More than that, I made a sample page here:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Dargoo_Faust/Sandbox#Powers_and_Stats

The Ginosajii is an awesome character with great stamina, I just want it to be portrayed right on this wiki.

I'd set this guy's range as "Standard Melee Range" because, after taking a quick look back at the range page, there's this footnote.:

• Knives/daggers, gauntlets, and short-ranged weapons would qualify for this range.

A spoon isn't any larger than a knife.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

The Ginosaji should have teleportation. In the video, it's on the sidewalk when it throws it's spoon at Jack causing Jack to fall to the ground and get snagged by a bus and pulled away. Jack is pulled away by the bus while the Ginosaji is left standing on the sidewalk. A few seconds later the Ginosaji appears on the bus and starts attacking Jack while he is still being pulled away, the bus having never stopped.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

I also believe that the Ginosaji must have Clairvoyance in order to always know where the victim is and be able to find them no matter where they go. In the first video, it somehow knows where Jack lives and it continues to follow him over the world. In the Spoon vs Spoon video, it knows to find Jack at the shore. In the fourth Ginosaji vs Ginosaji video, it knows to find Jack in the Gobi Desert. It must have some sixth sense in order to always be able to find Jack.

As for the Fate Maniplulation, that should be listed as a possible power, since we don't really know for sure if that was really his doing or just share dumb luck. However, the possibility shouldn't be ignored entirely.

 

[Frieza_force_soldier_100]

I also wouldn't call tanking the TNT an outlier, it wasn't visibly damaged at all by the bullets Jack used on it earlier (okay, the first time he used a gun on him he fell down, but there was still no blood and no holes in his body), and after the RPG was used, it looked just fine in the next scene. Fire had no effect on it either. Really, the Ginosaji seems highly resistant to fire and explosive weapons, but some cutting weapons and physical blows seem to effect it, as Jack was able to stab it in the throat with a knife and cut off its arm with a chainsaw, and a kick was able to rip open its groin. It seems that it has a weakness to cutting weapons and physical blows, but fire, explosives, and guns (except for shotguns, which visibly blow blood out of him) have no effect on him.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

It is also not that much shorter than a knife.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

The ending clearly shows that it was not a dream.

No?

It's just Jack getting hit with the spoons again. Same stuff that's been going on for the entire series. None of the space stuff carries over.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

No. Fate Manip is a very specific power that would need a showing if it controlling fate itself to keep Jack from ending his life.

Possibility Probability Manip sounds better iirc.