Issues with scaling for the MHA verse

[CyborgSakumo]

A momentary yank doesn't really justify anything, as Tomura immediately just keep moving once he noticed him, so it shows at most he's an annoyance. That's not justification for an 8-A.

Number 2 as I mentioned above BW shouldn't be considered apart of Deku's normal stats.

Number 3 that's a LS feat not an AP one.

 

[Therefir]

Shigaraki's charge is 8-A shown by how Ryukyu was unable to stop him, so I don't know why we couldn't use that for Deku.

And Shigaraki's durability shouldn't even fully scale from 100%, as Deku's punches can destroy part of his face.

Regarding Shigaraki's statements.

"I see why I was all busted up just a second ago, I had to go past my own body's limits just to keep going"

In this phrase he is clearly referring how his body was hurt so much that that he had to push himself over his limits to keep moving, there's nothing saying he was hurting himself by running, that's stupid.

"That power is too much for his body to keep up with"

Deku was stating how the All For One Quirk is too powerful for Shigaraki to control, he didn't say anything about Shigaraki's physical strength affecting him.

I disagree with this entire revision, it's basically using unrelated reasons to upgrade Shigaraki to 7-B.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Shigaraki's charge is 8-A shown by how Ryukyu was unable to stop him, so I don't know why we couldn't use that for Deku.

And Shigaraki's durability shouldn't even fully scale from 100%, as Deku's punches can destroy part of his face.

Regarding Shigaraki's statements.



In this phrase he is clearly referring how his body was hurt so much that that he had to push himself over his limits, there's nothing referring to hurting himself by just moving, that never happened.



Deku was referring to how the All For One Quirk is too powerful for Shigaraki to control, there's nothing saying he was referring to Shigaraki's physical strength.

I disagree with this entire revision.

knew there was going to be someone.

Ok first off we don't have any confirmed metric on whether he's in 30% or 45% and again BW isn't apart of his normal strength. Also in the charge you showed ryukyu wasn't there, if you're talking about the charge he restrained him with shigaraki was already stopped by ryukyu and shigaraki by his own accord stated "I'm losing steam".

And 2 that's wrong the only time his punch destroyed a part of shigaraki's face is when he hit him directly on the head and screwed with his jaw in all the other panels we can see it just caused his regeneration to slow and some cuts, but nothing debilating, and bakugou by his own admission said as much not to mention Deku himself stated Shigaraki was taking hits from him, the major damage it was causing was the slowing of regeneration.

3 Your wrong here please check the imgur I used we see shigaraki's body has cuts and cracks even though the only attack that should have hurt him was the vanishing fist but his body is clearly breaking apart, where did those wounds come from then.

4 Shigaraki's statement was my body shouldn't have any limits anymore because my hyperregen is back, that is blatantly saying his body cant handle his AP without regeneration.

 

[Therefir]

Ok first off we don't have any confirmed metric on whether he's in 30% or 45% and again BW isn't apart of his normal strength.

Yes we have, a small lightning appears on the corner of Deku's eyes while using 45%, and Deku was shown to move his arms back to yank Shigaraki in that panel, he wouldn't need to do that if BW worked the way you think.

And 2 that's wrong the only time his punch destroyed a part of shigaraki's face is when he hit him directly on the head and screwed with his jaw.

So you are saying Shigaraki can fully scale from a baseline 7-B by having his jaw discoled and part of his head pulverized? Makes no sense to me.

Your wrong here please check the imgur I used we see shigaraki's body has cuts and cracks.

Shigaraki have cracks on his body because of the AFO Quirk and the damage he sustained, he was having cracks before he even went beyond his limits to keep moving.

Shigaraki hurting himself just by running sounds ridiculous to me as well.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Lets go through this

----Shigaraki have cracks on his body because of the AFO Quirk and the damage sustained by his body, he was having cracks before he even went beyond his limits

That line of reasoning is incorrect because eraserhead was negating his quirk, his AFO quirk is a non factor at that point.

---So you are saying Shigaraki can fully scale from a baseline 7-B by having his jaw discoled and part of his head pulverized? Makes no sense to me.

I'm saying he scales because he proceeded to take a barrage of these 7-B attacks and was capable of outenduring that 7-B soley threw his own durability as by that point his regeneration wasn't a massive factor. Not to mention the head pulverized thing didn't happen his jaw dislocating was because he tried to catch a punch with his teech.

---Yes we have, a small lightning appears on the corner of Deku's eyes while using 45%.

That is your own headcannon we've never gotten confirmation of that. Not to mention bakugou himself stated whenever he attacks he uses 45% and it's irrelevant anyway because what I mentioned above regarding that point.

 

[Therefir]

Shigaraki's body starts to crack after receiving an attack from Endeavor, your line of reasoning about he was hurting himself simply by moving is not supported by anything, not to mention there are some Quirks Aizawa can't erase, otherwise Shigaraki would have dropped to his base stats before the operation.

I'm saying he scales because he proceeded to take a barrage of these 7-B attacks and was capable of outenduring that 7-B soley threw his own durability as by that point his regeneration wasn't a massive factor.

And that barrage of 7-B attacks was seriously destroying his body even with the regeneration, which wasn't that slow until Endeavor roasted him. It fact, it was for Deku that the regeneration started to slow down in the first place. Deku's 100% punch pulverized part of Shigaraki's face and that's still a fact.

And now it results 45% Deku having lightning in his eyes is somehow my headcanon.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Shigaraki's dura should not fully scale to 100% Izuku, it's stated that the power was too much for him. Even if he's only 0.1 percent weaker his dura would be Low 7-B+. Izuku is Baseline 7-B after all, his punch didn't just dislocate his jaw, he almost ripped it off. I don't get how that means his dura is equal to 100%.

I's clear that 100%>Shigaraki's dura. Especially considering Shigaraki is only 75% completely, he'll likely be full 100% level at his own 100%. Shigaraki without his regen would be dead and even with his regen, he implied Izuku could've taken him out if he stopped focusing on defending.

His power is without a doubt inferior to Izuku's 100% which is baseline, so even the smallest of difference would make him Low 7-B.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Shigaraki's body starts to crack after receiving an attack from Endeavor, your line of reasoning about he was hurting himself simply by moving is not supported by anything, not to mention there are some Quirks Aizawa can't erase, otherwise Shigaraki would have dropped to his base stats before the operation.



And that barrage of 7-B attacks was seriously destroying his body even with the regeneration, which wasn't that slow until Endeavor roasted him. It fact, it was for Deku that the regeneration started to slow down in the first place. Deku's 100% punch pulverized part of Shigaraki's face and that's still a fact.

And now it results 45% Deku having lightning in his eyes is somehow my headcanon.

Here's again where your majorly false for 3 reasons.

-Shigaraki's body cracking was because he was going beyond his limits as stated when he himself said he needs his regeneration quirk to move unfettered.

-The only quirks aizawa can't erase are mutant quirks, that's not the case here as aizawa personally said that he was the same as the nomu whose base strength was AM tier. Shigaraki's base strength is the same regardless of quirks now. And he clearly could negate AFO so again your incorrect here.

-You just didn't read the OP huh, plz go back and read it , where I showed that his regeneration was slowed please go back and look at it. I'll quote it for you.

---Before Deku even started his 100% barrage Shigaraki's regeneration quirk was significantly slowed down, as Shigaraki's torso wound still hadn't regenerated by the time Deku was starting his barrages, and in later images, you can see it still hasn't regenerated, while just a few minutes ago he regenerated much more grievous injuries in within seconds, and have seen other people with the regeneration quirk regenerate wounds of this level much faster. (The high-end Nomu literally took less time to regenerate its entire body from its head). As well, as Shigaraki by his own admission admitting he was weakened. So whatever you want to say his regeneration quirk isn't a massive factor in him surviving this. (supporting images can be found in Imgur)

-Not to mention he wasn't massively injured he was able to take those attacks and extra and still keep going.

-Izuku by his own statement stated shigaraki was adapting to the punches, he was clearly getting more durable as the fight went on, not to mention he was capable of outenduring him with his durability. If a character can take enough punches to outendure another one, there shouldn't be a question on the durability scaling.

-In that scene he doesn't say he uses 45% so yes it's your headcannon.

Please keep in mind he outendured izuku's attacks that's a fact, you can't say his durability doesn't scale but then is able to to take multiple bloodlusted attacks and hold out until izuku ran out of stamina, that's a huge durability feat that's only possible if there AT LEAST equal in dura to AP.

Izuku, it's stated that the power was too much for him -This was him talking about himself not izuku.

 

[Therefir]

-Shigaraki's body cracking was because he was going beyond his limits as stated when he himself said he needs his regeneration quirk to move unfettered.

His body started to crack right after taking an attack from Endeavor, once again contradicting your reasoning. If he went beyond his limits, it's just because he was close to death or was going to pass out because of the damage he recieved.

Shigaraki's base strength is the same regardless of quirks now. And he clearly could negate AFO so again your incorrect here.

And his Air Cannon is as strong as his base state, and yet you don't want to scale 45% from him for reasons nobody knows, even though in-verse 45% is almost half of 100%'s power, and can take attacks from Shigaraki himself.

Izuku by his own statement stated shigaraki was adapting to the punches.

This again? Many people disagree with that, and Shigaraki doesn't even have that ability in his profile.

In that scene he doesn't say he uses 45% so yes it's your headcannon.

So 30% Deku can outpace Gran Torino, Bakugo, other Pro Heroes, and even push Shigaraki in the middle of his charge? Good to know we have such a feat for him in this state.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Shigaraki wasn't adapting that's probably a mistranslation.

I've read two other translation which state he's enduring or withstanding, I need to bring this up with a good translator but it's very likely that he wasn't adapting.

It also doesn't make sense, his body is breaking down yet it's becoming more durable and stronger?

 

[CyborgSakumo]

His body started to crack right after taking an attack from Endeavor, once again contradicting your reasoning. If he went beyond just limits, it's just because he was close to death or was going tobpass out.


And his Air Cannon is as strong as his base state, and yet you don't want to scale 45% from him for reasons nobody knows, even though in-verse 45% is almost half of 100%'s power, and can take attacks from Shigaraki himself.


This again? Many people disagree with that, Shigaraki doesn't even have that ability in his profile.


So 30% Deku can outpace Gran Torino, Bakugo and several other Pro Heroes? Good to know we have such a feat for him in this state.

Shigaraki wasn't adapting that's probably a mistranslation.

I've read two other translation which state he's enduring or withstanding, I need to bring this up with a good translator but it's very likely that he wasn't adapting.

It also doesn't make sense, his body is breaking down yet it's becoming more durable and stronger?

- He clearly was taking the 100% attacks better as the fight went on, we use the official release until proven otherwise that's always how this works.

-His air cannon doesn't scale to his stats heck that doesn't even apply with AFO who could injure AM but his air cannon couldn't and the same applies with shigaraki , shigaraki could barely harm endeavor with air cannon but could casually stomp him in physicals.

-His body was cracking even prior to that part of the fight when AFO started talking in him, he started cracking which coincidentally was when he started getting serious in the fight.

Can you guys go back and read the OP because half of the stuff your mentioning is in there, and it's very aggravating to have to keep repeating myself.

 

[Therefir]

The entire premise of this revision is based on the incorrect assumption that Shigaraki was hurting himself by going beyond his limits, when the case is, he only went beyond his limits after the immense damage he received from Endeavor.

Shigaraki's body started to completely break right after receiving Endeavor's Vanishing Fist, are we really going to say this was Shigaraki's own fault? And that his body started to break simply by running through the place?

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Your argument is invalid because it was breaking even before that point in the fight which was coincidentally when he got serious. Can you please not repeat debunked arguments as it makes this a huge timewaster.

 

[Therefir]

But even before that initial break, Shigaraki had already received numerous attacks from Endeavor, including his Prominence Burn plus Hell Spider, and a fire-enhanced punch.

If his body broke even more for taking Endeavor's Vanishing Fist, then that means his body initially started to break for the same reason, there's no need to assume headcanons when we already know his body breaks for taking damage.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

But even before that point he had already received numerous attacks from Endeavor, including his Prominence Burn plus Hell Spider, and a fire-enhanced punch.

If his body started to break even more for taking Endeavor's Vanishing Fist, that means his body initially started to break because of the same reason, there's no reason to assume headcanons when we already know his body breaks for taking damage.

But Shigaraki dodged the Prominence burn + hell spider, and the fire enhanced punch barley injured him at all.

And the crack didn't show up until a fewminute after, but when the vanishing fist happened it was immediate. Your logic seems flawed here my good sir.

Not to mention shigaraki already explained the cracks himself but now your making another headcanon that it's only linked to damage when shigaraki stated it was liked to him going above his body's limits.

 

[Therefir]

But Shigaraki dodged the Prominence burn + hell spider.

Wrong, he didn't.

And the crack didn't show up until a fewminute after.

Wrong again, the cracks started to show just two panels later after the fire-enhanced punch.

Not to mention shigaraki already explained the cracks.

The only reason Shigaraki had to go beyond his limits it's because of the damage he recieved, it doesn't mean anything.

Endeavor's Prominence Burn + Hell Spider and Fire-enhanced punch = Shigaraki's body starts to break a bit.

Endeavor's Vanishing Fist = Shigaraki's body breaks completely, and needed to go beyond his limits just to keep moving.

The reasoning is simple, if Vanishing Fist was the reason Shiggy's body broke down completely, then why couldn't the previous fire attacks be the reason his body started to break down as well?

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Shigaraki never stated that the damage was the reasoning.

You are literally making headcannon for this shigaraki's own words for this was "But now .. my hyper regen quirk is back. My body shouldn't have any limits at all." That is a direct statement that his body needs the regeneration quirk in order to operate at full power which means his AP > dura.

This is a simple statement he mentions nothing that the damage is related to this.

 

[Therefir]

His body started to break right after taking Endeavor's fire attacks on both occasions, how is that my headcanon?

After the Vanishing Fist, Endeavor stated that Shigaraki was on death's door, and Gran Torino adds that he's pushing his body past his limits to keep fighting, Shigaraki was clearly breaking from all the damage he received and was about to die (He himself states he was running out of energy).

 

[Damage3245]

Just to recap all of the damage Shiggy took this arc up to that point:

1) Bathed in Endeavor's Flashfire Hell's Curtain: 1, 2

2) Flame-punched to the ground by Endeavor. 1

3) Incinerated at point-blank range by Endeavor. 1

4) Slams into the ground from the impact of his own jump. 1

Shigaraki regenerates from all of the above.

Then Shigaraki gets his Quirks disabled.

5) Slapped by Ryukyu so hard he goes flying into the air. 1, 2

6) Recieved a glancing hit from Endeavor's Prominence Burn, burning his arm. 1, 2

7) Gets blasted by Bakugo's AP: Machine Gun (though it's little more than fireworks to him): 1

8) Punched in the side by Endeavor. 1, 2

9) Blasted from above by Bakugo's Grenadier Bracers. 1

10) Engulged by Endeavor's Vanishing Fist. 1

So that's all the damage he took. And it's after this point that his body starts breaking down.

 

[Gitagon]

knew there was going to be someone.

Ok first off we don't have any confirmed metric on whether he's in 30% or 45% and again BW isn't apart of his normal strength. Also in the charge you showed ryukyu wasn't there, if you're talking about the charge he restrained him with shigaraki was already stopped by ryukyu and shigaraki by his own accord stated "I'm losing steam".

And 2 that's wrong the only time his punch destroyed a part of shigaraki's face is when he hit him directly on the head and screwed with his jaw in all the other panels we can see it just caused his regeneration to slow and some cuts, but nothing debilating, and bakugou by his own admission said as much not to mention Deku himself stated Shigaraki was taking hits from him, the major damage it was causing was the slowing of regeneration.

3 Your wrong here please check the imgur I used we see shigaraki's body has cuts and cracks even though the only attack that should have hurt him was the vanishing fist but his body is clearly breaking apart, where did those wounds come from then.

4 Shigaraki's statement was my body shouldn't have any limits anymore because my hyperregen is back, that is blatantly saying his body cant handle his AP without regeneration.

Not arguing for or against but Deku's last punch against Shigaraki after AFO takes over obliterates part of Shigaraki's face including his right ear almost like vaporization. One could argue that Endeavor's Prominence Burn lowered his durability or that the burnt parts had lower durability but it dit happen.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Why are we attempting to ignore a direct statement by Shigaraki about what happened He himself stated his body needs his regen quirk to operate at full power that is as direct a statement you can get that his AP > dur.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Official translations flat out say he has more power than his body can keep up with, if his surgery was completed, he would have had better Durability, but since at the moment he doesn't, then he has better AP, I also find it absurd that Musclular has more AP than AFO Shigaraki

 

[CyborgSakumo]

The reason @Therefir I am calling your statements head cannon is because they actively contradict what is said in the story, there are direct statements about Shigaraki's power being greater than his body can handle, this isn't interpretation these are direct statements the conversation should end right there.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Not arguing for or against but Deku's last punch against Shigaraki after AFO takes over obliterates part of Shigaraki's face including his right ear almost like vaporization. One could argue that Endeavor's Prominence Burn lowered his durability or that the burnt parts had lower durability but it dit happen.

Ok so Shigraki's body was literally flaking at the seams at that point, tbh it's more of a durability feat shigaraki survived the attack in that state and could continue fighting at all.

 

[Therefir]

Official translations flat out say he has more power than his body can keep up with, if his surgery was completed, he would have had better Durability, but since at the moment he doesn't, then he has better AP, I also find it absurd that Musclular has more AP than AFO Shigaraki

Isn't Deku is explicitly referring to the All For One Quirk as a whole? He specifically says "That power is too much for his body to keep up with", not "That's too much power for his body up with with", context is important here.

It has been stated multiple times that having too many Quirks takes a toll on the body, and this has nothing to do with physical strength.

The doctor himself states that excessive remodeling to Shigaraki's body would have overburdened his brain, implying that even if the operation was finished, he wouldn't have get a body stronger than the one he possess currently, meaning that in order to fully control AFO you need more than just physical strength.

 

[Therefir]

And regardless of his AP, there's no reason for 45% to not scale from him.

 

[Earthyboy]

@CyborgSakumo I agree with mostly everything here. (I feel you could probably argue that Deku's durability at 45% downscales from Shigaraki since he withstood a shockwave from him, but that's just me.) 45% scaling to Shigaraki just because he restrained him with Black Whip always seemed strange to me.

Although, I'm iffy on Shigaraki fully scaling to 100%. He's stated to be not quite on par with All Might by Dr. Ujiko, so maybe he's just comparable. This probably wouldn't change how far he's into 7-B but it's just a detail.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Please note that 100% Izuku is baseline 7-B, if Shigaraki is even 0.1 percent weaker than him he downscales to Low 7-B+.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this, just saying.

Shigaraki is not equal to 100% Izuku though, he'll likely be when he reaches his own 100% however.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I guess "At least 7-C, likely Low 7-B+" for his AP may also be a valid option

 

[Therefir]

I am more fine with that than assuming Shigaraki is exactly as strong as 100% Deku and All Might.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

45% shouldn't scale, I mentioned this in the OP but the restraining things was because of BW which is indepdent of Deku's actual strength(Why does no one read the OP) and the only attack he took from shigaraki was an air cannon which is consistenly shown to be weaker than shigarki's physicals, and the elbow attack which shigaraki wasn't attempting to kill him

Shigaraki survived a barrage of 7-B blows as well as a roasting then another 7-B blow and could still fight on where his regeneration was clearly weakened. That would be diffucult for two characters of equal standing much less to say he's weaker.

I will go back to the statement as you continue to dodge it

"But now .. my hyper regen quirk is back. My body shouldn't have any limits at all."

This statement is directly referring to his body not the AFO quirk, it does not get any more direct than that.

The most I would give is a likely 7-B, but a low 7-B+ is not surviving a barrage of attacks from a bloodlusted adrenaline filled 7-B characters continue to stay conscious get nearly reduced to cinders survive a second rage boosted 7-B attack and then continue to fight after that for an extended period of time.

 

[Earthyboy]

45% shouldn't scale, I mentioned this in the OP but the restraining things was because of BW which is indepdent of Deku's actual strength(Why does no one read the OP) and the only attack he took from shigaraki was an air cannon which is consistenly shown to be weaker than shigarki's physicals, and the elbow attack which shigaraki wasn't attempting to kill him

Shigaraki survived a barrage of 7-B blows as well as a roasting then another 7-B blow and could still fight on where his regeneration was clearly weakened. That would be diffucult for two characters of equal standing much less to say he's weaker.

I will go back to the statement as you continue to dodge it

"But now .. my hyper regen quirk is back. My body shouldn't have any limits at all."

This statement is directly referring to his body not the AFO quirk, it does not get any more direct than that.

The most I would give is a likely 7-B, but a low 7-B+ is not surviving a barrage of attacks from a bloodlusted adrenaline filled 7-B characters continue to stay conscious get nearly reduced to cinders survive a second rage boosted 7-B attack and then continue to fight after that for an extended period of time.

Didn't Shigaraki's jaw get cracked open by a single 100% Smash?

 

[Earthyboy]

Now looking at this more closely. The only reason Shigaraki was standing a chance against 100% was that he was regenerating quick enough.

 

[TheRustyOne]

A Low 7-B+ can indeed take dozens of attacks from a Baseline 7-B.

100% Izuku is Baseline 7-B, even being 0.1 percent weaker makes him Low 7-B+. (I'm not saying that's the difference)

Shigaraki is confirmed weaker than 100%, as he stated so himself and Izuku was shown to overpower him. He almost lost his jaw from a punch.

Shigaraki's Air Cannon injured Endeavor, who scales from taking a punch from Shigaraki. So Air Cannon is indeed comparable to his physical strength, also AFO in Kamino was able to increase the power of Air Cannon by using Spring Like limbs, which proves that physical strength increases the power of Air Cannon.

I'm not getting into his AP rating, but it's fact that 100%>75% Shigaraki.

 

[Therefir]

Shigaraki also believed he would lose the fight if he didn't focus on defense.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

A Low 7-B+ can indeed take dozens of attacks from a Baseline 7-B.

100% Izuku is Baseline 7-B, even being 0.1 percent weaker makes him Low 7-B+.

Shigaraki is confirmed weaker than 100%, as he stated so himself and Izuku was shown to overpower him. He almost lost his jaw from a punch.

Shigaraki's Air Cannon injured Endeavor, who scales from taking a punch from Shigaraki. So Air Cannon is indeed comparable to his physical strength, AFO in Kamino was able to increase the power of Air Cannon by using Spring Like limbs, which proves that physical strength increases the power of Air Cannon.

I'm not getting into his AP rating, but it's fact that 100%>75% Shigaraki.

Please find me where shigaraki states this , I'd love to see it as all I remember is shigaraki states "If only these scummy heroes didn't push me to my limits.." implying he could of taken izuku on at full power

 

[TheRustyOne]

He stated right after that "No. Other than my imperfect body, One For All is in the way of my dreams!"

Which implies even if his body was at full power, OFA would be a massive threat to him.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

Yeah that's not a statement about him being weaker he just says this power is annoying, it's not saying he's stronger than him

 

[Earthyboy]

Please find me where shigaraki states this , I'd love to see it as all I remember is shigaraki states "If only these scummy heroes didn't push me to my limits.." implying he could of taken izuku on at full power

Yeah, Shigaraki is not really as powerful as All Might though. Unless you wanna argue 100% Deku isn't the same as All Might, this statement stands.

 

[Earthyboy]

Shigaraki should probably have Low 7-B+ instead of just baseline 7-B at least.