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Issues with scaling for the MHA verse

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All of those characters can be one shotted by anyone who scale to even the 7-C results.

Nether of those characters scale or have any reason to be compared to even the 7-C result, let alone Low 7-B.
 
TheRustyOne said:
All of those characters can be one shotted by anyone who scale to even the 7-C.

Nether of those characters scale or have any reason to be compared to even the 7-C result, let alone Low 7-B.
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Ryukyu never got oneshot by Shigaraki (unless you mean oneshot in the sense of getting KO'd not killed).

So Deku can grow thousands of times more powerful between arcs?
 
Yes they can, Izuku jumped from being normal human level or 9-C, to 8-C in just 10 months.

It fiction, the jump can be whatever it has to be. Just look at Dragon Ball or any other Shonen on this wiki, lots of them have massive jumps in power in short timeframes.

The gap between power doesn't matter, there is no stated gap in power and they're allow to grow in strength however they want to. It doesn't matter how big the gap is, since the people who go up to 7-C or Low 7-B one shot what they were before.

Bakugo isn't 7-C though, so I don't see why that matters.

A 20x difference between what Ryukyu or others scales to, to what the current 7-C is.

If Shigaraki had even 7-C AP, he would completely destroy Ryukyu's arms.

So maybe Ryukyu's current rating is wrong, or maybe Shigarkai isn't that strong in the first place.

Or maybe we shouldn't suggest to scale her to someone who's punch went straight through both of her arms.
 
Jeanist and Nejire don't have super durability. I remember when Nejire got hit by Dabi, people tried to scale her durability as super high ignoring that she clearly blocked part of the blast with both of her hands. She didn't just sit there and let it hit.

Bakugo might have better blunt force durability than most characters but a casual All Might destroyed him and 5% Deku. Even an 8% kick can graze his skin terribly and he's clearly weaker against piercing attacks just like Endeavor as Rivet Stab destroyed them when it couldn't even pierce All Might's skin.

As for Ryukyu, her quirks directly amps durability via dragon scales but Shigaraki pierced cleanly through her. This kinda shows the difference between them is considerable. Even after she tried her best, Shiggy still kept going. I'd say, Ryukyu is around 45% Deku in physical stats seeing how both performed against Shiggy.

Simply, even with Ryukyu who's literally built for defence, if Shiggy's arm was aimed at her head and not arms, he could have one-shot her.
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
That's fair but that doesn't support your argument much as you're arguing AM and AFO were fighting at around 1% the whole time.
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No, I'm saying they weren't going all out until they did that huge clash that destroyed City Blocks.
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
Which part in the anime shows the horizon?
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The horizon appears several times throughout the manga and anime.
Scan 2.
Scan 3.
Even then, the manga shows horizon anyway so it's fine to use 20km.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Yes they can, Izuku jumped from being normal human level or 9-C, to 8-C in just 10 months.

The gap between power doesn't matter, there is no stated gap in power and they're allow to grow in strength however they want to. It doesn't matter how big the gap is, since the people who go up to 7-C or Low 7-B one shot what they were before with less than half of their power.

A 20x difference between what Ryukyu or others scales to, to what the current 7-C is.

If Shigaraki had even 7-C AP, he would completely destroy Ryukyu's arms.

So maybe Ryukyu's current rating is wrong, or maybe Shigarkai isn't that strong in the first place. Or maybe we shouldn't scale her to someone who's punch went straight through both of her arms.
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What says he was normal human level? Even Uraraka who started with pretty darn average physicals was taking explosions.

The gap clearly matters if such an astronomical gap existed between any of them wouldn't anyone tell some characters to back off or they'd instantly die? If Ryukyu was genuinely 8A while Shigaraki was Low 7B she'd be a fine paste from everything he's done to her.

You're the same person who mentioned piercing damage by surface area just the other day.
Earthyboy said:
No, I'm saying they weren't going all out until they did that huge clash that destroyed City Blocks.

The horizon appears several times throughout the manga and anime.
Scan 2.
Scan 3.
Even then, the manga shows horizon anyway so it's fine to use 20km.
Click to expand...
The only way it applies to your argument is if they fought at 1% for most of the battle.

None of those are the horizon. The horizon is the point were the sky and ground look to meet.
 
She died if he was 7-C, do you understand that.

The gap doesn't matter, because both 7-C and Low 7-B achieve the same results.

Though to be honest he shouldn't be breaking her arms, at 7-C he should be passing straight through her hand like it was air.

So are you saying Shigaraki should be 8-A instead?
 
I believe the problems with Kamino AFO and All Might being Low 7-B is the scaling off the Nomus. Insert's point is that AFO had no reason holding back against the heroes (which would include the Air Cannon meant for All Might but got into a clash against Endeavor) which would then scale to Hood, and scale/downscale to other HE/NHE.

Since Nejire for example is only 267.5 tons and shouldn't be holding back even a 1 megaton Nomu since there's nearly 4K times difference in power. The HE scaling from AFO's 6.3 kilotons and the NHE downscaling to baseline 7-C means they're only less than 4x stronger than Nejire, enough to one shot but the gap is small enough for them to hold back the NHE (with Hood, AFO, and the others being 23.5 times stronger).

Unless we're suggesting that the NHE have much lower durability than their AP.

Also I believe you guys should rephrase stuff and reread stuff. Unless I'm wrong, Insert is not against 7-C ratings but against Low 7-B.
 
Nejire never injured the Near High-Ends and doesn't scale to them.

They aren't holding the NHE back with power, it was specifically stated they just need to dodge their attacks and keep their attention.

Once again even 7-C results give you the same problem.
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
This same All Might was getting flung around bruised by Air Cannon. The same punches AM used to counter Air Cannon were also harming AFO and cause him to start swaying after two blows to the head.

We don't know if the storm covered the entire 20km or do we get a shot of the horizon showing it all covered by storm clouds?

Sure but we can't get a value from the shockwave?
Click to expand...
It's literally stated that All For One and All Might were holding back. This would include the Air Cannon, which AFO must've amplified to match AM's current power.

We can assume it covered 20km because that's the average human eye viewing distance.
 
TheRustyOne said:
She died if he was 7-C, do you understand that.

The gap doesn't matter, because both 7-C and Low 7-B achieve the same results.

Though to be honest he shouldn't be breaking her arms, at 7-C he should be passing straight through her hand like it was air.

So are you saying Shigaraki should be 8-A instead?
Click to expand...
I suppose a 20x difference isn't enough to oneshot her.

Should we rework the scaling of the verse as a whole then because nothing is making sense.
 
Earthyboy said:
It's literally stated that All For One and All Might were holding back. This would include the Air Cannon, which AFO must've amplified to match AM's current power.

We can assume it covered 20km because that's the average human eye viewing distance.
Click to expand...
So AM and AFO suppressed themselves to 1% and now you're assuming AFO started increasing the power of his multiple quirks? Why would he even use multiple if he's holding back? Why would he even hold back to that degree when he could oneshot AM at any time by catching him off guard?

Why would we assume the storm stretches to the horizon?
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
So AM and AFO suppressed themselves to 1% and now you're assuming AFO started increasing the power of his multiple quirks? Why would he even use multiple if he's holding back? Why would he even hold back to that degree when he could oneshot AM at any time by catching him off guard?

Why would we assume the storm stretches to the horizon?
Click to expand...
None of what you're saying really matters because it's already been proven that AFO was literally just holding back his attacks VASTLY to the point that they pack little oomph.

We assume the storm stretches the horizon because we can't see the end of the storm in the panels or scenes. From there we can assume that it stretches at least 20km.
 
Earthyboy said:
None of what you're saying really matters because it's already been proven that AFO was literally just holding back his attacks VASTLY to the point that they pack little oomph.

We assume the storm stretches the horizon because we can't see the end of the storm in the panels or scenes. From there we can assume that it stretches at least 20km.
Click to expand...
You do realise that arguing AFO held back doesn't in any way support your argument unless you're suggesting he used 1% of his power right? Otherwise I can still argue he's 7C but held back like 50% of his power.

That makes no sense why assume the size when we can't prove it?
 
Just because Shigaraki doesn't produce the damage he should be doing, doesn't mean he can't be rated like that.

All Might injures AFO which leaves a crater that's 9-A at best. And only one of AFO's attacks produce 7-C results, every other impact produce's far less destruction.

Base Izuku jumps into a wall and injures himself yet the wall isn't even cracked.

AFO Shigaraki's best AP feat without scaling is 8-C, not even High 8-C.

We ignore stuff like this because authors don't really care about being accurate to reality. With your argument why is Shigaraki using 8-C power and holding back over hundreds of times? Because he's not, just because I can calc one of his attacks at 8-C, doesn't mean that he's 8-C if there's something else to scale him to.

The same is true here, just because we can calc AFO's attack at 7-C, doesn't mean that's how strong his attack is.

The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
You do realise that arguing AFO held back doesn't in any way support your argument unless you're suggesting he used 1% of his power right? Otherwise I can still argue he's 7C but held back like 50% of his power.

That makes no sense why assume the size when we can't prove it?
Click to expand...
We can argue that was only 1% of his power because it's implied and stated that it was him holding back. His 7-C feat should not be used to gauge his full power at all, to begin with, because it's stated several times both characters were holding back. Ignoring all of this, the 7-C feat is still A HUGE outlier if we say it was his full power compared to the 7-B and Low 7-B calculations.

We can assume the size because if the human eye isn't capable of seeing the exact end of the storm when the human eye viewing distance on average is at least 20km, then the storm itself must have stretched out for at least 20km.
 
What if the other characters scaled to Baseline Low 7-B for surviving Low 7-B+/ 7-B Attacks but are badly incapacitated would that still mess the scaling?
 
TheRustyOne said:
Just because Shigaraki doesn't produce the damage he should be doing, doesn't mean he can't be rated like that.

All Might injures AFO which leaves a crater that's 9-A at best. And only one of AFO's attacks produce 7-C results, every other impact produce's far less destruction.

Base Izuku jumps into a wall and injures himself yet the wall isn't even cracked.

AFO Shigaraki's best AP feat without scaling is 8-C, not even High 8-C.

We ignore stuff like this because authors don't really care about being accurate to reality. With your argument why is Shigaraki using 8-C power and holding back over hundreds of times? Because he's not, just because I can calc one of his attacks at 8-C, doesn't mean that he's 8-C if there's something else to scale him to.

The same is true here, just because we can calc AFO's attack at 7-C, doesn't mean that's how strong his attack is.

The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.
Click to expand...
None of this applies to my argument. I'm not arguing DC vs AP. My argument is it makes no sense that AFO would hold back so much and it make absolutely no sense that someone like Ryukyu shouldn't even be alive if Shigaraki was thousands of times her strength and dura. On top of that the only 7B calc in the show seems to be predicated on an assumption if what Earthy is saying is true.
Earthyboy said:
We can argue that was only 1% of his power because it's implied and stated that it was him holding back. His 7-C feat should not be used to gauge his full power at all, to begin with, because it's stated several times both characters were holding back. Ignoring all of this, the 7-C feat is still A HUGE outlier if we say it was his full power compared to the 7-B and Low 7-B calculations.

We can assume the size because if the human eye isn't capable of seeing the exact end of the storm when the human eye viewing distance on average is at least 20km, then the storm itself must have stretched out for at least 20km.
Click to expand...
You're really arguing for 1% power? So you're also arguing that no one scales to AFO and AM?

We never see the horizon so we can't assume the distance and size.
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
What if the other characters scaled to Baseline Low 7-B for surviving Low 7-B+/ 7-B Attacks but are badly incapacitated would that still mess the scaling?
Click to expand...
Yes. It still creates this ludicrous difference between characters and breaks the scaling. Nejire and the others attacks shouldn't be able to do anything to the HE cause they can just push off with Low7B force and kill them for example. Even then nowhere is it implied a difference like that existed. Ryukyu probably wouldn't even be allowed in the fight is Shigaraki upscales from Endeavor who's THAT much tougher than her.
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
None of this applies to my argument. I'm not arguing DC vs AP. My argument is it makes no sense that AFO would hold back so much and it make absolutely no sense that someone like Ryukyu shouldn't even be alive if Shigaraki was thousands of times her strength and dura. On top of that the only 7B calc in the show seems to be predicated on an assumption if what Earthy is saying is true.

You're really arguing for 1% power? So you're also arguing that no one scales to AFO and AM?

We never see the horizon so we can't assume the distance and size.
Click to expand...
Of course, no one scales to them. It's pretty obvious that most of the Top 10 shouldn't. They're Top Tier for a reason. The only ones who should are Deku and Bakugo when using OFA.

You STILL can't get rid of all the Low 7-B to 7-B feats just because of one 7-C feat. The 7-C feat either way you look at it, is still an outlier.
 
We've just got to be rational about who should scale to what.

Wonky scaling comes up in almost every series and we usually ignore pieces that don't matter. Remember Whitebeard, the strongest man in the world, being stabbed by a bunch of fodder marines? And yet we don't scale fodder marines to Whitebeard in any way.

So we won't be making the rest of the Top 10 heroes scale to All Might, or the top students equal to the Top Tiers.
 
Earthyboy said:
Of course, no one scales to them. It's pretty obvious that most of the Top 10 shouldn't. They're Top Tier for a reason. The only ones who should are Deku and Bakugo when using OFA.

You STILL can't get rid of all the Low 7-B to 7-B feats just because of one 7-C feat. The 7-C feat either way you look at it, is still an outlier.
Click to expand...
Ok so Shigaraki has 7C AP?

As long as they don't completely break the scaling I'm fine with the 7-B feats.

Damage3245 said:
We've just got to be rational about who should scale to what.

Wonky scaling comes up in almost every series and we usually ignore pieces that don't matter. Remember Whitebeard, the strongest man in the world, being stabbed by a bunch of fodder marines? And yet we don't scale fodder marines to Whitebeard in any way.

So we won't be making the rest of the Top 10 heroes scale to All Might, or the top students equal to the Top Tiers.
Click to expand...
Yh sure I can settle on that. What are other characters like Endeavor scaling to?
 
Endeavor hasn't been on the recieving end of a serious attack from Shigaraki from what I can tell. These are Endeavor's durability feats from fighting Shigaraki:

1) Blasted in the face with Air Cannon from Shigaraki, sending him flying.

2) Smashed into the ground through Ryukyu, leaving them both stunned.

3) Shigaraki charges through both Gran Torino and Endeavor, grazing them both.

4) Stabbed multiple times by Shigaraki's Rivet Quirk, sending him falling.

So #1 arguably scales to Town level through the All For One calc. #2 and #3 are from when Endeavor wasn't Shiggy's main focus or he was just playing around (taunting Endeavor afterwards), and #4 obviously doesn't count for scaling since he was stabbed straight through.
 
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