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Is this Smaug calc usable?

Hmm. If you link to both calculation blogs, I can then ask a few other calc group members to help you evaluate which of them that is most reliable.
 
I just also wonder, does Smaug scale to Gandalf? Gandalf did seem scared of him after all, and Dragons are supposedly stronger than Balrogs, but I could be wrong, I think this maybe a good read:

Concerning the Origin of Dragons

CONCERNING THE ORIGIN OF DRAGONS Introduction Of all the mysteries that Tolkien left for us to solve, the or...
cogitemusaccurate.blogspot.com cogitemusaccurate.blogspot.com

I'm not saying that my calc should be discounted though, think of it as like a low ball of sorts, like Smaug is now "at least 7-C, likely Low 7-B, possibly higher"
 
M3X_2.0 said:
First calculation seems to be more accurate when finding the shape of the mountain
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for helping out. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Smaug's page, the Lord of the Rings verse page, and any pages that scale from Smaug need to be updated accordingly then.
 
I am eager to assist you, @Antvasima, in any way that I can. Please let me know if there are any specific tasks that you would like me to complete and provide me with clear instructions. I am available and ready to assist.
 
Thank you. Maybe you can investigate the required revisions that I mentioned in my last post in this thread?
 
ImmortalDread said:
@Hagane_no_Saiyajin which characters scale to the calculation? So, I can update them accordingly.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure, so far only Smaug scales to the calc, although I have other queries on Smaug's tier:
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
I just also wonder, does Smaug scale to Gandalf? Gandalf did seem scared of him after all, and Dragons are supposedly stronger than Balrogs, but I could be wrong, I think this maybe a good read:

Concerning the Origin of Dragons

CONCERNING THE ORIGIN OF DRAGONS Introduction Of all the mysteries that Tolkien left for us to solve, the or...
cogitemusaccurate.blogspot.com cogitemusaccurate.blogspot.com

I'm not saying that my calc should be discounted though, think of it as like a low ball of sorts, like Smaug is now "at least 7-C, likely Low 7-B, possibly higher"
Click to expand...
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
I'm not sure, so far only Smaug scales to the calc, although I have other queries on Smaug's tier:
Click to expand...
Alright, since the first calculation has been accepted by majority, I will be re-editing and adjusting it accordingly.
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
I just also wonder, does Smaug scale to Gandalf? Gandalf did seem scared of him after all, and Dragons are supposedly stronger than Balrogs, but I could be wrong, I think this maybe a good read:

Concerning the Origin of Dragons

CONCERNING THE ORIGIN OF DRAGONS Introduction Of all the mysteries that Tolkien left for us to solve, the or...
cogitemusaccurate.blogspot.com cogitemusaccurate.blogspot.com

I'm not saying that my calc should be discounted though, think of it as like a low ball of sorts, like Smaug is now "at least 7-C, likely Low 7-B, possibly higher"
Click to expand...
Is the document you sent canon?
 
Also, topic off, Ant, but we don't add outdated calculation? Since I removed them from the verse page and added the current updated one. Hopes this is not concerning.
 
Does Smaug scale to Gandalf or not? Gandalf did seem scared of him after all, and in Tolkein's cosmology Dragons are supposedly stronger than Balrogs in theory, but I could be wrong
 
Maybe ask @MasterOfArda for where it was said that Gandalf was terrified of Smaug, otherwise I'll leave these quote:

To gain dominion over Arda, Morgoth had let most of his being pass into the physical constituents of the Earth—hence all things that were born on Earth and lived on and by it, beasts or plants or incarnate spirits, were liable to be ‘stained’. (Morgoth’s Ring, 394-5)
Melkor ‘incarnated’ himself (as Morgoth) permanently. He did this so as to control the hroa, the ‘flesh’ or physical matter, of Arda. He attempted to identify himself with it. A vaster, and more perilous, procedure, though of similar sort to the operations of Sauron with the Rings. Thus, outside the Blessed Realm, all ‘matter’ was likely to have a ‘Melkor ingredient’, and those who had bodies, nourished by the hroa of Arda, had as it were a tendency, small or great, towards Melkor: they were none of them wholly free of him in their incarnate form, and their bodies had an effect upon their spirits.
But in this way Morgoth lost (or exchanged, or transmuted) the greater part of his original ‘angelic’ powers, of mind and spirit, while gaining a terrible grip upon the physical world. . . . Sauron’s, relatively smaller, power was concentrated; Morgoth’s vast power was disseminated. The whole of Middle-earth was Morgoth’s Ring . . . .(Morgoth’s Ring, 399-400)
Click to expand...

The first to be corrupted by Melkor were lesser Ainur, the Maiar:
And Melkor knew of all that was done, and even then he had secret friends and spies among the Maiar whom he had converted to his cause; and far off in the darkness he was filled with hatred, being jealous of the work of his peers, whom he desired to make subject to himself. Therefore he gathered to himself spirits out of the halls of Ea that he had perverted to his service, and he deemed himself strong. (Silmarillion, 30)
For of the Maiar many were drawn to his splendour in the days of his greatness, and remained in that allegiance down into his darkness; and others he corrupted afterwards to his service with lies and treacherous gifts. (Silmarillion, 26)
Click to expand...

Then the Valar forsook for a time the Men of Middle-earth who had refused their summons and had taken the friends of Morgoth to be their masters; and Men dwelt in darkness and were troubled my many evil things that Morgoth had devised in the days of his dominion: demons, and dragons, and misshapen beasts, and unclean Orcs that are mockeries of the Children of Iluvatar. (Silmarillion, 320)
Click to expand...

The link theorizes that Dragons are Maia with this to say:

The theory that Dragons are Maiar avoids many of the problems of the previous theories. On this theory, Dragons are Maiar, ancient spirits in the form of gigantic, serpentine monsters. The fact that Maiar have the ability to take on corporeal forms has been established previously. Melkor’s deadly allies, the Balrogs, were Maiar in the raiment of fire and shroud. The wizards were Maiar in the form of Men or Elves.[7]
The problem with this theory is that the Maiar are not a race but an order of angelic (or demonic) beings created before the world began. They do not procreate one with another.[8] Their number neither increases nor decreases in the world. Dragons, however, are known to reproduce. “And I know where Mirkwood is, and the Withered Heath where the great dragons bred.” (-Thorin in The Hobbit, 19)

The theory that Dragons are the species begun from the union of Maia and beast is the most satisfying of the many theories discussed in this paper. It is consistent with the world Tolkien created. The theory takes advantage of the fact that Maiar, at times, arrayed themselves in forms of dreadful power, even in the forms of beasts and monsters. It places Melkor as the devisor of the Dragons but not as a creator of life. And it is fitting for Melkor to have allies and slaves of all kinds, including crossbreeds. That this theory is most satisfying is not surprising because it is the most impure, unholy theory, involving demons and **********; and Dragons are, after all, very evil creatures. The theory is also reminiscent of the Minotaur from Greek myths and Baal from Canaanite religion, and distantly related to Merlin of Arthurian legend and the Nephilim of Genesis; Tolkien was surely familiar with all of these.
Click to expand...

But honestly, I'm not exactly the one to be asked about on Tolkein cosmology
 
It does not mention or provide information on whether Smaug, a dragon in The Hobbit, scales to Gandalf, or if Gandalf is scared of Smaug. The text also does not mention any specific information about the comparison of strength between dragons and Balrogs in Tolkien's cosmology.

The quote provided is discussing the origins and nature of various beings in J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle-earth, including the Maiar, dragons, and the character Melkor (also known as Morgoth)
 
Gandalf does not seem to express fear towards Smaug, he is more concern about the dragon's power and how dangerous he is.
He even states that he is “not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed” when he met Smaug.

Gandalf acts as a guide and mentor to the dwarves in their quest to reclaim their homeland from the dragon.
 
Just butting in here, but regarding Gandalf's caution towards Sauron, the dialogue in the Unfinished Tales makes it rather clear that Gandalf's chief concern regarding Smaug was how Sauron might make use of him

"The Dragon Sauron might use with terrible effect. Often I said to myself: "I must find some means of dealing with Smaug. But a direct stroke against Dol Guldur is needed still more. We must disturb Sauron's plans. I must make the Council see that.'" - "The Quest of Erebor"
 
I'm personally against scaling Smaug to Gandalf the Grey. Maybe possibly higher?

Edit: For a further explanation, this is because Smaug could be an asset for Sauron's plans without scaling to Gandalf.

A great dragon like Smaug can destroy and ravage entire kingdoms in LOTR, as seen with Erebor. That would be devastating without him being a personal threat to Gandalf.
 
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