Is this not enough for total universal destruction? (yes, a DBS question)

[Nullflowerblush]

だが、その強力すぎる両者の力がぶつかったせいで、余波に耐えきれない宇宙が消滅するという危機を向かえる！
However, due to the collision of the two overly powerful forces, the universe cannot withstand the aftermath and is in danger of disappearing!

これまで以上の超絶パワーをぶつけ合った悟空とビルスの3度目の衝突は、宇宙消滅の危機を孕んだ閃光を発して地球を包み込んだ。
The third collision between Goku and Bills, who had clashed with each other with even more supreme power than before, sent out a flash of light that threatened to annihilate the universe and enveloped the earth.

This time he may not stop at planets. The entire universe might be destroyed.

He can easily destroy the entire universe.

Simply put, the two are too strong, and therefore the world will end.

If that energy disperses, the world is done for.

I get that you need some form of statement or demonstration of the entire timespace being destroyed, but c'mon. This is a bit ridiculous, dontcha think?

Numerous times, it is stated that the entire universe/the world would be annihilated and would disappear entirely. There are a lot of words being used here that would suggest- no, that scream in your face that the entirety of Universe 7, logically including its temporal components, would be wiped out by the clash between Goku and Beerus.

 

[Ganasto]

 

[JirensMom]

I get that you need some form of statement or demonstration of the entire timespace being destroyed, but c'mon. This is a bit ridiculous, dontcha think?

Numerous times, it is stated that the entire universe/the world would be annihilated and would disappear entirely. There are a lot of words being used here that would suggest- no, that scream in your face that the entirety of Universe 7, logically including its temporal components, would be wiped out by the clash between Goku and Beerus.

GO GO GO

 

[Everything12]

No this is not enough for Low 2-C. It could just be the entirety of the Universes Space. I'm going to state this now for this and all future attempts like this for all verses.

Universal destruction that does not explicitly mention Time or Timelines will assumed to not be Tier 2 regardless of how absolute or entirely the destruction is. This is the rules of the Wiki.

 

[Bernkastelll]

No this is not enough for Low 2-C. It could just be the entirety of the Universes Space. I'm going to state this now for this and all future attempts like this for all verses.

Universal destruction that does not explicitly mention Time or Timelines will assumed to not be Tier 2 regardless of how absolute or entirely the destruction is. This is the rules of the Wiki.

But why is Beerus and Champa feat a tier 2 feat

 

[Everything12]

Because it was spilling out into other Space-Times by threatening two Universes.

 

[Absolute Destruction]

But why is Beerus and Champa feat a tier 2 feat

As Beerus and Champa are destroying 2 space-time continuums. Basically any destruction statement that involve 2 or more space-time continuums would be tier 2 at default since they require to affect the space-time of those dimensions.

 

[Bernkastelll]

As Beerus and Champa are destroying 2 space-time continuums. Basically any destruction statement that involve 2 or more space-time continuums would be tier 2 at default since they require to affect the space-time of those dimensions.

But why isnt Battle of the Gods the same? If desrroying 2 universes = tier 2 by default here, why not 1?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

But why isnt Battle of the Gods the same? If desrroying 2 universes = tier 2 by default here, why not 1?

Because effecting 2 universes is automatically tier 2, but effecting 1 can be either tier 3 or tier 2, and the wiki assumes it to be tier 3 if the destruction has no mention of time being effected.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Because effecting 2 universes is automatically tier 2, but effecting 1 can be either tier 3 or tier 2, and the wiki assumes it to be tier 3 if the destruction has no mention of time being effected.

Thats weird, DB universe already is accepted as a tier 2 structure, and several statements of destruction of the Entire universe, which both the verse and the wiki already accept as at least a Low 2-C structure

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Thats weird, DB universe already is accepted as a tier 2 structure, and several statements of destruction of the Entire universe, which both the verse and the wiki already accept as at least a Low 2-C structure

Shitty standards say that even if the universe is low 2-C, destroying it is only 3-A until there's proof that they effected time.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Shitty standards say that even if the universe is low 2-C, destroying it is only 3-A until there's proof that they effected time.

The verse aknowledge it as a 4-D structure, I fail to see how destroying a 4-D structure means that u only destroyed the 3-D part of it

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The verse aknowledge it as a 4-D structure, I fail to see how destroying a 4-D structure means that u only destroyed the 3-D part of it

Yeah that feat was most likely intended to be a low 2-C feat, it should be a low 2-C feat. The universe level CRT should've been accepted.

 

[Stefano4444]

Fully agree, i have always been an advocate for the Universe busting feat in BoG to be consider a Low 2-C feat rather than a 3-A feat.

This Is due of U7's cosmology, a 3-A destruction happening in the Living World shouldn't be able to destroy the other realms like the Afterlife or the Kaioshin Realm.

 

[Absolute Destruction]

Thats weird, DB universe already is accepted as a tier 2 structure, and several statements of destruction of the Entire universe, which both the verse and the wiki already accept as at least a Low 2-C structure

Like Flully said, based on wiki logic you need to prove the universe destruction is on space-time level if it just a single space-time continuum. That been said, I think low 2-C BOG would be more consistent for the scaling.

 

[Orange]

I agree. Is it dumb, stupid and borderline idotic? Absolutely yes
wiki be like : The macrocosms in Db are space times made up from multiple universal realms.
eeveryone: makes sense, a space time is a 4-D structure, aka a low 2-C structure
the wiki: Absolutely yes
everyone: so destroying the entire 4D structures, indicate the very structure itself is going to be destroyed, thus it's a low 2-C feat since they are destroying a 4-D structure. Right?
the wiki.....: no totally not, absolutely impossible

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

As I always thought BoG is tier 2 rather than tier 3. I agree

Also staff just saying I disagree and not elabortaing yet again. How original

And now it's also on the correct thread unlike my previous mistake

 

[Sus]

regardless of dragon ball case, because i don't really care about the verse

any universe destruction indeed should be 3A unless implied or stated otherwise

 

[Orange]

Unless the universe that is getting destroyed is a space time
Plus 3-A isn't even universal destruction, just the matter inside.

 

[Sus]

Unless the universe that is getting destroyed is a space time
Plus 3-A isn't even universal destruction, just the matter inside.

3A is indeed a universal destruction, just not accounting the timeline, also all universes are spacetimes

 

[Orange]

Actually no, 3-A is just the destruction of matter, space time is fine, hence the universe isn't destroyed

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Universe level is not actually universe level, it's more like glorified multi-galaxy level (I remember someone saying this and it's funny), it's definition is that you have to destroy the observable universe with an attack from earth but you have to not effect the timeline, that's why I think that the universe being destroyed should automatically be assumed low 2-C and not 3-A since by definition, the universe itself will also include it's space time.

 

[Sus]

whatever it is, we can't assume the spacetime being destroyed by anything

(not talking about dragon ball)

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

whatever it is, we can't assume the spacetime being destroyed by anything

(not talking about dragon ball)

Well in my opinion if the "entire universe" is being effected and destroyed then that would immediately qualify for low 2-C since 3-A or universe level doesn't actually mean "the entire universe" but instead it means "the observable universe's space without time taken into account and oh you have to destroy it a certain way too". So I find it less accurate to assume that they are only destroying space with those specific conditions than it is to destroy the entire universe including time.

 

[Orange]

Why? The universe is a space time, destroying the universe itself is a low 2-C feat since you are destroying a 4-D structure

whatever it is, we can't assume the spacetime being destroyed by anything

(not talking about dragon ball)

 

[Sus]

Why? The universe is a space time, destroying the universe itself is a low 2-C feat since you are destroying a 4-D structure

most of the time, a blast would only destroy the matter in it, so it should be case by case

 

[Orange]

most of the time, a blast would only destroy the matter in it, so it should be case by case

"I'll destroy everything inside the universe " blatant 3-A
"I'll destroy the entire universe" blatant low 2-C

 

[Sus]

"I'll destroy everything inside the universe " blatant 3-A
"I'll destroy the entire universe" blatant low 2-C

that's why it's case by case

if you're sure goku is low 2C, make a CRT

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I like cheese

that's why it's case by case

if you're sure goku is low 2C, make a CRT

Let's ask everything13 to debunk it first.

 

[Sus]

I like cheese

me too

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

me too

wait what? Oh I sent that by accident.

 

[Sus]

wait what? Oh I sent that by accident.

so you don't like cheese

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

so you don't like cheese

No I do, I just wrote that but didn't mean to send it.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

I agree. Is it dumb, stupid and borderline idotic? Absolutely yes
wiki be like : The macrocosms in Db are space times made up from multiple universal realms.
eeveryone: makes sense, a space time is a 4-D structure, aka a low 2-C structure
the wiki: Absolutely yes
everyone: so destroying the entire 4D structures, indicate the very structure itself is going to be destroyed, thus it's a low 2-C feat since they are destroying a 4-D structure. Right?
the wiki.....: no totally not, absolutely impossible

 

[Orioreeem]

Since we are talking about destroying universes and time, why is destruction of even 1 second of space-time not Low 2-C? Also why does the space-time need to be as big as the universe for it to qualify for Low 2-C, if you were destroying a room, that has it's own space-time, across past present and future wouldn't it also be Low 2-C? As far as i know both of these would be Low 2-C mathematically.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Since we are talking about destroying universes and time, why is destruction of even 1 second of space-time not Low 2-C? Also why does the space-time need to be as big as the universe for it to qualify for Low 2-C, if you were destroying a room, that has it's own space-time, across past present and future wouldn't it also be Low 2-C? As far as i know both of these would be Low 2-C mathematically.

question 1 answer: because that wouldn't qualify for 4D. I don't know what destroying a portion of time would be like 1 second or a year of a timeline, it's either 3-A or high 3-A but no one I know knows this. But for low 2-C you have to destroy or create a space time continuum, which is equivalent to as many 3-A universes as there are infinitesimal moments of time, which is uncountably infinite, which is why you need to destroy the whole thing to qualify for the tier.
question 2 answer: This is wiki standard, usually you have to prove that a space time is infinitely superior to a 3D space for it to qualify as 4D, usually small space times like this aren't assumed to be infinitely superior in the verse or something so they took a universe size as a baseline so it won't be considered non trivial. You can have a room be low 2-C for example but you need some strong evidence though. Or something like that, I don't remember the answer to this very well so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Absolute Destruction]

3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can destroy all celestial bodies within a volume at least equivalent to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a universe of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

Like @Orange said, based on the description 3-A destruction is really just "destroy everything inside the universe". Although I can already predict it any low 2-C BOG CRT would get reject, as always

 

[ZillertheBucko]

3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can destroy all celestial bodies within a volume at least equivalent to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a universe of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

Like @Orange said, based on the description 3-A destruction is really just "destroy everything inside the universe". Although I can already predict it any low 2-C BOG CRT would get reject, as always

if it gets rejected you can just do it again
eventually someone competent is gonna accept it right?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

As far as i know if you destroy 1 second of time you are still destroying uncountably infinite 3-A universes because there are uncountably infinite amount of moments between first and second second

I don't know if that is actually uncountably infinite or not, it sounds like it since the amount of real numbers between 1 and 0 is uncountably infinite, but they don't consider that low 2-C. I suggest you make a q and a thread about this and tag me in it.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

King Crimson low 2-C????

Since we are talking about destroying universes and time, why is destruction of even 1 second of space-time not Low 2-C? Also why does the space-time need to be as big as the universe for it to qualify for Low 2-C, if you were destroying a room, that has it's own space-time, across past present and future wouldn't it also be Low 2-C? As far as i know both of these would be Low 2-C mathematically.