Is it possible the World of Void (DBS) is an outerverse?

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What is the point of this thread anymore?

 

[Lanens]

1-A doesn't "exist outside" spacetime. It transcends all concepts of physical laws including but not limited to: space, time, higher and lower spatial dimensioms, higher and lower temporal dimensions, causality, physicality, mathematics (as we understand it), and existing at a level where algorithms cannot solve it. Even fundamental logic is violated. So please tell me again, how is the World of Void even slightly similar? It's just an empty realm where there is neither space or time.

Why does a 1-A need to transcend mathematics, algorithms, and fundamental logic?

I agree, why does an 1-A need to transcends those concepts, the standard definitions is that it should be beyond dimensional scale, nothing more.

 

[Sera_EX]

I can prove it geometrically. Being beyond dimensional scale means you transcend basic implications of mathematics, such as geometry, in this system. That's because here we don't differentiate between types of multiverses, just levels dimensionality per its geometric definition.

 

[Agnaa]

Many things in this universe are beyond "basic implications" of mathematics and logic. In fact, stuff like calculus and infinities were utilized in scientific/mathematic fields long after dimensionless ideas, such as Plato's theory of forms.

I don't know how you can consider ideas conceptualized thousands of years ago "less basic" than those conceptualized hundreds. I can only see you meaning "1-As are beyond our descriptions of dimensioned reality" which is a no-brainer.

 

[Not_Jake]

You don't need to be beyond all concepts to be 1-A ƒÿ¡ƒÿ¡ƒÿ¡ idk why people still think that, all you have to be beyond are the concepts of space, time and dimensions + whatever you'd be beyond by virtue of that.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

I can prove it geometrically. Being beyond dimensional scale means you transcend basic implications of mathematics, such as geometry, in this system. That's because here we don't differentiate between types of multiverses, just levels dimensionality per its geometric definition.

While I see where you're going with this, I think this just overcomplicates it and undermines the fact that an outerverse in any fictional setting is still strictly an artistic idea that will vary between author to author. I think it's best to say that an outerverse is a realm that transcends dimensionality and leave it at that. Anything more is up to the author.

When fictional settings do intruduce outerversal concepts, they're getting to that point where things start to sound like nonsense. It's better to leave it up to the author if they want to take it to rediculous levels of transcending logic, mathematics and what-not. Most of the time, I don't even take it seriously when fictional verses take it that far, because quite frankly, a lot of it is nonsense. It's the very thing Suggsverse is guilty of. Take Azathoth for instants. He's beyond dimensionality, time, space and what-not. There's also the fear that he can wake up at any moment because all of existence is his dream. Wait, wake up at any moment? The idea of a "moment" should be beyond him, since moments only make sense within the concept of time. And awake and asleep are duailities. He should be beyond duality. He should be both awake and asleep at the same time, as well as neither of those things. The very concept that awake and asleep are opposites, should be irrelevent to him. But no. The narrative very explicitely says that he's asleep. It's central to the character that he's a slumbering deity.

Plus, dimensionality is simply a field of mathematics and physics. It does not encompass all mathematics. Imagine an outerverse that contains dimensional realities within it. And it also has other mathematically structured realities that are not based on dimensionality, but based on some other mathematical structure. Those other mathematically structured realities wouldn't be beyond dimensional realities. They would simply be side by side, both existing in the greater outerverse.

Afterall, the real life 11-dimensional string theory is still not varified. There may come a day where the theory is defunct and some new mathematical theory unrelated to dimensions is used in place of it. Or better yet, 11-dimensional string theory does get verified, but it's not the whole picture. There's something beyond the 11 dimensions, but it's not more dimensions. But it's still something that can be described mathematically and scientifically.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

What @Not Jake is basically trying to say:

• 1-A = Characters having conceptual superiority to the concept of dimensions, conceptual superiority of all of space & time, and/or any conceptual superiority over any concept that will allow the charaacter to trascend and be considered as a 1-A in an similar manner.
• High 1-A = Trascends all 1-As, trascends all concepts (which is basically Omnilock & only High 1-As & Tier 0s should have that, nobody else) but unlike Tier 0s, they have weaknesses & limitations (it doesn't matter how many weaknesses does a High 1-A have, as along as they have omnilock, something like that will not change their tier in any way, shape, or form).

Anyways, I'm gonna leave my responses for the main topic in a new reply.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Before I respond to the @Melee's replies real quick, first off....

@Outerversal "If they were outerversal,then they would be above the concept of fighting."


Don't take this the wrong way, I respect your opinion and all but this almost doesn't sound right & making it hard for whether I should agree or disagree with your statement of how you mentioned it there.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Melee

1. An outerverse exists outside all of space-time & all infinite spatial dimensions that exists (something that Dragon Ball does not have if you were not aware of that by now).

2. Even if you exist in a void outside of space-time, you are still adjacent to the multiverse but don't transcend it entirely unlike an actual outerverse, which exists outside & transcends the entire multiverse, regardless of its size.

For DB's WoV (World of Void or Null Realm), it apparently contradicts itself since it is still bounded to Time itself as certain users that use Time-based abilities were still able to work while in the void (which should logicially not be possible and thus makes the WoV not a true void at all).

3. To summarize all together, there already has been various reasons that disprove the WoV from working as an outerverse due to the lack of necessities to be considered as one (a question that you probably asked everyone here earlier about).

 

[Sera_EX]

You guys are misinterpreting what I'm saying. I know this Tier System and its implications like the back of my hand. I'm not saying you don't either. I'm saying one thing yet you are interpreting it in a different way for whatever reason. There are things that are technically dimensionless by certain standards yet we don't treat them as such.

For us, 1-A is indeed a metaphysical constant that transcends all possible laws of physics. Please stop arguing otherwise or the staff might see it as "a danger to the system" and close this thread (though it doesn't even serve much purpose now anyway, discussion is good nonetheless). This is the definition of 1-A. No, you do not need to transcend all concepts to be 1-A, I never ever said that. Hell, I know transcending mathematics is not even possible, at least in fiction, so we take it by a more generalized meaning, which is why I said "basic math". What? You think by "basic" I meant "2+3=5" levels of basic?

Beyond-dimensionality can exist within dimensionality. Did you know that? But of course we can't have that in our system because it's incompatible. It would break the system. Even a basic Layered Multiverse might have several beyond-dimensional worlds within otherwise dimensional ones. That itself can be proven mathematically. Energy, as I said, is technically dimensionless. Souls, being metaphysical abstractions, are technically dimensionless for they are describing something transcendent of all possible variations of physics.

I'm not insulting anyone or belittling anyone else's intelligence, but you guys should know exactly what I mean and all the exceptions and technicalities that come with it by default without having to bring it up as if I don't know that. I clearly do. Math is the study of proofs. If it can be proven, it can be solved by math. Do you want me to prove it? The fact that beyond-dimensionality on VSBW means something incomprehensible to us lower-dimensional beings and the highest dimensional ones is defintive proof that it is "beyond math".

For example, in Tenchi Muyo there is a scientific databse that can perform all possible algorithms to solve theories regarding higher-dimensions, but couldn't even grasp the concept of Tokimi (1-A), claiming her existence to be scientifically and mathematically impossible. That's because our system goes by how Tenchi Muyo, Cthulhu Mythos, and Umineko treat dimensions. Not how modern physics interprets them.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Sera

I was mainly focusing on @Melee's responses only, so I wasn't really paying much attention to everyone else, my apologies if I wasn't giving much attention to yours.

"For us, 1-A is indeed a metaphysical constant that transcends all possible laws of physics. Please stop arguing otherwise or the staff might see it as "a danger to the system" and close this thread (though it doesn't even serve much purpose now anyway, discussion is good nonetheless). This is the definition of 1-A. No, you do not need to transcend all concepts to be 1-A, I never ever said that. Hell, I know transcending mathematics is not even possible, at least in fiction, so we take it by a more generalized meaning, which is why I said ,basic math". What? You think by "basic" I meant "2+3=5" levels of basic?"

Yes, that is one of the main definitions of 1-A that we can understand and generally accept as true statement. "No, you do not need to transcend all concepts to be 1-A, I never ever said that." Nobody said that you mentioned it specifically and that statement was an add-on to Jake's explanation to everyone else who still believes in that claim.

"Beyond-dimensionality can exist....Not how modern physics interprets them."

I'm assuming that you are mentioning this response to everyone else, so carry on with this.

 

[Sera_EX]

Everything I wrote was in response to everyone else.

 

[Agnaa]

@Sera I think I was largely taking what you're saying literally. With you directly saying that 1-As transcend mathematics as we understand it, transcend algorithms, and transcend fundamental logic.

I know you understand the tiering system way more than me, but it seems like you're lumping things in which usually apply to 1-As, or may even apply to all 1-As on the site, and broaden those qualities to be part of the definition of 1-A, or you at least use such flowery and unnecessary language that people could take it that way (it's pretty irresponsible to say that 1-As transcend basic math, users unfamiliar with the tiering system could take that literally).

 

[Hizack123]

Pls comeback on the topic.

I thought that we talking about "is world of void could be outerverse?" Not "what is outerverse?"

 

[Sera_EX]

It's not an outerverse. That's been proven multiple times in the thread already.

 

[Hizack123]

It's not an outerverse. That's been proven multiple times in the thread already.

There we go

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Hizack I also answered that question earlier too you know.

 

[Hizack123]

@Hizack I also answered that question earlier too you know.

Good but yeah from what seen it just you guy are going out of topic.

Now that question have been answer shall we close the thread?

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Hizack It was more of a mix of both but anyways yea, I would also prefer that this thread should be closed as the OP's question has been answered.