Information about Kakashi, and raikiri

[Mattheus198]

Raikiri/Chidori

As explained by Guy, this technique it is a movement reserved for assasination, the secret lies in the speed of the thrust and the immense chakra produced by activating one's flesh. And it is also emphasized by Kakashi who claims that its secrets lie in the almost impossible speed of its stroke and the immense chakra focused in the arm.
in short, this technique works as a speed multiplier, and particularly can only be used by Sharingan users because of its disadvantages.

The amount of speed multiplied is quite high, because making a parallel with Kakashi and Guy, both in the base form are MHS+ and have well matched speeds;
In the great ninja war, Kakashi with raikiri managed to accompany Guy with 6 gates.
As we know, the 8 internal gates function as a power multiplier.

The speed of pre-war Kakashi and Kakashi in war

As posted on your profile, Pre-war kakashi is classified as MHS+, while war kakashi is sub-rel. However, the pre-war version is in the same form as in the war, because Kakashi has not undergone any training in a few chapters. Furthermore, he managed to accompany Guy with 6 gates due to the speed multiplier that the raikiri gives.
I'll even give you the best examples:

* Kakashi before the war has fought and keeps up with Hidan, who is MHS+, however when Kakashi uses raikiri in Kakuzu, no one literally sees him attacking akatsuki.

** Kakashi in the great ninja war, He fought and accompanied Zabuza edo, who was classified as MHS+.


Anyway, I came to emphasize the power of raikiri as a multiplier and how pre-war Kakashi was in the same shape as he was in the war

 

[KingTempest]

Following.
Your examples are good, but they're very controversial

 

[DuDE01010]

Interesting.

 

[Damage3245]

So is the proposal to make Kakashi in the war MHS+ with Sub-Rel attack speed with Raikiri?

 

[Mattheus198]

Following.
Your examples are good, but they're very controversial

Well, I even think it is very plausible, since Base Guy MHS+ kept up with Kakashi, and Obito was practically teasing everyone, as Madara quotes.

 

[Mattheus198]

So is the proposal to make Kakashi in the war MHS+ with Sub-Rel attack speed with Raikiri?

That both versions reach high 7-A with the raikiri, but considering that the reaction is sub-rel.
I forgot to include as the raikiri / chidori as a speed multiplier at least 5x, given the achievements.

 

[KingTempest]

So, you want all Kakashi's to be the same speed rating?

That'd be hard for a few reasons.
1. He matched Obito w/out Raikiri, same Obito who's Sub-Rel
2. He dodges offguard attacks from Jins, same Jins who can match KCM Naruto, who's Sub-Rel

So unless we rate them lower, these are a few feats

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So, you want all Kakashi's to be the same speed rating?

That'd be hard for a few reasons.
1. He matched Obito w/out Raikiri, same Obito who's Sub-Rel
2. He dodges offguard attacks from Jins, same Jins who can match KCM Naruto, who's Sub-Rel

So unless we rate them lower, these are a few feats

Tbf, Kakashi's 1v1 with Obito was against an Obito that was holding back so that he could get Kakashi to destroy his heart with a Raikiri to get the seal off of it.

 

[KingTempest]

Tbf, Kakashi's 1v1 with Obito was against an Obito that was holding back so that he could get Kakashi to destroy his heart with a Raikiri to get the seal off of it.

Alright. Doesn't discredit the second feat

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Alright. Doesn't discredit the second feat

I know.

 

[LordTracer]

Tbf, Kakashi's 1v1 with Obito was against an Obito that was holding back so that he could get Kakashi to destroy his heart with a Raikiri to get the seal off of it.

Is Obito actually stated to be holding back though?

 

[KingTempest]

Is Obito actually stated to be holding back though?

Not at all.

You do realize Pain and SM Naruto scale correct? Making Pain and SM Naruto > 4th Raikage?

 

[KingTempest]

Wait

The speed of pre-war Kakashi and Kakashi in war

As posted on your profile, Pre-war kakashi is classified as MHS+, while war kakashi is sub-rel. However, the pre-war version is in the same form as in the war, because Kakashi has not undergone any training in a few chapters.

This would apply to more than just spede you know that right?

 

[Mattheus198]

So, you want all Kakashi's to be the same speed rating?

That'd be hard for a few reasons.
1. He matched Obito w/out Raikiri, same Obito who's Sub-Rel
2. He dodges offguard attacks from Jins, same Jins who can match KCM Naruto, who's Sub-Rel

So unless we rate them lower, these are a few feats

There is no need to lower the speed of others, because Guy base is MHS + and was not even able to hit him with 6 gates. Obito was playing with him in both versions.

Furthermore, Kakashi in base form constantly stays with Guy base, and when uses the gates, Kakashi needs the raikiri to accompany him.

About the fight of Kakashi vs Obito in dimension, it was basically a way that Obito created for Kakashi to take the seal from his heart. If Obito wanted to kill him, he would have been easily killed by judging by the arsenal that Kakashi has no answer and by his performance with Naruto MK and Guy with 6 gates.

About Kakashi vs jins, he only had reaction (as I pointed out in the topic) to the attack of the Jins, unlike them who dodged attacks, they are paired but only with the raikiri as shown by the deeds.

 

[LordTracer]

Guy base is MHS +

Oh don’t worry, I will be downgrading that soon enough.

 

[KingTempest]

There is no need to lower the speed of others, because Guy base is MHS + and was not even able to hit him with 6 gates.

You mean with Kamui that makes him not get touched?

Obito was playing with him in both versions.

Alright

About Kakashi vs jins, he only had reaction (as I pointed out in the topic) to the attack of the Jins, unlike them who dodged attacks, they are paired but only with the raikiri as shown by the deeds.

Top panel.

 

[Mattheus198]

Oh don’t worry, I will be downgrading that soon enough.

Then you have to update the entire verse.

 

[LordTracer]

Then you have to update the entire verse.

Well it’s gonna be a revision for all of Part I so I was prepared for that.

 

[Mattheus198]

You mean with Kamui that makes him not get touched?

Alright

Top panel.

Well, obito basically fights like this to get an advantage, he reacts like that.

 

[Mattheus198]

Well it’s gonna be a revision for all of Part I so I was prepared for that.

I see, I think I answered you in the other topic, can you answer me?

 

[KingTempest]

You do realize Pain and SM Naruto scale correct? Making Pain and SM Naruto > 4th Raikage?

 

[Mattheus198]

Was that for me? If so, what is the relationship?

 

[LordTracer]

I definitely disagree with the idea of the Raikiri being a massive amp and Kakashi’s strength being stagnant. Kakashi got stronger in between Part I and II and he got MASSIVELY stronger before the War Arc.

Part II Kakashi got slightly overpowered by Kakuzu, but War Arc Kakashi was swapping hands with Obito, the same Obito that overpowered KCM Naruto. And I don’t want to hear that “Obito was holding back” stuff, because that isn’t stated or even implied tbh. Obito letting Kakashi stab him at the very end of their fight doesn’t mean he wasn’t trying throughout the rest of it.

And if you wanna talk speed, like Tempest said, Pain and SM Naruto would scale. Hell, Pain reacted to a Raikiri at point-blank range. KCM Naruto > SM Naruto, and guess who scales to KCM with his normal combat speed? That’s right, Kakashi scales to KCM with his normal combat speed.

 

[KingTempest]

Was that for me? If so, what is the relationship?

 

[Mattheus198]

I definitely disagree with the idea of the Raikiri being a massive amp and Kakashi’s strength being stagnant. Kakashi got stronger in between Part I and II and he got MASSIVELY stronger before the War Arc.

Part II Kakashi got slightly overpowered by Kakuzu, but War Arc Kakashi was swapping hands with Obito, the same Obito that overpowered KCM Naruto. And I don’t want to hear that “Obito was holding back” stuff, because that isn’t stated or even implied tbh. Obito letting Kakashi stab him at the very end of their fight doesn’t mean he wasn’t trying throughout the rest of it.

And if you wanna talk speed, like Tempest said, Pain and SM Naruto would scale. Hell, Pain reacted to a Raikiri at point-blank range. KCM Naruto > SM Naruto, and guess who scales to KCM with his normal combat speed? That’s right, Kakashi scales to KCM with his normal combat speed.

You are unaware that Zabuza edo stayed with Kakashi war arc, as well as Guy base (MHS +) being in the story.

Obito reacts to Naruto MK and Guy with 6 gates that he only kept with Kakashi with raikiri, and do you think it's not the fact that Obito wants him to take his seal off his heart?


Kakuzu did not put pressure on Kakashi at any time that could be considered in real combat. Kakashi was being pressured by 2 akatsukis and protecting a team

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Part II Kakashi got slightly overpowered by Kakuzu, but War Arc Kakashi was swapping hands with Obito, the same Obito that overpowered KCM Naruto. And I don’t want to hear that “Obito was holding back” stuff, because that isn’t stated or even implied tbh. Obito letting Kakashi stab him at the very end of their fight doesn’t mean he wasn’t trying throughout the rest of it.

Obito outright implies he isn’t trying by leaving after Kakashi stabs him (despite his immense pain tolerance), in order to take the Ten Tails chakra, which is further proven when he smiles after thought to be killed, which was his whole plan.

 

[Mattheus198]

All those moments Kakashi was in short range and attacked Pain, do you know that raikiri needs distance to generate a boost speed?
Now you must realize why Sasuke took the distance to attack Gaara, and when Kakashi was far away, Hidan even from the front didn't see him hitting Kakuzu.

 

[KingTempest]

All those moments Kakashi was in short range and attacked Pain, do you know that raikiri needs distance to generate a boost speed?

Where is this ever stated?
And he was very close range with the jinchuriki as well, which he scales to with Raikiri.

 

[LordTracer]

You are unaware that Zabuza edo stayed with Kakashi war arc, as well as Guy base (MHS +) being in the story.

Edo Zabuza did literally nothing aside from clashing with Kakashi once, which is not indicative of their speed scaling to each other. Base Guy is irrelevant unless you intend to explain why I should acknowledge him.

Obito reacts to Naruto MK and Guy with 6 gates that he only kept with Kakashi with raikiri, and do you think it's not the fact that Obito wants him to take his seal off his heart?

“Only kept up with Kakashi with Raikiri”

Kakuzu did not put pressure on Kakashi at any time that could be considered in real combat. Kakashi was being pressured by 2 akatsukis and protecting a team

Yeah that’s just blatantly untrue. Kakuzu could easily yeet Kakashi BY HIMSELF and Hidan evenly clashed with Kakashi BY HIMSELF. If Kakashi was as strong as he was in the War Arc, where he could take hits from V2 Jinchūriki that overpowered KCM, neither of those things would have happened.

 

[LordTracer]

Where is this ever stated?

Yes, I’m extremely curious where it’s stated that Raikiri needs distance to become a >>5x multiplier as well.

 

[KingTempest]

Don't get me wrong.

I personally believe that Kakashi didn't have a huge growth, but
1. The proof given will trigger some people
2. The proof will make scaling weird as heck

 

[Mattheus198]

Where is this ever stated?
And he was very close range with the jinchuriki as well, which he scales to with Raikiri.

In my topic is the explanation for your question.

In your own scan, didn't you see him running to get an impulse?

 

[KingTempest]

In my topic is the explanation for your question.

In your own scan, didn't you see him running to get an impulse?

So he needs to take a few steps to get the speed boost.

He ran as well against Pain, which makes it consistent

 

[Mattheus198]

Don't get me wrong.

I personally believe that Kakashi didn't have a huge growth, but
1. The proof given will trigger some people
2. The proof will make scaling weird as heck

bro, it doesn't raise the tier of anyone that Kakashi fought, nobody managed to accompany him with the raikiri, only the sub-relatives

 

[LordTracer]

He ran as well against Pain, which makes it consistent

And Sub-Rel Pain means Sub-Rel combat speed for War Arc Kakashi, which effectively renders the point of this thread null.

 

[Mattheus198]

So he needs to take a few steps to get the speed boost.

He ran as well against Pain, which makes it consistent

He needs to run a little to get that speed, yes, just like Guy with the gates, Lee himself is a good example.

 

[KingTempest]

bro, it doesn't raise the tier of anyone that Kakashi fought, nobody managed to accompany him with the raikiri, only the sub-relatives

He needs to run a little to get that speed, yes, just like Guy with the gates, Lee himself is a good example.

2 different paths of pain last-minute dodged Raikiri after Kakashi ran with it.
Kakashi ran with this

And a Path of Pain was able to intercept it.

Haku also scales

 

[LordTracer]

Haku is SoL tho

 

[KingTempest]

Haku is SoL tho

Only between 2 mirrors,
This is mirror to no mirror

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Kakashi before the war has fought and keeps up with Hidan, who is MHS+, however when Kakashi uses raikiri in Kakuzu, no one literally sees him attacking akatsuki.

I would like to point out that nobody saw him creeping up on Kakuzu because he was hiding.