Infinite universe DB Redux

[Omegabronic]

No one is talking about size. Everyone agrees that it’s not to scale. We are speaking solely on the visual appearance of the Universe.

Size is LITTERALLY part of appearence, if you admit that the structures aren't of the size presented there then you are admiting that this ISN'T WHAT THEIR APPEARENCE IS

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Guys, call me when human technology will be able to accurately recreate the visual of something infinite.

 

[Chariot190]

No its not, its literally just the flash of light, thats all, its not shinning off of dimensional barriers lmao, thats not how it works, since the barriers are just the fabric of space and time, not some physical ******* glass barrier or something.

And yet that's exactly what's happening. What do you want me to say? It is what it is, sucks to suck, I ain't toei.

They aren't interacting with it physically,

Literally are?

and again, none of this matters at all since its not an actual accurate representation of the universe. Why are you treating the universes as though they are just glass balls that you can bounce up and down?

Dude, if the SINGLE TIME we actually see the thing, has them shown like that, like it or not, it is what it is.
They're accurate because they're the ONLY representation worth a damn.

No they aren't, they are not translucent,

So it's just painted on then?

you can't really depict spacetime barriers as anything but just, space itself, the fabric, because thats what it is.

Except in the hundreds of media that do exactly that?
Such as this?

What do you think a spatialtemporal barrier even is? Can you tell me? Because I have the feeling that you don't know.

Hey man, I never said a anime written and animated by a bunch of middle aged japanese men know perfect science. That doesn't change the fact tat's how THEY depicted it, much like all the other wack ass anime that do.

Are you arguing because it isn't 100% realistic it's somehow fake? God forbid if we used that logic everywhere.

"I said, how do we know?" No there's none of that, either prove that its the case or your claim is literally baseless and you're ignoring how spacetime actually works.

Tough luck. We, quite literally, see that's how it's depicted.

Just because you want to go on about completely unrelated factors like "ya cant do that", dont mean shit, maybe they can, maybe they cant, it doesnt matter. What does is that we see it, it is what it is, and your proposal is wrong because of it and no amount of mental gymnastics is going to make what we see not what it actually s.

I dont have to prove that beerus punching the universe wont shatter like physical glass because thats not how it works, or has ever worked when dealing with the fabric of spacetime. Its not some physical window glass barrier separating the universes.

I never said you had to? Have you even been following the conversation?
You argued that space-time cracks, I said for all we know it could do the same if Beerus punched it or some shit. And you somehow take to mean anything? The point, was, that your point, means nothing. It isn't evidence for, or against it. We don't how it'd act if damaged, so acting like it wouldn't so nuh uh, isn't an argument.

The light is shining across the neutral space, we dont even know if you can see this light from within the universes when its coming from the neutral space, so again thats a nothing point.

What? Who gives a damn if they can see it? And no, the light is animated over the dome, quite literally, there's the bright light in the middle yes, bu the weird fucky energy looking stuff, is actively moving along the dome, and only the dome, it's surface to be exact.

That very fact makes this whole argument useless, they exist, we know they're there, what we see is what we get.

Not really, point is that we see both depictions of the universes in real time lmao.

"very tiny universes not located in real space, blatantly not where they actually exist due to the very concept of neutral space and te U6 arc" = "the actual universe, like literally just it"
Yeah nice try tho.

Its not accurate at ALL, there are so many things wrong with the macrocosms looking like that its not even funny, like just taking a quick glance at it would tell anybody its not accurate in the slightest.

Again, self fulfilling.

We dont see ANY of the other realms at all, it cant be 100 percent accurate.

Or do we? Hell if we know, all we know, is that that, is Uni7, straight up, no fluff or bullshit. If it contradicts stuff, sucks, but that's the only time we actually see it.

No this is just you ignoring everything about the show, statements, and showings we already know about the cosmology,

Dude, I am literally the only person in this conversation NOT ignoring the show.

pushing a narrative that makes no logical sense at all,

And that's my fault how? I'm not Toei, doesn't change the fact that's how it is.

ignoring the tiering system, ignoring how higher dimensional spaces work, universal separation, literally everything.

Except I'm not? The assumption that they'd look finite, isn't true? That isn't how it works? And the show literally shows them, in that VERY scene no less, as just enclosed universes, in a, well, ironically, a neutral space.

Our standards only work if they abide by it, DBZ literally shows us different, so we use that instead. That's how any verse works.

Its not made up, its simply how it is, spacetimes are made up of uncountable 3D objects anyway, so they are infinite by default,

Not only is it quite literally conjecture, you realize you're making a self fulfilling argument again?
Newsflash, I'm arguing they aren't infinite to begin with, them having uncountable stuff ain't accepted yet, hence the CRT. And uncountable ain't even infinite either, it can just mean, well, not feasibly reachable by counting?
I'll just repeat what I said before
" Your whole argument is based on preconceived notions, and assumptions it has to look a certain way, presuming because blatant maps and abstractions were inconsistent that this is too, and a whole bunch of stuff, based solely on incredulity or self-fulfillment.
Fact of the matter is, we have no idea how that shit is supposed to look in actuality, how it'd look, how them being divided would look (id assume not that different given the very existence of the unis themselves kinda proves all that stuff can be shoved in one space separated by dimension walls that we evidently see aren't opaque), all to somehow handwave the very fact we see it."

and if they cannot interact with each other,

"If", not "is". Why are you assuming this?

that also means they have to be separated by a higher axis so they're spatialtemporal infinities do not collide with each other, the spatial axes are orthogonal.

Dude, they are literally just universes in enclosed space times floating in the middle of some neutral ass space that even Bulma can **** around in fine
Literally proving my point, you're so focused on random cosmology dimensional fuckery standards, you're not even following the very verse anymore.

Being in the neutral zone will make them look finite yes, as ive said,

It LITERALLY wouldn't, what the hell is this even coming from? It isn't the same as a higher D mf like Mr. Myx looking down at Supes if that's what you're geing at.

im bout to be done with this back and forth if you keep ignoring standards and rules for the verse we already have in place.

Standards don't even say what you're saying, which is kind of why I'm baffled you keep clinging to them.
And rules for the verse? In a thread attempting to change them? You realize anything is up for debate right if it involves the topc at hand yes?

I have a thread where this exact same thing was actually brought up, its agreed that the universes aren't actual depictions of them at all, how the neutral zone is higher dimensional no matter what, and by default.

Yeah, true, except 1. 10$ says it was talking about the bunch of wacky non literal maps and whatnot 2. Not the literal universe as seen 3. If it was, I'd be willing to change it? Shit can always change and I'm willing to bite that bullet even if it's just "hey this specific instance should be exempt", which, well duh, it ain't an abstracted map or not to scale, ignoring it is just trying to handwave a contradiction you don't like.

And I'm not saying the neutral zone ain't 5D, but I am saying that means nothing for how the unis themselves get depicted.

This is just old arguments brought back up for no reason at all.

Literally not the case, you kinda keep veering off and bringing up old shit for some reason as if it affects the argument. Of course I'm gonna have to reply if you keep bring it up.
My argument, at the end of the day is
"Yeah but I ain't talking about depicting neutral space, I'm talking about depicting the universe, as a bunch of galaxies and whatnot enclosed in a dimensional wall that just so happens to be uni sized that we can see through, all happening without abstractions, with said uni even interacting, in real time, with a character proving, that how we see it in that instance isn't a mere visual abstraction."

 

[Chariot190]

Guys, call me when human technology will be able to accurately recreate the visual of something infinite.

that's why you dont show it to begin with and just drop a few lines of text

 

[Unqver]

A single universe is infinite? Then I agree.

 

[Excellence616]

I agree

 

[RanHover60]

Leaning to disagree rn. What changes would infinite universes have considering everyone’s already 2C?

 

[Chariot190]

Leaning to disagree rn. What changes would infinite universes have considering everyone’s already 2C?

it'd make BoG and up infinite speed, not like it'd matter given it'd be an outlier, nor does that affect the validity of whether the uni is actually that big or not.
but yeah it'd affect that, derailing tho.

 

[Hasty12345]

Going to have to disagree, any evidence from the Z era is very clearly retconned in Super by the universe only ever being portrayed as finite and the justifications for hand waving the blatant contradictions aren’t convincing.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't really agree with making the physical universe of Dragon Ball infinite.

I disagree with infinite universes as well.

Ditto.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Then I guess the verse ain't even 2-C then.

Agree, make anyone 3-A outside the Low 2-C Zeno.

 

[Killerdrone123]

You know let's just keep aside super what about toei and gt they don't have any visual contradictions

 

[Chariot190]

You know let's just keep aside super what about toei and gt they don't have any visual contradictions

I would agree with GT and what not, but, we have the funny same cosmology shit going.
Can't have both, if one is, both are.

 

[Hasty12345]

You know let's just keep aside super what about toei and gt they don't have any visual contradictions

You can't pick and choose when to composite the cosmology.

If you want to uncomposite the cosmology, make a thread.

 

[TiltedFN]

Was going to type a response, but I'm slowly realizing that I'm only arguing with chariot and no staff care to elaborate on why they actually disagree with this for some reason, its more like an fra train. So I'm pretty much just wasting my time, I know its not going to be accepted, so I would like this thread to be closed please.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I would agree with GT and what not, but, we have the funny same cosmology shit going.

As a further confirmation of this:

Q: How would you position the Dragon Ball Z anime (TV series)?

A:I consider the TV animation to be in "one dimension" with the Manga. I have what I call Canon, which is the TV series and the original, printed comic edition works that are directly tied into continuity.

Toriyama himself treats the anime and manga to be the same in his eyes, meaning that the cosmology has to be the same.

 

[Stefano4444]

I always knew figurative language's argument was bulls**t, and the visual argument its also weak since infinite its impossible to be visualized.

Anyway i also agree.

 

[Hasty12345]

I always knew figurative language's argument was bulls**t.

Anyway i also fully agree.

It's not figurative language, it's just retconned content whether people want to accept it or not.

 

[Damage3245]

I would agree with GT and what not, but, we have the funny same cosmology shit going.
Can't have both, if one is, both are.

I'm fine with totally separating Toei / GT from the rest of the series' cosmology.

 

[TiltedFN]

I'm fine with totally separating Toei / GT from the rest of the series' cosmology.

Can I have this closed.

 

[Ednaxel2]

4 pages already in just a few hours man

 

[Damage3245]

Can I have this closed.

Sure.

Looks like that prediction of 5 pages didn't come true.