INCON GRACE [3-0-4] - Xeno Broly vs Toei Vegito

[Nonynho]

Fight is at a minecraft superflat bedrock-only seed (they're players, so indestructible ground)
Speed is equal, to make things easier
Xeno Broly is at his first key
Broly starts at SSJ3
They start 4m apart

Xeno Broly: @Mickey1940, @Nonynho, @Jackythejack

Toei Vegito:

Incon: @Drite77, @Anonymous_Learner, @Supersonicmaker, @AppleMaker

 

[Vietthai96]

Broly have

• Statistics Manipulation (Broly can use many of his abilities to greatly increase his statistics. Can reduce an enemy's statistics with many of his abilities.)
• Durability Negation
  • Energy & Internal Structures (Comparable to CC Gogeta who can imbue energy into the opponent’s abdomen and detonate internally, bypassing durability by causing a massive explosion from within the body.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Broly_(Dragon_Ball_Heroes)#cite_note-DBS:BM-38"><span>[</span>38<span>]</span></a><a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Broly_(Dragon_Ball_Heroes)#cite_note-DBS:BN-39"><span>[</span>39<span>]</span></a>)
  • Other (Can ignore and bypass his opponent's durability and defensive skills<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/B...gon_Ball_Heroes_God_Mission_Card_Abilities-40"><span>[</span>40<span>]</span></a>)
• Minor Power Modification (Can reduce his opponent's durability, defensive skill/abilities<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/B...all_Heroes_Original_Mission_Card_Abilities-41"><span>[</span>41<span>]</span></a>)
• Damage Boost (Can actively boost his damage<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/B...agon_Ball_Heroes_Arcade_Original_Mission_8-42"><span>[</span>42<span>]</span></a>)
• Restoration (Can passively recover his Stamina<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/B...agon_Ball_Heroes_Arcade_Original_Mission_7-43"><span>[</span>43<span>]</span></a>)
• Stamina Manipulation(Can swap his stamina with his opponent's stamina. Can reset his opponent's stamina value to its initial state, but requires 2 allies. Can reduce his opponent stamina via normal attacks or special skills.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/B...ite_note-Dragon_Ball_Heroes_Game_Abilities-44"><span>[</span>44<span>]</span></a>)
  • Status Effect Inducement (Paralysis; Can disable all of his opponents abilities, powers and actions by reducing their stamina to zero, making them unable to act.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/B...ite_note-Dragon_Ball_Heroes_Game_Abilities-44"><span>[</span>44<span>]</span></a>)

He just.....stomp

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Also you can't restrict abilities that don't raise the user's tier so Vegito can use Super Saiyan.

 

[Vietthai96]

Also you can't restrict abilities that don't raise the user's tier so Vegito can use Super Saiyan.

Yeah, this is correct,

But Broly still stomp anyway

 

[Shar122]

Dimensional domain GG

 

[Vietthai96]

Dimensional domain GG

??????. He only has DD in his Dark Broly form, and Dark Broly is Low 1-C. OP stated he is in his first key

 

[Nonynho]

Also you can't restrict abilities that don't raise the user's tier so Vegito can use Super Saiyan.

Yeah, this is correct,

But Broly still stomp anyway

Oh yeah?

Thought i could restrict if it said "Higher" too, but if not, then he's 50x stronger (and would be faster too, but it's equalized) than Broly, since they both scale to SSJ3 Goku with the specific parameters i've indicated, so now they kinda have the same chances, since they both one-shot each other according to you...
but then it becomes a stomp for Vegito cuz he's smarter than before and has fought against Broly before (both as Goku and as Vegeta), whose Xeno profile indicates he is as smart as he was in the Toei movie and the same applies for the techniques that he uses, according to those sections:

Intelligence: Average to Below Average in General, Gifted in Combat (Same as his Toei version. [...]

Notable Attacks/Techniques: Same as his Toei counterpart

So basically, Vegito is just 50x stronger than him.
Should i switch to Buuhan, or is Broly outscaling him?

 

[Nonynho]

Broly have

He just.....stomp

i mean, the main thing IMO is that...is he intelligent to use it like a good player/like the enemy in the game uses, since he's as intelligent as Toei Broly?
Those may be advantages, but definetely not stomp-worthy

 

[Mickey1940]

Base Vegito can bully Buuhan who can bully Ultimate Gohan, and Vegito can stack Super Saiyan on top of that

Super Saiyan 3 Broly scales unquantifiably above Super Saiyan 3 Goku who could bully Ultimate Gohan just as a Super Saiyan and match him in Base

so Broly is over 400 times stronger than someone who matches Ultimate Gohan (due to the SSJ3 Multiplier), while Super Saiyan Vegito is 50 times stronger than his base self who stomps Buuhan who stomps Ultimate Gohan

this seems... pretty even? like weirdly even?

idk what to vote here

 

[Nonynho]

Base Vegito can bully Buuhan who can bully Ultimate Gohan, and Vegito can stack Super Saiyan on top of that

Super Saiyan 3 Broly scales unquantifiably above Super Saiyan 3 Goku who could bully Ultimate Gohan just as a Super Saiyan and match him in Base

so Broly is over 400 times stronger than someone who matches Ultimate Gohan (due to the SSJ3 Multiplier), while Super Saiyan Vegito is 50 times stronger than his base self who stomps Buuhan who stomps Ultimate Gohan

this seems... pretty even? like weirdly even?

that was the whole point of this, yeah! But afaik it was Base Vegito who scaled directly to SSJ3 Goku, who Broly also scales to. I wouldn't assume just from the profile claiming so that SSJ3 Broly is 50x over SSJ3 Goku, while SSJ Vegito literally is, considering the Base mentions upscaling from him

 

[Vietthai96]

i mean, the main thing IMO is that...is he intelligent to use it like a good player/like the enemy in the game uses, since he's as intelligent as Toei Broly?
Those may be advantages, but definetely not stomp-worthy

His first key his intelligent is the same as his Toei counterpart

He can jusr use Dura Neg to instantly kill Vegito, or stats hax which reduce Vegito's stats and increases his own, damage his stamina, boost his own damage

Unless Vegito can blast Broly in a few shots, he will have no chance

 

[Killerdrone123]

Broly just stomps with stats haxs and dura neg

 

[Nonynho]

Guys, y'all are forgetting that Broly can only last if Vegito doesn't turn into SSJ immediately and apply the buffs, debuffs and duraneg
If one of those ain't true, Vegito simply gets 50x stronger than him and turns him into space dust

 

[Nonynho]

OH YEAH, another thing: If his Notable Attacks section claim "Same as his Toei counterpart", it means that he will not be immediatelly using and abusing those debuffs, instead preferring what we see on the movies first

 

[Drite77]

How Mindless is this Broly when compared to the movie one? If he is still the same while in SSJ3 then he likely won't go for his haxes then this might not be a stomp

 

[Nonynho]

How Mindless is this Broly when compared to the movie one? If he is still the same while in SSJ3 then he likely won't go for his haxes then this might not be a stomp

He is basically the exact same as the movie, strategy-wise and intelligence-wise, according to the profile's notes on the matters
So because Vegito starts in base, i think this can last quite a while, too

 

[Drite77]

Ok, so if I get it, their scaling chain is:

SS3 Broly > SSJ3 Goku >(400x) Base Goku =~ Ultimate Gohan

SSJ Vegito >(50x) Base Vegito >(Stomps) Buuhan >(Stomps) Ultimate Gohan

Hm, not fully knowledgeable on Dragon Ball, but it seems if this doesn't start with Vegito in SSJ he gets AP stomped by Broly? His Scaling Chain seems better the base Vegito tbh

 

[Nonynho]

Ok, so if I get it, their scaling chain is:

SS3 Broly > SSJ3 Goku >(400x) Base Goku =~ Ultimate Gohan

SSJ Vegito >(50x) Base Vegito >(Stomps) Buuhan >(Stomps) Ultimate Gohan

Hm, not fully knowledgeable on Dragon Ball, but it seems if this doesn't start with Vegito in SSJ he gets AP stomped by Broly? His Scaling Chain seems better the base Vegito tbh

Base Vegito and SSJ3 Broly scale to SSJ3 Goku with pretty much the same term, "Superior to"

Thing is whenever Vegito gets the opportunity to turn SSJ, cuz if he does it without being debuffed, he immediately ends Broly

 

[Drite77]

Hm, I thought Xeno Broly would scale to a different Goku, so like, does the 50x multiplier for SSJ applies to speed as well?

 

[Nonynho]

Hm, I thought Xeno Broly would scale to a different Goku, so like, does the 50x multiplier for SSJ applies to speed as well?

Yep

 

[Drite77]

I think I'll go with Inconclusive here to be honest.

Vegito, based on their profiles, seems to be more skilled then Broly, and I would also wager he is a bit stronger then Broly. I don't know if Vegito will try to either end this quickly by going into Super Saiyan ASAP, or if he'll try to defeat Broly at his base form. In the manga Vegito went SSJ from the get go, but in the anime, he stayed at base form against Buu for some time.

Broly likely won't use his haxes, but I don't think it would take too long for him to do, I just don't know if he would do that before or after Vegito decides to go SSJ, and Vegito would absolutely stomp Broly, a 50x speed gap is like, almost unbeatable with the haxes Broly has.

So voting Incon for now

 

[Nonynho]

but in the anime, he stayed at base form against Buu for some time.

Since this is Toei Vegito, ig we can consider that he'll spend some time at it

I just don't know if he would do that before or after Vegito decides to go SSJ

From what we got on the Vegito fight, he'll stay like this enough for Broly to start using his debuffs.

Broly won't ever be able to reduce Vegito's speed, but he can reduce his stamina and defenses, so it's about if he can do this enough before SSJ Vegito smacks him or not

Will count ur vote and for now add one of my own, FRA

 

[Mickey1940]

that was the whole point of this, yeah! But afaik it was Base Vegito who scaled directly to SSJ3 Goku, who Broly also scales to. I wouldn't assume just from the profile claiming so that SSJ3 Broly is 50x over SSJ3 Goku, while SSJ Vegito literally is, considering the Base mentions upscaling from him

the issue with this is that I'm pretty sure Base Vegito scales above SSJ3 Goku from the Early Majin Buu Arc

He doesn't scale to Post-Vegito Diffusion SSJ3 Goku

Broly scales directly to Post-Vegito Diffusion SSJ3 Goku

which is why I'm confused about the scaling chain

 

[Nonynho]

the issue with this is that I'm pretty sure Base Vegito scales above SSJ3 Goku from the Early Majin Buu Arc

He doesn't scale to Post-Vegito Diffusion SSJ3 Goku

I'm not quite sure if that's the line, cuz Vegito is implied and told to be the craziest biggest baddest mf at the universe and a sum of Goku and Vegeta, he should scale above SSJ3 Goku at any point of the arc

 

[Nonynho]

Reading a bit more about Broly's buffs and debuffs, i got some things to say

Legendary Devil Unit
The “Super Unit Effect” by “Broly and his team” is activated. The energy of all the enemy team members is greatly reduced, and the combat power of your team is increased by 20000. Permanent

Victory Declaration
If you attack when you can activate a special move, it will attack the locked-on enemy and negate the enemy's guard and damage reduction effect. [One time only]

Brutal attack
If you become an attacker when a special move can be used, it will attack the locked on enemy and reduce the enemy's GRD by 1000

Warrior who has lost his senses
Power is increased by 3000 & CI Speed has been increased

Adrenaline Rush - Overflowing with fighting spirit!
For context, the ability boosts your power level, restores your stamina each round and prevents from being stunned

All of this added up, and by most of them being automatic, i guess we can say he's able to not instantly die whenever Vegito decides to become SSJ, though if the paralyzing does not work, speed gap may be too overwhelming for him

 

[Drite77]

Reading a bit more about Broly's buffs and debuffs, i got some things to say







All of this added up, and by most of them being automatic, i guess we can say he's able to not instantly die whenever Vegito decides to become SSJ, though if the paralyzing does not work, speed gap may be too overwhelming for him

All of that doesn't really say anything, how big are those numbers when compared to someone else? It could be big, small or middle of the road, and I don't think those can really close the 50x speed gap

 

[Nonynho]

All of that doesn't really say anything, how big are those numbers when compared to someone else? It could be big, small or middle of the road

Agreed. I just think they mitigate the 50x gap in AP due to how numerous they are and due to the limitations of it being clearly Game Mechanics, meaning he should be able to use them a lot more than that

But about the speed gap, i think it just go a bit lower than 50x and maaaaaaaaaaaaybe things can go fine if he has success in those paralysis

 

[Nonynho]

bump

 

[Nonynho]

bump

 

[Nonynho]

bump

 

[OrangeFR]

I’m leaning Vegito rn because of the speed gap with Super Sayian

 

[Nonynho]

I’m leaning Vegito rn because of the speed gap with Super Sayian

What about the attacks after the debuffs that include Stamina reduction? And the Duraneg?

All of the above should come before the SSVegito

 

[Mickey1940]

I'm not quite sure if that's the line, cuz Vegito is implied and told to be the craziest biggest baddest mf at the universe and a sum of Goku and Vegeta, he should scale above SSJ3 Goku at any point of the arc

I feel like we should ask more people about this point, as Goku didn't get his Ultimate Gohan-level amp until after Vegito existed

 

[Vietthai96]

I feel like we should ask more people about this point, as Goku didn't get his Ultimate Gohan-level amp until after Vegito existed

He is superior to Toei Kid Buu so of course he > post-Vegito Goku. It is literally on his profile

 

[Mickey1940]

He is superior to Toei Kid Buu so of course he > post-Vegito Goku. It is literally on his profile

where on Vegito's profile is he stated to be stronger than Kid Buu?

Does his "mightiest being in the universe" statement account for Kid Buu, a character introduced after Vegito?

 

[Vietthai96]

where on Vegito's profile is he stated to be stronger than Kid Buu?

Does his "mightiest being in the universe" statement account for Kid Buu, a character introduced after Vegito?

Damn, bruhh, i meant Broly, sorry, lol

 

[Mickey1940]

Damn, bruhh, i meant Broly, sorry, lol

thanks for the clarification

My original question is if Vegito was stronger than Post-Vegito Goku, as their scaling chains are completely different

 

[Nonynho]

thanks for the clarification

My original question is if Vegito was stronger than Post-Vegito Goku, as their scaling chains are completely different

Yes he is
P-Vegito Goku is not above someone above the sum of Vegeta and himself pre-fusion

Also, Vegito was beating Buuhan and still got 50x above that, and i don't think anybody reaches that level, possibly close to it at the ending, but he's still referred to as the strongest creature in the verse by that time

 

[Nonynho]

bump

 

[Mickey1940]

Yes he is
P-Vegito Goku is not above someone above the sum of Vegeta and himself pre-fusion

Also, Vegito was beating Buuhan and still got 50x above that, and i don't think anybody reaches that level, possibly close to it at the ending, but he's still referred to as the strongest creature in the verse by that time

Vegito is made of Early Buu Saga Goku and Vegeta

Post-Vegito Goku is HUNDREDS OF TIMES stronger than Early Buu Saga Goku and Vegeta

you're acting like Post-Vegito Goku is equal to Early Buu Saga Goku

remember, this is TOEI VEGITO. Not canon Vegito