Impostor Downgrade (Among Us)

[Bobsican]

Okay, so the calc it had is now useless for AP as it breaks GPE standards.
IDK much about the verse, so I'm open to see what other feats are around for tiering, if none are found the page may have to be removed.

 

[Abstractions]

A quick look into the history of the page would tell you they were previously 9-C and Class 1 for snapping necks, so a page removal would be completely unnecessary.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

They should he getting 9-A for a separate feat soon anyway. If the calc is faulty, yeah, shouldn't be used. This is also the only Crewmate feat, meaning they sadly get deleted too.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Thinking back a bit, they also have 9-C AP calcs from lifting a golden hat and a water jug. Would those not work for the same reasons as the diamonds?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Wouldnt it be possible to still calculate being able to swing the trash when you pull it out of the bin?

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

I don't think that would violate our rules for KE feats so maybe?

 

[Bobsican]

Wouldnt it be possible to still calculate being able to swing the trash when you pull it out of the bin?

That's just Lifting Strength, which the calc did and it's still usable, what's not usable is using it for AP as it breaks GPE standards for our purposes, as said before, recalcing the feat can't be done here as it's just unusable outside Lifting Strength purposes, as said before.

 

[Psychomaster35]

That's just Lifting Strength, which the calc did and it's still usable, what's not usable is using it for AP as it breaks GPE standards for our purposes, as said before, recalcing the feat can't be done here as it's just unusable outside Lifting Strength purposes, as said before.

Im not talking about it being GPE, Im talking about it as KE, as we have had many KE feats regarding swinging something around such as this

 

[Bobsican]

Except it doesn't swing it to begin with, it isn't even visible beyond when it does the move of lifting the bag, then dropping the stuff inside.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Cropfist]

amogus

 

[Psychomaster35]

Throwing must work, as the way you can do it tends to be player dependent

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

amogus

indeed

 

[Bobsican]

Throwing must work, as the way you can do it tends to be player dependent

That requires the assumption that's how it's done, as it as well could be that it just slowly lifts it up and lets the stuff just fall in, so I don't think it is usable still.

 

[Psychomaster35]

I disagree honestly. There was never an assumption at all how they do it canonically, but you can do it in a variety of ways as you are the one doing it.

If anything, thats a “possibly“ rating.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Yeah, you can indeed throw the bag. I don't see the problem.

 

[Bobsican]

I disagree honestly. There was never an assumption at all how they do it canonically, but you can do it in a variety of ways as you are the one doing it.

If anything, thats a “possibly“ rating.

You, as in the "player", which isn't usable here, and I'm sure the game itself doesn't ask you several ways to do it, it just goes there and does it with no animation detailing it, so more assumptions would be required over how it's done over just not assuming it's usable for AP per our standards.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Why wouldn't that be usable? It's still something the game lets you do in normal gameplay while playing as a Crewmate that doesn't have anything contradicting it.

Just because the action is done by a player, that doesn't mean the Crewmate shouldn't be able to do that.

 

[Shmooply]

When the GPE standard is broken!!!!!!
Jokes aside, I agree with Psycho and Psychic here.

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

When the GPE standard is broken!!!!!!

That's quite sus if you will

 

[Bobsican]

Why wouldn't that be usable? It's still something the game lets you do in normal gameplay while playing as a Crewmate that doesn't have anything contradicting it.

Just because the action is done by a player, that doesn't mean the Crewmate shouldn't be able to do that.

The problem is that you have to assume that it's pulled in a manner that doesn't break GPE standards, meaning that it's more logical for it to just be taken as unusable than to assume a feat that lacks proof.
Bring scans over it being done in a manner that fits GPE standards without using sheer headcanon and it's good to go, otherwise the feat may as well be non-existent beyond Lifting Strength purposes.

 

[Psychomaster35]

The problem is that you have to assume that it's pulled in a manner that doesn't break GPE standards, meaning that it's more logical for it to just be taken as unusable than to assume a feat that lacks proof.
Bring scans over it being done in a manner that fits GPE standards without using sheer headcanon and it's good to go, otherwise the feat may as well be non-existent beyond Lifting Strength purposes.

We are talking about KE here, not PE. Furthermore, there is no canon as to how they do it, as I said before.

 

[Bobsican]

We are talking about KE here, not PE. Furthermore, there is no canon as to how they do it, as I said before.

Again, from the link I gave at the OP:

Potential Gravitational Energy: Energy of falling Objects and Energy to lift Objects

(...)

"However, lifting should generally not be used to calculate Attack Potency unless it is a fast, explosive form of lift (for example: snatch, clean-and-jerk, etc.). This is based on the biomechanics behind how human type characters attack. Unlike a punch, a kick, or most other types of attacks, a lift is a slow sustained motion which allows for many more muscles fibers to be recruited into the movement more easily, generating much more energy than a fast movement used in combat. Lifting movements also allow the body's tendons to help out by storing the energy, then releasing it in a sudden burst, acting like a spring. If we use real world ratios, when the world's heaviest deadlift is compared to the world's most powerful punch, the deadlift has nearly 5 times more energy, demonstrating the disparity between the two types of movements. Similarly, if telekinesis (or any other ability of a similar nature) is used, the lifting must be performed in a timeframe capable of being used as an attack."



In other words, this can't be used as it's clearly just lifting some things from one place to another, rather than ragdolling them or the like to be usable for AP.

There being no canon way doesn't mean that we have to assume one out of nowhere just to give an arbitrary rating, in fact it supports my side as it's more reasonable to not assume that a feat is done in a way that suits our purposes than doing so.

 

[Psychomaster35]

We are talking about KE here, not PE. Furthermore, there is no canon as to how they do it, as I said before.

Did you even read this part?

 

[Bobsican]

Im not talking about it being GPE, Im talking about it as KE, as we have had many KE feats regarding swinging something around such as this

Assuming you mean this, I replied with this and you didn't even reply and acted like i ignored your point

Except it doesn't swing it to begin with, it isn't even visible beyond when it does the move of lifting the bag, then dropping the stuff inside.

This plus the argument I said above leads into the feat not being usable for AP without more content.

 

[Psychomaster35]

And you ignore my point that you failed to notice how they threw it. What you are doing right now is going in circles.

 

[Bobsican]

And as said before, an scan is needed to confirm that being the case, otherwise it's an unfounded assumption. It being theorically possible doesn't mean that we default to that, we default to what requires less assumptions, which in this case is the feat just being unusable for AP purposes.

 

[Imaginym]

"However, lifting should generally not be used to calculate Attack Potency unless it is a fast, explosive form of lift (for example: snatch, clean-and-jerk, etc.)"

Does the way you can yank the trash bag (& the trash can, if the bag stays lodged in.) not count as a clean-and-jerk movement?

Sure, there's no animation on the overworld, but I see no reason to disbelieve what's shown in the minigame isn't what happens in canon.
In my opinion, many of Among Us's minigames don't seem like abstractions. For example: Connecting wires, adjusting steering, polishing a jewel, arranging the food for a burger....
Many of the Minigames seem to depict the actions as they would be done in reality for the goal of the task.

The Crewmate is a Player Character. Why discredit what they can be shown doing just because the player has to input controls to do it? You can't run faster than the set speed by holding down the screen key harder, & how hard you can yank seems limited more by the gameplay, not your style of input as a real player.

That those actions are possible as part of gameplay & how many of Among Us's minigames are non-abstract seems to suggest they are possibilities in the reality depicted.
& I could believe a trash can could be yanked around if it were lodged in.


Although, as a means of dislodging the bag, I have difficulty imagining a means or reason to throw the trash can around; Where are they standing, & how are they gripping the trash can & bag to throw it around, & how could that help free the bag?

 

[Bobsican]

"However, lifting should generally not be used to calculate Attack Potency unless it is a fast, explosive form of lift (for example: snatch, clean-and-jerk, etc.)"

Does the way you can yank the trash bag (& the trash can, if the bag stays lodged in.) not count as a clean-and-jerk movement?

Although, as a means of dislodging the bag, I have difficulty imagining a means or reason to throw the trash can around; Where are they standing, & how are they gripping the trash can & bag to throw it around, & how could that help free the bag?

That depends on how it's portrayed, but out of there being no animation whatsoever to know if this is the case or not, as said before, the negative is the one to default to as it requires less assumptions.
If you mean there being an option to "shake" the trash so it goes out faster or so, well, I would like to see it to evaluate it to see if it could be used or not.

 

[Imaginym]

That depends on how it's portrayed, but out of there being no animation whatsoever to know if this is the case or not, as said before, the negative is the one to default to as it requires less assumptions.
If you mean there being an option to "shake" the trash so it goes out faster or so, well, I would like to see it to evaluate it to see if it could be used or not.

Ｗe can see the type of motion, though; The sudden-ness & speed of the moved object alone should tell us it is a "fast, explosive" lift.

You don't fling a trash bag several times its own length by gently or slowly pulling it, especially if it ends up being flung barely a moment after you grip it. Based on the animation, it is a sudden & fast lift, by the nature of the shown motions.

This video shows the player doing something like "shaking" it:

It may also be notable that the Switch Version shows how the Crewmate's hands are used (Seemingly as visual aids for controls during the task.) during the task:

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

While the GPE calc for bags might be correct we might need to stop using the GPE for the water jug calc since there is no animation that shows how fast the lift is.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.