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Immeasurable speed sailor moon ?

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Iamunanimousinthat said:
Pluto’s profile says he trancended the dimensional axis of time, not speed.
Click to expand...
From Pluto scan:
As a demon lord with more power than his hunters, his speed is faster than theirs, allowing him to travel and bypass the dimensional axis of the time stream

Iamunanimousinthat said:
And my point was that how does anything you mentioned about the expanse qualify for immeasurable. Everything you said fits into dimensional travel. The demons moving back and forth between places would just he dimensional travel as well.
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Did you actually read my comment?. SMT Demon capable of bypassing normal time axis with the use of higher temporal axis, which is belong to the Expanse, Expanse is a higher dimension that transcended the normal multiverse across past, present and future, Demon is the native of the Expanse and a Higher Dimensional Being, and they do this via their sheer speed, allowing them to fight across time itself. Dimensional Travel is just a result of their speed, not the cause of their speed
Iamunanimousinthat said:
You said transcending space and time mean nothing. Why is it significant for the expanse?
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The Expanse transcended the normal multiverse, both past, present and future all together, not just some vague transcended space-time statements, it is a freaking Low 1-C realm with the higher, 2nd temporal dimension. Simply put, the verse have enough context and feat to qualify for Immeasurable speed
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Are the demons traveling a beyond infinite distance distance when traveling from the expanse?
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They doesn't and they didn't need it, they bypass the time axis with their sheer speed already. Please if you don't understand the verse, research it, rather than just see some surface statement and immediately think they just the same as Sailor Moon. If you want more, call SMT experts or read the freaking cosmology blog
 
Me watching the arguments
pug-dog-watch-tv-lounging-on-the-sofa-picture-id941723890
 
kuramamyfav68 said:
So, is Sailor Moon's speed getting downgraded then (to mftl+)?
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At this point idk, Immeasurable is a hard no, however there is still infinite speed. There is no anti-feat, but at the same time only a single light feat which light up the universe. Black Lady feat is a vague feat, nothing directly stated she cross the universe to it's edge and reach wiseman domain with speed, actually nothing state how she travel to that realm thus it is up to interpretation mean we hardly can use it. Solid infinite speed is a no because the lack of feat and statement, however the possibly rating still open. But it is not me who decide
 
Vietthai96 said:
At this point idk, Immeasurable is a hard no, however there is still infinite speed. There is no anti-feat, but at the same time only a single light feat which light up the universe. Black Lady feat is a vague feat, nothing directly stated she cross the universe to it's edge and reach wiseman domain with speed, actually nothing state how she travel to that realm thus it is up to interpretation mean we hardly can use it. Solid infinite speed is a no because the lack of feat and statement, however the possibly rating still open. But it is not me who decide
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Indeed. "Possibly infinite attack speed" is what i would go for.
 
As Confluctor mentioned, our staff members just don't have the time and interest to read though almost 600 posts in order to look for gems of relevant information, so it would be best if Vietthai, Issei, or Iam compress all of the relevant evidence into a single post, and preferably explain the full context for all of it in conjunction.
 
Antvasima said:
As Confluctor mentioned, our staff members just don't have the time and interest to read though almost 600 posts in order to look for gems of relevant information, so it would be best if Vietthai, Issei, or Iam compress all of the relevant evidence into a single post, and preferably explain the full context for all of it in conjunction.
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Basically everything is taken as range+AP+space time hax if i understand this correctly.
 
Okay, but that is not the help that I asked for.
 
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Sailor Moon’s crystal light traveled from planet nemesis, in the solar system, to beyond the infinite space of the universe, and lit up the corridor of the Spacetime Door, and Wiseman’s domain, Rifts only accessible through time travel.

Sailor Moon's light is also said to be crossing time and space. As well as being unhindered by the layers of time. And transcending time and space. And again when the feat was repeated in the fourth arc.

Black Lady physically flew from the planet Nemesis to Wiseman’s domain. Prince Saphir describes the action as "falling".

Black Lady is able to attack the girls in the present with a shockwave that can physically travel through time.
 
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Okay. Thank you for helping out. Tell us here when you are done.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Sailor Moon’s crystal light traveled from planet nemesis, in the solar system, to beyond the infinite space of the universe, and lit up the corridor of the Spacetime Door, and Wiseman’s domain, Rifts only accessible through time travel.

Sailor Moon's light is also said to be crossing time and space. As well as being unhindered by the layers of time. And transcending time and space. And again when the feat was repeated in the fourth arc.

Black Lady physically flew from the planet Nemesis to Wiseman’s domain. Prince Saphir describes the action as "falling".

Black Lady is able to attack the girls in the present with a shockwave that can physically travel through time.
Click to expand...
@DarkDragonMedeus @Qawsedf234 @Jasonsith @Confluctor @LordGriffin1000 @QuasiYuri @SomebodyData @Vietthai96 @Ultra_instinct_issei

Do any of you want to write a rebuttal to or analysis of the above quoted post before I call for more staff members?
 
Oke i will write my analysis. The final decision is up to staffs
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Sailor Moon’s crystal light traveled from planet nemesis, in the solar system, to beyond the infinite space of the universe, and lit up the corridor of the Spacetime Door, and Wiseman’s domain, Rifts only accessible through time travel.
Click to expand...
Tbh my problem with the statement is about the mess of this science theory lol. However this is just a fiction, so infinite universe is fine. Next is the light feat, it is fine
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Sailor Moon's light is also said to be crossing time and space. As well as being unhindered by the layers of time. And transcending time and space. And again when the feat was repeated in the fourth arc.
Click to expand...
Crossing time and space is again the same as the light feat above. Unhindered by layers of time is flowery, metaphor talking to hyped up Sailor Moon power. Even if we take this statement too serious, it is can't give us any meaningful information for speed
Transcending space-time, we don't give anything speed related to this alone anymore
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Black Lady physically flew from the planet Nemesis to Wiseman’s domain. Prince Saphir describes the action as "falling".
Click to expand...
This feat is, again, claim Black Lady literally flying from Nemesis to Wiseman domain by crossing the universe is baseless. Saphir statement mean they flying down more than anything unless we claim he and Black Lady falling through the entire universe to Wiseman Domain, the statement itself support the feat that is both of them flying down to the core of planet Nemesis, then to the Wiseman Domain. Nothing directly stated they cross the universe and the visual support that, this feat leave too much for personal interpretation, possibly they cross the universe, but at the same time it is possible that they use dimensional travel, or the core of Nemesis allow them to reach Wiseman Domain with some kind of portal. Also in the scan for the light feat, Wiseman also said about his place the Rift, so it is also possibly that there is a space-time rift connect to his realm. Due to wide variety of interpretation for this feat, it rendered this unusable
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Black Lady is able to attack the girls in the present with a shockwave that can physically travel through time.
Click to expand...
This feat have nothing to do with infinite speed. And i already said, this feat to me is Universe+ range with Time Travel. Send something to a specific point in time is by no mean Immeasurable speed

So my own conclusion is, Immeasurable speed is a hard no, solid infinite is also no, we have no reason to scale the light feat to all of her other speed, she has no feat of outspeed her own light, or at least comparable in speed to that light, however possibly infinite speed is open and i'm fine with that rating personally
 
Thank you for helping out. I will ask then.
 
 
Vietthai96 said:
This feat is, again, claim Black Lady literally flying from Nemesis to Wiseman domain by crossing the universe is baseless. Saphir statement mean they flying down more than anything unless we claim he and Black Lady falling through the entire universe to Wiseman Domain, the statement itself support the feat that is both of them flying down to the core of planet Nemesis, then to the Wiseman Domain. Nothing directly stated they cross the universe and the visual support that, this feat leave too much for personal interpretation, possibly they cross the universe, but at the same time it is possible that they use dimensional travel, or the core of Nemesis allow them to reach Wiseman Domain with some kind of portal. Also in the scan for the light feat, Wiseman also said about his place the Rift, so it is also possibly that there is a space-time rift connect to his realm. Due to wide variety of interpretation for this feat, it rendered this unusable
Click to expand...
Last rebuttThe feat is not baseless.

we see Black Lady, Saphir, and Demande on planet Nemesis, and the next planel, we see them flying to Wiseman’s domain, after she says let’s go.

Saphir’s statement “Are we falling into Nemesis?” Means that they are physical moving. He wouldn’t say that if they telported, he would say, “Did you transport/teleported us inside nemesis?”

No where in the scene does it show Black Lady Teleporting them. Wiseman has shown to be able to teleport from his domain to Nemesis along with Black Lady. If the creator wanted to depict them as teleporting, then she would have, instead she went out of her way to show her flying through space with wind effects and her hair flowing to suggest velocity.

There is no portal. You would have to past a scan for that. I know the dream fan translation mentions of one, but this inaccurate, the official translation which I posted doesn’t have such portal, and when asked if they are in nemesis, she says no and laughs at the idea.

2. The rifts are not accessible inside the universe. And I have already posted scans that say they exist outside time and space. You would have to post a scan proving this which you have not.

My interpretation is going by what’s on paper and what’s being said. You interpretation are just guesses and assumptions without any text to support you.


Vietthai96 said:
Crossing time and space is again the same as the light feat above. Unhindered by layers of time is flowery, metaphor talking to hyped up Sailor Moon power. Even if we take this statement too serious, it is can't give us any meaningful information for speed
Transcending space-time, we don't give anything speed related to this alone anymore
Click to expand...

I don’t see how this is a response? These statements are being said to describe sailor moons power in real time as the light feat is happening. Flowery language isn’t an argument, it’s an extremely biased view point. Unless you can post actual texts and scans to prove these statements are untrue?
 
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Iamunanimousinthat said:
we see Black Lady, Saphir, and Demande on planet Nemesis, and the next planel, we see them flying to Wiseman’s domain, after she says let’s go.

Saphir’s statement “Are we falling into Nemesis?” Means that they are physical moving. He wouldn’t say that if they telported, he would say, “Did you transport/teleported us inside nemesis?”

No where in the scene does it show Black Lady Teleporting them. Wiseman has shown to be able to teleport from his domain to Nemesis along with Black Lady. If the creator wanted to depict them as teleporting, then she would have, instead she went out of her way to show her flying through space with wind effects and her hair flowing to suggest velocity.

There is no portal. You would have to past a scan for that. I know the dream fan translation mentions of one, but this inaccurate, the official translation which I posted doesn’t have such portal, and when asked if they are in nemesis, she says no and laughs at the idea.

2. The rifts are not accessible inside the universe. And I have already posted scans that say they exist outside time and space. You would have to post a scan proving this which you have not.
Click to expand...
1. Nothing indicated they cross the universe to reach to Wiseman Domain, even the scan show nothing like that, if they cross the universe, we should see something that resemble an universe, unless you claim they travel through an empty universe. Actually the scan show only a planet which is Nemesis, also can you show me the entire chapter?? because i'm sure they actually moving down to the inside of Nemesis and then to Wiseman Domain, same as Sailor Moon Crystal Season 2
2. I didn't deny they physically moving, and i'm not even said they teleporting either, where did you get that impression????.
3. Did you actually read my entire comment, or just focus on some part of it??.
4. The rift is not accessible inside the universe, yes, did i ever said it is inside the universe. However it is only inaccessible for Sailor Moon group, Black Lady has Wiseman power, she can access the place by all mean
Iamunanimousinthat said:
My interpretation is going by what’s on paper and what’s being said. You interpretation are just guesses and assumptions without any text to support you.
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Again, it is your own interpretation, i already said, the feat is unusable, why, because nothing indicated she actually cross the entire universe, everything is vague, she reach wiseman domain by unknown mean which leave up to multiple way of interpretation, and if we use scan visual, she only flying down to a planet and then next she is in Wiseman Domain, even Saphir say they falling down to Nemesis, if they fly through the universe, why Saphir made that statement, he is not a stupid character who can't identify the entire universe with a planet, unless you claim Nemesis station at the edge of the universe. All and all you need to prove she cross the entire universe itself
Iamunanimousinthat said:
I don’t see how this is a response? These statements are being said to describe sailor moons power in real time as the light feat is happening. Flowery language isn’t an argument, it’s an extremely biased view point. Unless you can post actual texts and scans to prove these statements are untrue?
Click to expand...
Again, did you actually read my entire comment, or just focus on some part of it to debunk, i said two sentences, the first is being flowery language, why, the entire narration is: a beautiful power, light unhindered by layers of time. Can you claim it is not flowery language, because in context it give nothing, like i said in the second sentence, is even if we take this line seriously, it give nothing meaningful. Unhindered by layers of time in what sense, the context is too vague and don't tell me some bad interpretation that taken everything out of context like beyond time axis. I myself don't like flowery language argument either, but that doesn't mean everything can be taken seriously without consideration, flowery language, figurative talking, metapor statements exist, we need to prove it is not

Anyway, the final decision is not on me so................
 
I'm not really interested in what's basically be repeated hundreds of times tbh, but I already said the universe being infinite is fine by me, but I take issues with lighting up an infinite sized universe being a speed feat as opposed to a range feat. Or even reaching outside an infinite sized universe, I find it vague for that to be assumed infinite.

But Vietthai makes sense for the rest.
 
Okay. My apologies for asking for your help over and over here. I thought that things were left rather unclear.

Anyway, we should probably wait a bit longer for further staff input, and if we do not receive any, apply what Medeus decided above.
 
As I pointed out, I'm not the best to evaluate this type of thing but I find myself agreeing with Veittihai96. I just don't know the verse enough to say what the best interpretation of the feat is valid especially given the way it's shown.
 
No problem. Thank you for the evaluation.
 
Vietthai96 said:
1. Nothing indicated they cross the universe to reach to Wiseman Domain, even the scan show nothing like that, if they cross the universe, we should see something that resemble an universe, unless you claim they travel through an empty universe. Actually the scan show only a planet which is Nemesis, also can you show me the entire chapter?? because i'm sure they actually moving down to the inside of Nemesis and then to Wiseman Domain, same as Sailor Moon Crystal Season 2
2. I didn't deny they physically moving, and i'm not even said they teleporting either, where did you get that impression????.
Click to expand...

I can't post 50 pages.

The scan shows them on Nemesis, and then the next panel they are about to arrive at Wiseman's domain flying. Black Lady brought them inside the caverns of Nemesis after the reactor went off. We then see Black Lady floating and telling them to let's go, and the next panel we see them flying to wiseman's domain.

What is even with this argument that you need to see the universe to see that they traveled through it? Sailor Moon travel feats always happen in one panel. When Sailor Moon flew to the center of the galaxy, we weren't shown all the stars they passed by.

2. So if they didn't teleport. And they were physically moving, how did they get to Wiseman's Domain from Nemesis? If you just say Dimensional Travel, I would suggest to you look at the Dimensional Travel page which says, "This is rarely an ability on its own, often being achieved through other means".

Vietthai96 said:
4. The rift is not accessible inside the universe, yes, did i ever said it is inside the universe. However it is only inaccessible for Sailor Moon group, Black Lady has Wiseman power, she can access the place by all mean
Click to expand...
The rift is accessile to anyone who can time travel. The Sailor Moon group uses the spacetime key, and Black Moon clan uses a time machine. And it's not just about Black Lady accessing the place, but how. She does it through flight.

Vietthai96 said:
Again, it is your own interpretation, i already said, the feat is unusable, why, because nothing indicated she actually cross the entire universe, everything is vague, she reach wiseman domain by unknown mean which leave up to multiple way of interpretation, and if we use scan visual, she only flying down to a planet and then next she is in Wiseman Domain, even Saphir say they falling down to Nemesis, if they fly through the universe, why Saphir made that statement, he is not a stupid character who can't identify the entire universe with a planet, unless you claim Nemesis station at the edge of the universe. All and all you need to prove she cross the entire universe itself
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? She isn't flying down to a planet. That's Wiseman's castle in his domain. Is this where the confusion is coming from?

Vietthai96 said:
Again, did you actually read my entire comment, or just focus on some part of it to debunk, i said two sentences, the first is being flowery language, why, the entire narration is: a beautiful power, light unhindered by layers of time. Can you claim it is not flowery language, because in context it give nothing, like i said in the second sentence, is even if we take this line seriously, it give nothing meaningful. Unhindered by layers of time in what sense, the context is too vague and don't tell me some bad interpretation that taken everything out of context like beyond time axis. I myself don't like flowery language argument either, but that doesn't mean everything can be taken seriously without consideration, flowery language, figurative talking, metapor statements exist, we need to prove it is not
Click to expand...

It's not vague. I've already explained this.

Sailor Moon's crystal cannot work win the future, due to the time paradox of being in the same location as Neo Queen Serenity's crystal. After a power up from Neo Queen Serenity, Sailor Moon gets the ability to send power across time to bypass the time paradox.

After that powerup, when she is using her crystal in the future, the silver crystal is sending power from the present to the future. Hence the comments of crossing time and space, and being unhindered by the layers of time.
 
Also I suggest those agreeing with Vietthat wait for his response, because apparently there has been some confusion. They thought the scan I showed of Black Lady flying to Wiseman's domain was her flying to another a planet.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
The scan shows them on Nemesis, and then the next panel they are about to arrive at Wiseman's domain flying. Black Lady brought them inside the caverns of Nemesis after the reactor went off. We then see Black Lady floating and telling them to let's go, and the next panel we see them flying to wiseman's domain.

What is even with this argument that you need to see the universe to see that they traveled through it? Sailor Moon travel feats always happen in one panel. When Sailor Moon flew to the center of the galaxy, we weren't shown all the stars they passed by.
Click to expand...
1. So again they just on Nemesis then, nothing special
2. This is completely irrelevant actually, we talk about Black Lady feat, and again we focus on that, why Sailor Moon physically travel should apply to every feat???
Iamunanimousinthat said:
What are you talking about? She isn't flying down to a planet. That's Wiseman's castle in his domain. Is this where the confusion is coming from?
Click to expand...
It is clearly shown that you just focus on the some part of my comment rather than actually read it all, if they cross the universe, why Saphir make that comment, he is not stupid to the point mistake Nemesis for something else

Iamunanimousinthat said:
Sailor Moon's crystal cannot work win the future, due to the time paradox of being in the same location as Neo Queen Serenity's crystal. After a power up from Neo Queen Serenity, Sailor Moon gets the ability to send power across time to bypass the time paradox.

After that powerup, when she is using her crystal in the future, the silver crystal is sending power from the present to the future. Hence the comments of crossing time and space, and being unhindered by the layers of time.
Click to expand...
Still give nothing aside from the vague transcending space-time and to hyped up her power, with the feat being time travel and universe+ range
 
Vietthai96 said:
1. So again they just on Nemesis then, nothing special
2. This is completely irrelevant actually, we talk about Black Lady feat, and again we focus on that, why Sailor Moon physically travel should apply to every feat???
Click to expand...

1. ??? They flew from Planet Nemsis to wiseman's domain. That's the point.
2. It's very relevant? It's showing consistency with the authors other drawings.

Vietthai96 said:
It is clearly shown that you just focus on the some part of my comment rather than actually read it all, if they cross the universe, why Saphir make that comment, he is not stupid to the point mistake Nemesis for something else
Click to expand...
Are you serious? You made a MAJOR mistake. At least acknowledge it.

Saphir made that comment because they travelled extremely quickly. It was done between panels, and infact mid sentence. We see the speech bubble pointing to them why they're flying. From his perspective it looked like they were falling into Nemesis. And you're ignoring Black Lady telling him no.

Vietthai96 said:
Still give nothing aside from the vague transcending space-time and to hyped up her power, with the feat being time travel and universe+ range
Click to expand...

At this point I think you're being obstinate on purpose. I gave enough information about the context.

Vietthai96 said:
Forget this point, so she time travel via some unknown mean then
Click to expand...

The scan shows her flying.
 
Agree with downgrade: DarkDragonMedeus, Jasonsmith, Qawsedf234, Confluctor, lordgriffin, elizaa
Neutral:
Disagree with downgrade:
Not sure: Quasiyuri (Probably leans towards agree), Somebodydata
 
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