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Immeasurable speed blazblue downgrade

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Again the "strong will" one is for the resistance feat, since those who are not strong enough cannot survive even a step to the boundary, is different matter all together with traveling through boundary.

Boundary is a place where infinite number timelines intersect and it said to even transcend space and time.

Beside there's Azrael who literaly travel through dimension without using the boundary into the Embryo, a place that is also transcend space-time
 
Traveling through the boundary isn’t easy for most characters, and some even have special conditions that let them travel there in the first place. Like prime field devices such as Nu, or Noel were designed to explore the boundary, all of the boundary no less.

It’s not a time travel ordeal where they enter into the boundary, and are spit out in another time period. Although that can happen sometimes, these characters actually take the time to travel around in there, and pinpoint locations in that infinite space.

Like Kokonoe, when she located Hakumen who was floating in the edge.
 
If you say time in boundary has just all points that's still looking at it as a line that's linear, where the boundary adds possiblity to the equation where possiblity adds a new axis in time a second one you can't access through linear movement of time.
 
All of this really looks like Time Travel to me. They go into the Boundary and then they comes out of it in the time that they want to go.
Unless they have ever shown to be able to travel throught the time axis even without the help of the Boundary, than I doubt this can be considered Immeasurable speed.
The fact itself that they need to use the Boundary to travel throught time is a big point towards them not having Immeasurable speed, in my opinion.
 
ThanatosX said:
All of this really looks like Time Travel to me. They go into the Boundary and then they comes out of it in the time that they want to go.
Unless they have ever shown to be able to travel throught the time axis even without the help of the Boundary, than I doubt this can be considered Immeasurable speed.
The fact itself that they need to use the Boundary to travel throught time is a big point towards them not having Immeasurable speed, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
Hmmm alright.
Are there any examples at all of the cast traveling through the time axis without relying on the Boundary? If so, someone plz provide.
If so I'm open to immeasurable but if the Boundary is the only thing holding the argument up, I can't say I'd buy it. As stated numerous times this is just blatant time travel.
 
Catpija said:
Boundary is connected to all dimension
(https://gyazo.com/59335f6d9464aced1aacf404922af94e)

and people can go to another event(refering to time, past-future) by going to the boundary
(https://gyazo.com/0ef30f15362dd717905f2f06fefa4dd4)

The only reason we havent seen normal human enter Boundary is because Boundary just EE anyone who entered it
Click to expand...
Its still time travel tho, there is no statement there that shows that they went to the past-present-future with sheer speed.
 
Violatas said:
Hmmm alright.
Are there any examples at all of the cast traveling through the time axis without relying on the Boundary? If so, someone plz provide.
If so I'm open to immeasurable but if the Boundary is the only thing holding the argument up, I can't say I'd buy it. As stated numerous times this is just blatant time travel.
Click to expand...
I'm still in the belief that the second temporal dimensional axis that's added into the boundary makes it not straightforward time travel but perpendicular movement through time.
 
Comicgyal said:
Traveling through the boundary isn’t easy for most characters, and some even have special conditions that let them travel there in the first place. Like prime field devices such as Nu, or Noel were designed to explore the boundary, all of the boundary no less.

It’s not a time travel ordeal where they enter into the boundary, and are spit out in another time period. Although that can happen sometimes, these characters actually take the time to travel around in there, and pinpoint locations in that infinite space.

Like Kokonoe, when she located Hakumen who was floating in the edge.
Click to expand...
Just because not everyone can do it doesn't mean it's Immeasurable. They're still only capable of this because of the Boundary.
 
@Promestein the black beast is stated by a researcher in the verse to be the boundary, and move through time, why exactly would this not work for immeasurable?
 
The simple fact that they need the Boundary to move throught time disproves that the characters have Immeasurable.

For the Black Beast, more context should be given. Being a dimension, in this case the Boundary, would be a simple Omnipresence, while him being able to move throught time can be Time Travel, which considering that the Boundary gives access to multiple points in time seems to be the most logical conclusion rather than it having Immeasurable speed.
Also, in the profile it says that the Black Beast is a living cauldron, the gateway to the Boundary, not the Boundary itself. If this is not the case, can anyone give the scan of the part where the Beast is described to be the Boundary?
 
@ThanatosX I'm not talking about other characters moving in the boundary, I'm talking about the black beast.

it's an out of control cauldron, there's a difference here.

"...The Black Beast. It is a monster born from the Boundary... no, it is the Boundary itself. It is not something a man should associate with. Humanity is still immature. Although their immaturity was the reason for their curiosity, a contact with the Boundary must not happen."
Click to expand...
 
ThanatosX said:
The simple fact that they need the Boundary to move throught time disproves that the characters have Immeasurable.

For the Black Beast, more context should be given. Being a dimension, in this case the Boundary, would be a simple Omnipresence
Click to expand...
Being a dimension in this case would just be higher dimensionality not Omnipresence. Cause you just said he's a dimension and the boundary still has all it's points of being a higher dimension.
 
Dont know anything about this series so pardon my minor interruption, but when it says crossing boundaries = transcending space/time, transcending is in what context?
 
Sorry, It just brings up a bunch of questions if The Black Beast is the Boundary itself. Especially since that's being used as a reason for its Immeasurable Speed.
 
Regardless, still - if the Black Beast is the Boundary itself, I don’t exactly see why they wouldn’t be immeasurable, since the Six Heroes contested with it constantly.
 
I think you are misunderstanding what ActuallySpaceMan is saying. Basically what he means is that if the Black Beast is the Boundary itself than he is Low 1-C. Either the Black Beast is the Boundary and he is Low 1-C or he is not the Boundary. What he is saying is actually an important point to the argument.

Anyways, what exactly would make the Black Beast Immeasurable in speed if he is actually the Boundary instead of giving him Time Travel?
And even if he would actually classify as Immeasurable speed, why he wouldn't be a huge outlier? Because if he fight against other characters than they would be Immeasurable too, which wouldn't makes sense since to travel throught time they instead need the Boundary, which is a big anti-feat.
 
The black beast would be low 1-C as well, yes. Not sure why it isn’t represented on his profile.

As stated before the boundary doesn’t transport you through time like a portal, you have to travel through its space through speed and willpower. Because it would meet the criteria, which would be traveling through time with speed, it would be immeasurable.

Also it wouldn’t be an outlier, considering the drastic amount of prep characters had to do just to be able to contest the black beast.
 
@ThanatosX It's beyond all of time and space and can move through other worlds as a "dive" without the need of teleporting or portal creation.

You mean the being who's the top dog of the series that everyone treats as a big deal? That's not an outlier whatsoever.
 
Theglassman12 said:
You mean the being who's the top dog of the series that everyone treats as a big deal? That's not an outlier whatsoever.
Click to expand...
A 5-A in a verse full of Low 1-C's doesn't seems that big of a deal tbh.

Anyways, does he ever fight with other characters? Because if he does and this characters needs the Boundary to travel throught time than his Immeasurable speed would be either a huge outlier or PIS.
A character with Immeasurable speed doesn't need external factors to travel throught time, while every character in Blazblue seems to use the Boundary to time travel, which goes heavily against the definition of Immeasurable speed.
 
You mean the Low 1-Cs that amounts to a small handful of characters that scale physically and not through hax?

The six heroes all the time, every single dark war ever it fights the six heroes. None of these characters in the story remotely use the boundary to time travel at all. They can just move in the boundary and survive just fine, but it's never treated as a necessity unlike the weaker characters who do use it for time travel.
 
ThanatosX said:
Anyways, does he ever fight with other characters? Because if he does and this characters needs the Boundary to travel throught time than his Immeasurable speed would be either a huge outlier or PIS.
Click to expand...
There’s an entire war where he fits against them. Over and over, for hundreds of years.
ThanatosX said:
A character with Immeasurable speed doesn't need external factors to travel throught time, while every character in Blazblue seems to use the Boundary to time travel, which goes heavily against the definition of Immeasurable speed.
Click to expand...
Most characters don’t use the boundary to time travel, because a lot of them don’t want to go in there in the first place. As i said before it corrupts characters, and takes an abnormally large will to exist in.

The characters who do go into the boundary transcend time and space in order to travel through time, due to their special existences and the boundaries own circumstances.
 
Theglassman12 said:
The six heroes all the time, every single dark war ever it fights the six heroes. None of these characters in the story remotely use the boundary to time travel at all. They can just move in the boundary and survive just fine, but it's never treated as a necessity unlike the weaker characters who do use it for time travel.
Click to expand...
So there are characters that are able to move throught time without using the Boundary? If so, could you make a collection of scans and videos of all the feats of a character being able to move throught time without using the Boundary?
Because if I am understanding this correctly, than I think this should qualify for the current classification of Immeasurable speed and THIS feats should be used as justifications for this rating rather than the current "able to move throught the Boundary". But context is obviously important, so the scans would be extremely useful.
 
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