Im acctually losing my mind

[Giannysmag]

The poem from the end of the Shogun’s demo applies here.

Waking world, you seem

Woven from the stuff of dreams:

All shall fade away.

As does the second Kizuna Text of Yog Sotthoth from GGZ, oddly enough. It’s long, so I bolded the important part.

At that time, in the Jetavana-vihara.The Buddha preached a sermon to Subhūti, and Ānanda took themselves to taking notes."... Having developed the mind of Avalokiteśvara, one should live as this, and surrender your heart like this.""... Yet of the immeasurable, boundless numbers of living beings thus taken across to extinction, there is actually no living being taken across to extinction. And why? Subhūti, if a Bodhisattva has a mark of self, a mark of others, a mark of living beings, or a mark of a life, he is not a Bodhisattva.""All you Bhikṣus should know that the dharma which I speak is like a raft. Even the dharma should be relinquished, how much the more so what is not dharmas."In the case of the Thirty-One Bhikṣus, the words were like the blossoms of lotuses, and the law was solemn, the preaching suddenly stopped.Ānanda was in a daze, and when they raised their head, they saw the Buddha staring into the void. Though here, it seemed that he was far away.Under the great sun, a bubble came out, without wisdom without gain, like a crystal, that is, appearing and disappearingThe Buddha laughed silently, and then they obtained the Thirty-Second Bhiksus."All conditioned phenomena, are like a dream, an illusion, a bubble, a shadow. Like the dew, or like lightning. You should discern them like this."All the disciples were convinced and bowed their heads and said "This is how the Sutra ends."Only Ānanda, although finished with the sutra he wrote, was still thinking about the bubble of time in his heart, where the delay was indescribable.

Reality in Hoyoverse is likened unto a dream. More than once, so dreams should be considered genuine spaces. I agree with the upgrade, but since there were countless Sabzereuz spaces as was stated, not just three, I think High 2-B should be the agenda, not 2-C. Just because we only encountered three, does not discredit the validity of the others. It would be impossible to directly encounter or know about a countless number of timelines.

Flowery language

 

[Agnaa]

@Lord_Farquaad69420 @Woomica @Giannysmag @Breakdown Make any more posts like that here and I'll start threadbanning.

 

[Puppet43]

a bowl that is half-full of salt and is forever half-full just means the salt is created endlessly inside the thing so it never runs out, not that there is a literally infinite amount of salt already present in the thing.

But is indeed still creating inf salt

 

[Agnaa]

You too Puppet. This thread's wack enough as-is.

Anyway, Seiji's right. Being able to refill a jar endlessly doesn't justify a High 3-A rating, since our ratings are discounted based on the time taken, and such a jar would only create finite amounts of salt at finite timeframes.

Those vague "superior plane" statements and the like are too weak to justify Low 2-C.

 

[Puppet43]

You too Puppet. This thread's wack enough as-is.

Anyway, Seiji's right. Being able to refill a jar endlessly doesn't justify a High 3-A rating, since our ratings are discounted based on the time taken, and such a jar would only create finite amounts of salt at finite timeframes.

Those vague "superior plane" statements and the like are too weak to justify Low 2-C.

 

[Breakdown]

You too Puppet. This thread's wack enough as-is.

Anyway, Seiji's right. Being able to refill a jar endlessly doesn't justify a High 3-A rating, since our ratings are discounted based on the time taken, and such a jar would only create finite amounts of salt at finite timeframes.

Those vague "superior plane" statements and the like are too weak to justify Low 2-C.

The bottle being bottomless is meant to be taken literally here.

 

[Agnaa]

The bottle being bottomless is meant to be taken literally here.

It's obviously not lmao. It's using the meaning of "bottomless" as "without end", you can tell this by the sentence immediately beforehand.

 

[SeijiSetto]

The bottle being bottomless is meant to be taken literally here.

give a good reason why, as opposed to the (in my opinion at least) more likely interpretation of it being called bottomless because it can't run out, rather than being literally bottomless. again, you can see the bowl in question, it has a bottom, making it able to be half-full of salt.
saying "it's meant to be taken literally" with zero reasoning is not an argument

 

[Puppet43]

a jar would only create finite amounts of salt at finite timeframes.

Is never stated it doesnt need finite timeframes and even still, something infinite needs 1/2 infinite to be half full

Those vague "superior plane" statements and the like are too weak to justify Low 2-C.

yeah i know those are vagues but i have nothing better to justificate Low 2C (2B justificates on its own without the need of this)

 

[SeijiSetto]

Is never stated it doesnt need finite timeframes and even still, something infinite needs 1/2 infinite to be half full

this would only be a valid argument if the jar's inside was literally infinite in size
it's not
it's far more likely that it's called bottomless because it doesn't run out of salt, as opposed to because there's some spatial fuckery going on to make the inside somehow infinite in size and then for it to be half full of salt.

 

[Agnaa]

Is never stated it doesnt need finite timeframes

Our burden of proof generally lies on the high-end claim, or on the claim that diverges from reality the most. Yours gets knocked by both, so we're not going to assume that it can dump infinite salt in finite time for no reason.

and even still something infinite needs 1/2 infinite to be half full

Good thing it's only described as endless, and not infinite, then.

yeah i know those are vagues but i have nothing better to justificate Low 2C (2B justificates on its own without the need of this)

 

[Woomica]

okay now ill give some tought about this crt, i disagree with high 3-A stuff and mostly stuff for scaling archons there and low 2-C via being stronger than someone being high 3-A
Im neutral for the rest for now

 

[GarrixianXD]

So i recently hear the news that creations feats had been accepted as a form of UES and thanks to that they put Genshin into the 4B

So lets cook a bit something unimaginable, Tier 2 Genshin

Gods Scaling:

• Havria was able to create a bottomless jar, with bottomless being able to mean "It has no limit or end", meaning that it terms of scaling, this put Havria at worst in High 3A, this is also consistent with her being able to create infinite salt, which would be infinite mass

Nothing here implies High 3-A. That "bottomless" term sounded rather flowery.

It is stated 2 times that gods live in a plane superior to that of humans and also a character able to par with Hydro Traveler was stated to be superior to the material world, a meaning of material world is the universe, so this 2 statments are impliying that Gods and Characters in that tier are 4D Entities, which at worst would scaled them at Low 2C

Resistance to law manipulation and 4-D higher dimensional existence seems good. Being 4-D doesn't automatically make one Low 2-C, and you haven't proved a potency of a higher-infinity attack potency here so Low 2-C is disqualified unless you give further context that can actually support it.

Archons Scaling:

• This scaling would put Archons at 2C, so lets get started
• Nahida power is what feed the akasha to create the Samsara festival
• Samsara is shown to have its own time separated from Teyvat
• Samsara is stated to have countless spaces, do we only know of 3, which this, we can conclude that Samsara is at least 2C by having more than 1 Space Time Continiuums

Spatial manipulation, pocket reality creation and dream manipulation seem good. Those space-times has to be said to be universal sized by the least, to qualify as 2-C.

Celestia Scaling:

• The Heavenly Principles are stated to created all laws of Teyvat

Seems to be law manipulation by the least on the surface.

• In the book Scroll of the Streaming Song is stated that the Heavens had created the laws of Teyvat, impliying that Heavens is a synonym of Heavenly Principles

I think this can pushed to be Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation, with those universal laws being part of the fundamental concept.

^^I take this back, misread the scan.

• The 7 Nations were submitted by the Heavens, which implies that Celestia Beings upscale all Teyvat Beings

Since Genshin is a Chinese game, the term "Earth" usually refers to the entire mortal realm which is the Universe itself. I agree with the Primordial One being 2-C; how does it connect to beings of celestia tho?

 

[Saqphire]

I feel like this is a spite thread cuz of the 4-A stuff being accepted yesterday , Neutral on all except God of Salt stuff, I disagree with that as the justification into H3-A just seems like a hasty generalisation and from what others have stated; there are stronger interpretations against it

 

[Woomica]

l.

Since Genshin is a Chinese game, the term "Earth" usually refers to the entire mortal realm which is the Universe itself. I agree with the Primordial One being 2-C; how does it connect to beings of celestia tho?

they can be low 2-C or 2-A (genshin is a part of leaf world in imaginary tree which is 2-A iirc in some of your honkai crts)
or massively upscaled from 4-A

 

[GarrixianXD]

they can be low 2-C or 2-A (genshin is a part of leaf world in imaginary tree which is 2-A iirc in some of your honkai crts)
or massively upscaled from 4-A

Iirc Genshin's universe is specifically said to have boundaries and shit, so 2-A won't work

 

[Woomica]

Iirc Genshin's universe is specifically said to have boundaries and shit, so 2-A won't work

the only boundary i know is the barrieer or false sky that covers entire planet (human realm)
tho whats beyond that is unknown so im not sure abt anyone getting tier 2

 

[Weaver261]

Since we all are genshin glazers and wankers here. I will double and triple it down. Archons have something called Realm of Consciousness. And it's not like Plane Of Euthymia which is created inside the mind and the sword. Yae miko stated the nature of ROC and Ei's realm is different. Yae miko stated that ROC is a very abstract concept. Also stated as abstract space. Yae miko also said that it's abstract but it has a location and she can't pinpoint the exact location due to chaos. It's clear that ROC is not just a mental world but rather an abstract spatial space. When traveler passed through the gate of makoto's ROC, we can see times going forward and backward at the same time and traveler even stated that. More over, planting the seed of sacred sakura tree inside makoto's realm make the seed takes root in the past and changing the dire future.
The conclusion here is ROC is a higher dimensional space that transcends time.

Can this qualify as 2-C for Archons in their realm of consciousness? Genshin base universe is low 2-C because of having a space time structure. Transcending time should grant at least one tier higher.
Here's more proof of ROC being able to affect the lower reality. Ei was able to plant sacred Sakura seed in the past of Inazuma from there and effectively changing the future. Greater Lord Rukkadevata's ROC is the same one as Irminsul's consciousness since she is the avatar of Irminsul. Irminsul is able to store the information of Teyvat. Because of cataclysm, forbidden knowledge has affected Irminsul and as the result, Greater Lord Rukkadevata's ROC is polluted and filled with monsters. By removing greater Lord Rukkadevata's existence from Irminsul database and remaining forbidden knowledge in sumeru is gone.

 

[Giannysmag]

I feel like this is a spite thread cuz of the 4-A stuff being accepted yesterday , Neutral on all except God of Salt stuff, I disagree with that as the justification into H3-A just seems like a hasty generalisation and from what others have stated; there are stronger interpretations against it

You are partially correct but this is also just where Puppet thinks they actually scale

 

[Giannysmag]

The poem from the end of the Shogun’s demo applies here.

Waking world, you seem

Woven from the stuff of dreams:

All shall fade away.

As does the second Kizuna Text of Yog Sotthoth from GGZ, oddly enough. It’s long, so I bolded the important part.

At that time, in the Jetavana-vihara.The Buddha preached a sermon to Subhūti, and Ānanda took themselves to taking notes."... Having developed the mind of Avalokiteśvara, one should live as this, and surrender your heart like this.""... Yet of the immeasurable, boundless numbers of living beings thus taken across to extinction, there is actually no living being taken across to extinction. And why? Subhūti, if a Bodhisattva has a mark of self, a mark of others, a mark of living beings, or a mark of a life, he is not a Bodhisattva.""All you Bhikṣus should know that the dharma which I speak is like a raft. Even the dharma should be relinquished, how much the more so what is not dharmas."In the case of the Thirty-One Bhikṣus, the words were like the blossoms of lotuses, and the law was solemn, the preaching suddenly stopped.Ānanda was in a daze, and when they raised their head, they saw the Buddha staring into the void. Though here, it seemed that he was far away.Under the great sun, a bubble came out, without wisdom without gain, like a crystal, that is, appearing and disappearingThe Buddha laughed silently, and then they obtained the Thirty-Second Bhiksus."All conditioned phenomena, are like a dream, an illusion, a bubble, a shadow. Like the dew, or like lightning. You should discern them like this."All the disciples were convinced and bowed their heads and said "This is how the Sutra ends."Only Ānanda, although finished with the sutra he wrote, was still thinking about the bubble of time in his heart, where the delay was indescribable.

Reality in Hoyoverse is likened unto a dream. More than once, so dreams should be considered genuine spaces. I agree with the upgrade, but since there were countless Sabzereuz spaces as was stated, not just three, I think High 2-B should be the agenda, not 2-C. Just because we only encountered three, does not discredit the validity of the others. It would be impossible to directly encounter or know about a countless number of timelines.

Ok but to quickly actually address this just in case, this doesn't prove anything. The little poem is just that a poem that you'd have to prove actually has any bearing on how the Genshin reality works and the second is from a different verse (+ I still don't see how it proves that dreams = physical spaces)

 

[Puppet43]

can dump infinite salt in finite time for no reason.

thats litterally how it works

this would only be a valid argument if the jar's inside was literally infinite in size

to bad it is

 

[Agnaa]

thats litterally how it works

According to which scan?

 

[Robo432343]

the feats are not real

 

[Puppet43]

According to which scan?

The ones i already pass out

 

[Puppet43]

the feats are not real

they are real, they are litterally there in the game

 

[SeijiSetto]

to bad it is

why?
it's called "bottomless" which doesn't necessarily mean it LITERALLY has no bottom on the inside, especially in context where it just remains half-full no matter how much you pour out.
i feel you are purposely ignoring context to try and portray this as something it just isn't

 

[Puppet43]

it's called "bottomless" which doesn't necessarily mean it LITERALLY has no bottom on the inside, especially in context where it just remains half-full no matter how much you pour out.

so bassicly infinite mass, more proof for high 3A

 

[SeijiSetto]

so bassicly infinite mass, more proof for high 3A

you either don't get me or are intentionally misinterpreting me if this is what you understood from what i'm saying.

 

[Saqphire]

so bassicly infinite mass, more proof for high 3A

He's trying to say that "bottomless" here doesn't necessarily have to mean that it's endless, it's context-based. It's like if you saw a pit that is envelopped in darkness, it'd be appropriate to call it bottomless even though obviously it has a bottom due to how continents and the Earth works

 

[Agnaa]

I'd say it's more like how something can be bottomless/endless by refilling.

Mario 64's endless staircase, courtesy of Mario being teleported back a few steps every time he runs up it.

In this case, the salt is refilled equivalent to the finite loss it has when poured out (as is guaranteed by its finitely-large opening), needing only a small amount of energy per second to run indefinitely.

 

[Puppet43]

He's trying to say that "bottomless" here doesn't necessarily have to mean that it's endless, it's context-based. It's like if you saw a pit that is envelopped in darkness, it'd be appropriate to call it bottomless even though obviously it has a bottom due to how continents and the Earth works

i see, still the jar or container is stated to produce endless salt, so both infinite mass and his statment would be true

 

[SeijiSetto]

i see, still the jar or container is stated to produce endless salt, so both infinite mass and his statment would be true

producing endless salt would imply it doesn't have endless salt in it, y'know
if it just has infinite salt in it, it doesn't need to make more
if it is a finite amount of salt, then it would need to produce more endlessly to never run out.
they're opposing, you can't have both.
i hadn't even thought about the specific wording like that, "produce" implies more is just made endlessly and the jar does not have infinite mass, which is not High 3-A.

 

[Ezaru]

this is literally the counterexample i gave, except it's a bowl instead of a salt shaker lol
a bowl that is half-full of salt and is forever half-full just means the salt is created endlessly inside the thing so it never runs out, not that there is a literally infinite amount of salt already present in the thing.
additionally the "bottomless" statement actually comes from this same scene, it's not like it's referring to the thing actually not having a bottom (clearly it DOES because it can be half-full)

But if the God doesn't expand any more energy to refill it they basically did create infinite salt

But there is obviously some type of hax involved

That's why UES can get silly

 

[SeijiSetto]

But if the God doesn't expand any more energy to refill it they basically did create infinite salt

not really? it'd be like saying someone who could, in theory, continue firing a beam forever is High 3-A because that's infinite energy.
the output is only finite, which is the part that matters otherwise it's just infinite stamina

 

[Puppet43]

But if the God doesn't expand any more energy to refill it they basically did create infinite salt

i mean the god is dead

 

[Agnaa]

Creating a character with infinite stamina is not a High 3-A feat.

Creating a character with regen that cannot be exhausted is not a High 3-A feat.

 

[Puppet43]

Creating a character with infinite stamina is not a High 3-A feat.

Creating a character with regen that cannot be exhausted is not a High 3-A feat.

Why is this even brought when no one of the character do this?

 

[Ezaru]

Why is this even brought when no one of the character do this?

Because the situation is identical energy wise

Creating a character with infinite stamina is not a High 3-A feat.

Creating a character with regen that cannot be exhausted is not a High 3-A feat.

If it's over a finite timeframe why not?

I mean obviously no one is scaling Edo Tensei casters from Naruto to Universal+, but is there a reason besides incredulity?

Because it makes sense that if you can create a bucket that refills infinitely, in like, an instant, you would have infinite energy

 

[DivinumAeterna]

If the jar's interior was infinite, wouldn't Teyvat's oceans eventually drain into it? It's not like the salt inside is densely packed to occupy all of the infinite space, water could easily seep in. I really don't think mister Zhongli would endanger Teyvat's ecosystem like that if its infinite interior was the actual case lol

Though I definitely think it's somewhat impressive that Havria was able to create the salt jar, where does it even take energy from to produce more salt? Havria is literally dead. Sure this could be explained away by the idea that the jar COULD be infinite, but I really don't think so or Zhongli wouldn't be so callous with it. The salt hax must be crazy (or who knows, perhaps the air getting inside the jar is auto-transmuted by some sort of enchantment into salt, just like how Havria turned people into salt)

 

[Puppet43]

Zhongli would endanger Teyvat's ecosystem like that if its infinite interior was the actual case lol

Now that i think about it, Zhongli threw an infinite salt maker in the ocean, blud is gonna kill the life there lol

where does it even take energy from to produce more salt?

i think it produces endless salt on its own, do had to be powered by herself of something like