Ikki Kurogane vs Mega Alakazam

[Firephoenixearl]

Also some news, 2nd key ikki might end up as a Low 7-C.......

Im not finding any feats to scale him to so he will just scale to his ittou shura form from 1st key.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Flashes back to other Cavalry matchs made by earl...Glass houses my man, glass houses

Hmm, speed equal Im leaning on alakazam for his massive range advatage while ikki's desperado aura will be useful, I don't see many situations where ikki manages to get within range especially as trackless step seems liable to fail.

Well then this match will become an ap stomp...

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Desperado Aura doesn't need to be in range doe.

Well ikki can still fight Stella Vermillio. He can deal with her most potent attacks with skill and can has quite a bit of dura neg. Virtually nothing will change, as what he has fought doesn't change. It just became "all skill no ap/durability" instead of "a lot of skill, ap and durability".

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Then someone should add a note about the range of his aura being far higher then his normal combat range.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Then someone should add a note about the range of his aura being far higher then his normal combat range.

It's from realizing his presence. The better you are at realizing his presence the bigger his "range" is. Cus desperado aura is just you sensing "death" from your opponent. The further away you can sense your opponent from, the bigger your range. Which is why Shizuku couldn't feel Edel, while Kurono and Nene felt her from outside the city.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Huh, thats pretty neat actually, range based on preception of your opponent....

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah pretty much.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I've said it before, I'll say if again. Trackless Step is no more or less than practiced movements to trick the enemy's brain into categorizing you as a neutral stimuli. A neutral stimuli is literally just any stimuli you show no reaction to, and it exists because brains are limited and concentration is a thing. You can only concentrate on so many things, and when you concentrate on something there's something else you aren't noticing. The brain is still perceiving Ikki, it just disregards the information because that bladed dude running your way doesn't register as important on your head.

So, the moment you have someone without these holes and flaws due to mental limitations, the technique loses relevancy. Or when they have special senses that lack this "concentration" flaw because they register anything and everything all the time, whatever it is that it senses.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Except special movements wouldn't make a man charging you with a sword become neutral stimuli, the ability somehow tricks the mind into perceiving him as unimportant, thus it is effecting the mind. At least that's how I'm currently interpreting the issue.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Training really hard with a sword until you can move it faster than your shadow and embody the concept of slash to kill someone with superb Regenerationn should also not be possible, but hey it exists.

We have Killua making afterimage clones by stepping off beat, Ouma in Kengan perfectly changing directions at full speed defying physics and special footwork to close distance right away without moving any faster. This kind of stuff is not really rare, even if Trackless Step is among the most silly.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Actually i have a good comparison here

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

But all those abilities are considered hax/abilities, as far as I know we don't just label them as "yeah that works". Trackless step fools the mind, it effects the mind in such a way you stop precieving the guy charging you with the sword. This is mental manip all be it done in a bizarre fashion

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Let me put it like this moving faster then you shadow via training? Speed rating, regardless of how its done it is a speed feat. Embody the concept of slash? Concept manip/dura neg, concept of kill? Death manip, creating after images?Got a whole page on that one!

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I am not saying it is or isn't hax or mind Manip stuff, but movement and breathing are how Trackless Step works. My point is merely that Alakazam doesn't have the holes that Trackless Step abuses.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Wow...Sorry then I totally misuderstood your point....My apologies!

 

[GyroNutz]

What's Ikki's own resistance to mindhax like?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Resisted edel's presence and can fight unconscious so nothing will work really.

 

[GyroNutz]

Edelweiss doesn't have mind manip, and fighting unconcious < concious control over your body. Alakazam mindhaxes GG

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Wait fighting unconscious doesn't really cover all forms of mind manip, what does alakazam have available if he can actively tell ikkis mind to stop moving/fighting he should be able to effect ikki fine.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Are you talking about the quote that you linked on the David Warner thread?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also, like how you asked for feats of Alakazam's reaction while unconscious, could you provide Ikki's?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Even if you mind hax him won't really do much his instincts will still keep him up. It'd be different if it were body puppetry, mind hax really won't work on a guy who fights without a mind.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bro you're sounding like those guys who were debunked when they said Ultra Instinct acted the same.

It doesn't work like that.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Are you talking about the quote that you linked on the David Warner thread?

Don't remember which i posted. Likely not though i don't think I've quoted that this soon.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Except his mind can control his body, if his mind thinks the fight is over he's not gonna keep fighting, at least not without some feats to back it up. He can keep fighting when knocked out, that doesn't cover the idea "my brain thinks this fight is over Im gonna stop fighting now" He's able to stop actively in fights when he wants to unless his body has continued to fight in the past against his wishes I don't see how fighting unconscious helps him here

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bro you're sounding like those guys who were debunked when they said Ultra Instinct acted the same.

It doesn't work like that.

Ultra instinct is different. I mean ikki actually loses consciousness from damage and still gets up and fights than later on wakes up and doesn't realize nor remember what he's done.

 

[GyroNutz]

Being able to fight without thinking doesn't mean that if Alakazam gets him to think to do something, he won't do it. So long as Ikki can take concious action, he'll be affected by Zam's mind hax.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Fighting even while unconscious just means he can fight while unconscious.

It doesn't even mean he can battle if Alakazam mind haxes him into unconsciousness since it doesn't suddenly mean the mind hax can't overpower your natural instincts.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Hmm ikki's instincts kick in even when he's fully conscious and strongly believes in something.

As an example he was certain he could madoka stella, instinctively dodges then realizes he was wrong. Ikki's instincts kick in even when he's conscious.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Yes but unless they overwhelm him/take control of his body away from him I don't see how that helps. It sounds like they inform him of things/danger rather then ripping control from his conscious mind.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

But that still doesn't mean instinct overpower everything, like Alakazam's mindhax.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Considering they kick in when he literally doesn't have a conscious mind, no.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

But that still doesn't mean instinct overpower everything, like Alakazam's mindhax.

They overpower ikki's own mind.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

If thats the case can you provide scans?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Tbf, Zam has more than mindhax.

The match was basically to see if Zam's smarts counter Ikki's skill with their respective tools. Given Ikki resists precog and Zam resists Desperado Aura as Gar said in his original comment, it's who can abuse their remaining tools better, the extraordinary genius who knows everything and outperforms supercomputers, or the obscenely skilled student who outperforms masters in a matter of seconds?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

That's... not really overpowering, unless at any point does Ikki show that he has no control of them. And that still doesn't deny mind hax.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Cal

It's really not considering how much hax alakazam has vs a dude with a sword

Who said that Alakazam resists desperado aura actually?

 

[Schnee_One]

I did, Alakazam is well into the millions.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Millions? That's ugh for mind control resistance? What feat.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

What stops Alakazam from mindhaxing Ikki, then?