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Ikki Kurogane vs Mega Alakazam

Does Alakazam resist mind manipulation EDIT: He does, stops Fear then

Alakazam s Precog is moot so it kinda depends on who strikes first between death and mindhax
 
So due to both of their abilities, the two look each other in the eyes and know everything there is to know about the other?
 
I don't think Alakazam can do that because Type 4 is a thing, but Ikki needs to see a fighting style to copy it.
 
M-Zam's Trace ability likely makes him a Desperado rip-off due to power mimicry, but that's possibly a stretch.
 
Actually Ikki has never shown the passive paralysis nor any of the fate hax.

He may have done it here doe:

Ikki's Desperado Fear

Ikki believed so, and pushed aside the three people with his own indomitably strong force.

At that moment,

― Hmm?

He saw a piece of paper lightly fell from the Imperial Guards' sliced off happi coat's hem.

Then the pieces of paper fell like sliding under the feet of Ikki.

― Is this…?

Ikki touched them with his hand almost by reflex,

― Ah, d-don't touch thaaat!

The collapsed Imperial Guards stopped Ikki's action with a shouting, close voice.

But Ikki――caught sight of that a bit late.

It was a Stella's swimsuit photo that captured the precise moment she was fixing the part surrounding her buttocks.

― ――――…

― That's a medal that can only be given to the Imperial Guards who pledged allegiance to the Imperial Family! Give it baaaack!

They wouldn't hesitate to give their lives for the royal family.

In exchange for such loyalty, a dear treasured picture was given by the commander of the Imperial Guard.

The man whose treasure was arbitrarily touched raged and swung downward the western sword against Ikki.

That, yes, that was――such a foolish act, wasn't it?

In that case,

― The fact that this was only given to the Imperial Guards means that all these guys have something similar to this, isn't it?

He made a smile with just his mouth because he would waste the last chance to escape from the man that was the most broken in this place.

――Later on, the Imperial Guards spoke while shaking.

Of the day when their Princess came back, accompanied by a『demon』from the country of Japan.
It only seems to show when Desperados are bloodlusted (or gaule, Nassem, Edelweiss first time, Nene when leaving). So it would make sense, but anyway other than that i can't remember anything else.

About Alakazam using trace to copy stuff. Not happening, he's not copying "existing beyond logic, fate and causality" at least not without feats, which i doubt he has.

Alakazam's precog is negged, now the only problem is, Ikki's high base resistance to mind manip and his ability to work on instinct alone. He would literally be able to continue fighting even after mindhaxed (he does do stuff like duck on instinct, jump back on instinct etc).
 
I forgot to mention this key of ikki (High 7-A) lasts for a single minute. And it'll be downgraded likely massively but it's not a problem. This would still remain fair i believe.
 
I worry I'll regret getting into this, but....

Why does Ikki resistance Mega Alakazam's Precognition? The feat is:

"Its hidden psychic power has been unleashed. A glance at someone gives it knowledge of the course of that person's life, from birth to death."

Also, checking its entries, seems Let's Go added another entry on that topic:


"It's adept at precognition. When attacks completely miss Alakazam, that's because it's seeing the future."

Besides this, it should also have its abilities from being Abra, which arguably include other forms of Precognition/Instinctive Reaction:


"It hypnotizes itself so that it can teleport away when it senses danger, even if it is asleep.", "Sleeps 18 hours a day. If it senses danger, it will teleport itself to safety even as it sleeps."

"It senses impending attacks and TELEPORTS away to safety before the actual attacks can strike."

"Even while asleep, it maintains a telepathic radar. It teleports when it is threatened."

"It can read others' minds and will teleport away when danger approaches. You must clear your mind if you want to catch it."

"If it decides to teleport randomly, it evokes the illusion that it has created copies of itself."


Besides that, are we arguing Mega Alakazam is using Mind Manipulation? Based on what, though? It self-hypnotizes as Abra, but doesn't learn Hypnosis.

The only basises I can think of for it having Mind Manipulation is the confusion status Confusion can inflict, and Kadabra & Alakazam's intense headache inducing abilities.

"It is said to have an IQ of approximately 5,000. Its overflowing psychokinetic powers cause headaches to anyone nearby."

Confusion & Psychic are telekinesis, Psybeam is a "peculiar ray", & Psycho Cutter is "blades formed by psychic power".

Unless you mean with Night Shade, an attack which uses a frightening mirage, which Alakazam learns by level up in the Let's Go games?
 
Ikki resists because of this:

Acausality (Type 4. All desperados exist beyond fate of the world, completely transcending it. Through this Desperados ignore their restrictions from fate, Amane Shinomiya's Nameless Glory and even The Prime Minister who can see the fate of the entire world could not see anything about their fate or future)
 
Ah. So even if it senses the danger or reads Ikki's mind, that alert to a danger in the future may be for something that occured in the past because acausality?
 
You can't sense danger if you literally can't understand what the character is fated to do.
 
Imaginym said:
Ah. So even if it senses the danger or reads Ikki's mind, that alert to a danger in the future may be for something that occured in the past because acausality?
Click to expand...
Acausality only negs raw precog. Reading Ikki's mind would bypass acausality, but ikki has dealt with Mind reading from Touka Toudou so it wouldn't really work.
 
Eh, I'd question that. I don't assert that this is what would be done, but the wording implies to me it senses danger in general, not exclusively dangerous intents.

Suppose someone with Acausality Type 4 shows up, & pushes a rock off a cliff, from where it would fall onto someone with the ability to "sense danger" like Abra does. Would they NOT sense the danger of the falling rock because of the other person's Acausality Type 4?

A rock falling off a cliff & landing somewhere is quite a simple, predictable sequence of events, & it seems like it would quite reasonably follow cause & effect.

While, looking at Ikki's Type 4, it seems a little irrelevant, I am still curious about how/if it might affect something like that.

Acausality (Type 4. All desperados exist beyond fate of the world, completely transcending it. Through this Desperados ignore their restrictions from fate, Amane Shinomiya's Nameless Glory and even The Prime Minister who can see the fate of the entire world could not see anything about their fate or future)

(Although, I do wonder what their feats are for "ignoring their restrictions from fate" are.)


Suppose Alakazam decided to make illusionary copies of itself? What's Ikki's action then? Can he tell them apart?

Also, maybe I just didn't look hard enough, but I don't think I found an indication of a resistance to having his mind read.

Knowing what someone's doing or planning to do in the present is still useful, & I'm entirely not sure being able to change your fate means you'll suddenly stop thinking "I'm going to punch this guy".

Edit: @Firephoenixearl: What are Ikki's feats of dealing with Touka Toudou?
 
It depends on how the Danger sense works. You need to elaborate a lot more on it.

If Alakazam makes copies, info analysis will take care of it. That along with Ikki's omega senses. Do the copies actually exist or are they just mirages?

He literally fooled her ability to read mind and body signals.
 
@ Firephoenixearl: I'm not sure I CAN elaborate more on the danger sense. The hypothetical is hypothetical, & Abra's is detailed in Pokedex entries; I'm not sure it's given attention in the anime, manga, etc.

"Literally fooled"? Fooled by what means? Did he say/think "I'm gonna do X", then did Y? Did he make it look like he was gonna throw a right, then threw a left hook?

Also, how would he know that Alakazam is reading his mind to realize he needs to trick it?

I'd assume they're just illusionary copies.

How does Ikki deal with headaches from only being in Alakazam's proximity? And being that they're from its "overflowing psychokinetic powers", they may be more intense as Mega Alakazam.
 
Touka couldn't read his movements because he was acting purely on instinct.

His mind isn't acting for him, therefore reading it won't help.

Headaches are really not that bad compared to what Ikki has dealt with

Anyway, I think this is enough to confirm that Ikki will probably use his Death Hax first, so voting Ikki.
 
@Schnee One: Compared to what Ikki has dealt with? Apologies, but what specifically?

Also, you think what is enough to confirm Ikki will use his Death Hax first? When does he use it, IC?

Also, what are the statistics the characters are scaled to here? I mean, if Alakazam observes its precognition isn't working, it could just stat amp itself. And I don't mean just with Calm Mind:

"Closing both its eyes heightens all its other senses. This enables it to use its abilities to their extremes."

Supposing there's already a notable difference, Alakazam closing its eyes might be able to make it easy to kill quickly with telekinesis.
 
Yeah but what's there to say it's different from his precog? Precog does allow to sense danger so...

By fooled i mean she can passively read minds and electrict signals but she didn't realize Ikki's intention. So i guess he does actions without revealing his intent. So what looks like random things (like in Touka's case him slipping, was actually him throwing a rock into her saccabard to block her ultimate move) are actual strategies. That on top of him moving on instinct alone makes most forms of mind reading useless.

Well he would figure it out eventually. It literally takes Ikki 2 clashes before Perfect Vision kicks in. Once that kicks in ikki knows everything about his opponent.

Ikki's ears are literally so good he can sense voids in sound. Due to there always being some form of sound around, as long as something is or isn't physically there ikki will realize it due to noticing the voids in sound. This negs most forms of invisibility, illusions etc. His senses are really stupid.

Hmm he fought at his full potential in front of Yuudai Moroboshi who just by taking an offensive stance released enough pressure to make the whole stadium fear him, Stella Vermillio whose fear was even greater than Yuudai's and even Edelweiss who can literally paralyze you and make you hallucinate with her presence alone.
 
Imaginym said:
Also, you think what is enough to confirm Ikki will use his Death Hax first? When does he use it, IC?

Also, what are the statistics the characters are scaled to here? I mean, if Alakazam observes its precognition isn't working, it could just stat amp itself. And I don't mean just with Calm Mind:

"Closing both its eyes heightens all its other senses. This enables it to use its abilities to their extremes."

Supposing there's already a notable difference, Alakazam closing its eyes might be able to make it easy to kill quickly with telekinesis.
Click to expand...
Tbf, in this key never. He just has it because other desperados can do it, so he logically ca do it too, but i doubt he'd use it soon. His fear manip might be a lot more in character.

Ikki has 500x stat amps so Alakazam ain't winning an amp fight anytime soon.
 
That scaling chain seem like feats of Fear Manipulation & Illusion Creation resistances, less so than resisting experiencing headaches.

In any case, what AP/SS/Durability values are the combatants scaled to?
 
Imaginym said:
That scaling chain seem like feats of Fear Manipulation & Illusion Creation resistances, less so than resisting experiencing headaches.
In any case, what AP/SS/Durability values are the combatants scaled to?
Click to expand...
Pressure or not he's not resisting them he's taking them head on and fighting despite all those. And even against Stella he went unconscious and still fought. No amount of mind pressure would do anything to an unconscious opponent.

All are massively in Alakazam's favour but it doesn't really matter. Ikki still 1 shots. Due to phantom form.
 
Which form is he in, how likely is he to use Phantom Form in-character, for what reasons, & how is it performed? Does it require travel?
 
Imaginym said:
Pressure? He fights unconscious?
Also, "Phantom Form"?
Click to expand...
Yeah he was so scared of stella at some point, he Madoka'd her while unconscious. And by pressure i mean he literally fights people that give him all these effects: (gonna repost from a previous thread)

Desperado Fear

The pressure that was like the sky falling came suddenly.


The bike had been advancing in accordance with Shizuku's navigation for some time.ÒÇÇExiting the urban areas with many people, and even exiting the mountain road.ÒÇÇIn a deserted place, Hagun Academy's main school was located.ÒÇÇIn that deserted, desolate place, the bike entered, and it was in that moment.

A sudden feeling of oppression. To a heaviness as if one's gut was being crushed, Ikki brought the bike to a sudden stop, its tires sliding.

"O-Oniisama!? Wh-What's wrong!?"

At the sudden stop, Shizuku cried out in surprise. She didn't understand. As a fighter, Shizuku was inexperienced.

But Ikki comprehended it. That right now, he—had stepped foot into the domain of someone wicked. Therefore to Shizuku's question, he had no room to answer. Ikki just suppressed the dread that was freezing his body, and he calmed his breath. With his right hand, he summoned Intetsu, and looked up at the sky.

On the rooftop of Akatsuki Academy's main building. At that remarkably high place, there was something shining white.

Was it the moon? No. It was white, but the thing shining weakly had the shape of a person.

It was the shape of a woman who appeared like a Valkyrie from European legends, holding swords in both hands and pointing down.

"An enemy!?"

Following Ikki's gaze, Shizuku also noticed the presence. She immediately jumped from the bike to the ground, and manifested Yoishigure. But—the figure in white showed no interest in Shizuku. Those beautiful eyes were staring entirely at Ikki, and no one else.

Ikki also realized that immediately… and he decided.

"Shizuku. Alice is inside the school, right?"

"Eh… ah, yes. That's right."

"In that case, go ahead on your own. I'll be fine here by myself."

"No, they've declared war on us. There's no need to fuss about one-on-one duels—"

"I'm begging you, Shizuku. Go."

Ikki's tone as he bluntly refusing her didn't allow any argument.

"Onii…-sama?"

At her brother's suddenly grim tone, Shizuku glanced at his expression… and gasped. Because Ikki's expression had become stiffer than she had ever seen before.

"Is it… that strong an enemy…?"

"…Yeah, probably."

"Then that's even more reason for both of us—"

"No."

To Shizuku was trying to persuade him a second time, Ikki shook his head.

"I told you, didn't I? I want to follow your wishes, Shizuku. Because I was resolved, I came along. If we don't accomplish that, there'd be no point in coming this far. If you don't hurry to Alice, you might not make it. So leave this place to me."

Ikki was stubborn to the end. If she combined everything they said up to now, even Shizuku understood. Namely, Ikki was saying this.

 —If Shizuku stayed here, Ikki wouldn't be able to protect her.

That woman in white was that strong an enemy.

"…I get it."

Making that guess, Shizuku nodded. And—

"Onii-sama, please handle this."

Entrusting this situation to her brother, she entered Akatsuki Academy alone.

The woman in white didn't obstruct her. Like the rest of this entire time, she had only gazed on Ikki who still remained.

"Shizuku was transparent as far as you're concerned, huh?"

"Yes. Because Lord Wallenstein is also inside. Besides, whether I destroy both of you here, or I destroy you here and follow her afterward, it would make little difference in terms of time."

A voice that echoed gracefully like song shook the night. In reply, Ikki—

"I guess that's so for you."

—with a moaning voice, he muttered those words.

…This is bad. Though since they called themselves a school, it only makes sense for them to have teachers.

The students were already that level. A-rank would not be out of the question. He was already resigned to that.

—But as I thought, this was unexpected.

Yes. Ikki knew who this white-clad Valkyrie was.

"For those who aspire to swordsmanship, all of them know your nickname. Wearing a dress of holy white, and carrying a pair of wing-like swords. The world's greatest criminal who's too strong to arrest. And at the same time… possessing the most extreme swordsmanship. Standing at the summit as the world's greatest swordsman. ―'Twin-Wings' Edelweiss. Without a doubt, that's you, right?"

"Certainly. There's no mistake that I am called Twin-Wings."

At Ikki's question, the woman responded with a nod of affirmation, and showed Ikki a somewhat puzzled expression.

"But I don't understand. Even though you know my identity, why have you drawn your sword? You are not a swordsman who doesn't know the difference between yourself and the enemy if you should cross blades, I think. But despite that, to remain unafraid to this degree."

"…Even though I wanted to bluff so you didn't see through that."

Having his own fear pointed out, Ikki let out a dry laugh that spoke to his inner thoughts.

Honestly speaking, Ikki also understood.

Ahh, it's just like said. …Just now, I was foolhardy.

He knew that. Because he was an excellent swordsman, he could grasp how great the difference in strength was between them. He couldn't win here. And more than that, it was true, the one before his eyes was genuinely—the world's strongest. It couldn't be compared to something like the summit of the Seven Stars. Likely, this was an enemy Ikki should face after following his path as a swordsman for years, even decades, of constant tireless training…. No doubt, in the battlefield right here, he could not qualify as an opponent in the same dimension as he was now.

This meeting was too premature. It would not even be a contest to begin with. Twin Wings was—saying this deliberately, in order to give him a chance to withdraw. Ikki guessed that, and thought.

How gentle, this person.

She would probably let Ikki get away if he turned around and left right now. A truly gentle person.

But, I'm sorry too. I can't possibly leave.

He was certainly scared. Just from her gaze, he could feel his entire body shaking, and cold sweat sliding down his back. His teeth were shivering, and his legs were about to give way. It was the first time Ikki felt like this. To have fear fighting him like this.

But, that he had a reason to fight that terror. He had a reason to stay here! Therefore—

"…This is surprising, isn't it?"

Ikki, putting on the strongest face he could, smiled.

"The world's strongest swordsman is questioning the fighting spirit of an enemy who's already drawn his sword?"

He thrust the point of his crow-black sword at the woman in white, with clear enmity.

In response, the woman in white nodded calmly.

"—Certainly. These words are unneeded."

And it became the trigger.

"If I was not a member of this plot, I would have no grudge against you people. However, because you've come to find your enemy to whom I hold a debt, I won't turn a blind eye."

From the towering school building, the woman in white leaped to the ground silently. With a grace like she had used fluttering wings to swoop down. At the moment she landed on the ground, Ikki felt fear as if his own heart was exploding. His entire body, his instinct, his soul. All of them shrieked.

 Run away.

Run away.

I'm begging you, run away.

If you don't you will die here—

***


This sudden attack was heavily planned. That was the suspicion they felt.

"Well, at any rate, once we get there everything will become clear. So for that reason―"

As quickly as possible. At those words, they put even more strength into their legs. …At that moment. Faster than a second, a sudden gust struck their bodies and brought them to a half.

―In fact, no wind was blowing on them. The sea was also calm.

However, on the expressions on the two world-class knights, trembles of obvious dismay were spreading. Their legs were shaking, and their brows were sweating unnaturally.

Yes... what stopped their legs wasn't the wind. It was an aberrant sword spirit that could be felt from a long distance away. To the point where the ground in front of them was going blurry in their eyes, as if a drawn sword was pressed to their throats. The two were both superior knights, but they could feel it and it paralyzed them.

―Going toward that was dangerous. At that instinctive warning, the two had stopped running.

"Th-The sword spirit… just now… it can't be…."

"H-Hey hey hey. Are you kidding? Our attackers have someone outrageous mixed among them…!"

***


At that moment.

"K-Kurogane!"

She turned her gaze toward the voice—

"…Isn't that World Clock?"

"Edelweiss, you bich—!"

Kurono Shinguuji, the World Clock, had jumped over the wall, and sighted Ikki's bloody and fallen form. Pulling out her Device, a pair of one-white-one-black handguns in anger, she turned the muzzles toward Edelweiss.


"Calm yourself."


At the instant Edelweiss was going to be shot between in the eyes, the fingers on the trigger were frozen in place. It was as if Kurono's heart had exploded from fear. She had landed on the ground, and only just barely pointed the gun barrels, but even so her fingers didn't move.

What was stopping her was none other than Kurono's own instincts. Because if she moved her fingers just a little, the battle was start instantly, and she knew she couldn't win this fight.

"You monster…."

"Even though it's been a long time since we last met, this is your greeting?"

Against Kurono on whose face an uneasy look was spreading, Edelweiss spoke with a cool countenance.
Phantom form is him using his blade in illusionary form to render you unconscious if it hits a vital spot. I think at this point i'll just put it as Willpower Manip since willpower is what they described can resist it in verse. It also makes sense. But yeah it's just him attacking with his sword, but it's a 1 hit kill.
 
Well then.... It should also be noted that you said "All are massively in Alakazam's favour but it doesn't really matter. Ikki still 1 shots. Due to phantom form."

If Alakazam realizes its precognition isn't working, & it's not getting anything from reading his mind (Because he only acts on instinct.), what would stop it from just shutting its eyes, amping its abilities, & then using that supposed massive advantage to one-shot Ikki?

Also, it's difficult to hit someone with a sword if you're being telekinetically restrained.
 
Yes because Phantom Form negates durability. Alakazam being massively supperior doesn't mean much.

How would he 1 shot Ikki?

Depends, how strong is the telekinesis?
 
As I detailed above, telekinetic powers are its main form of attack.

"It is said to have an IQ of approximately 5,000. Its overflowing psychokinetic powers cause headaches to anyone nearby."

Psychokinetic refers to psychokinesis , which is defined as "The movement of physical systems and objects by the use of psychic power."

Abra's reason for sleeping 18 hours a day is to keep its "telekinetic powers".

Kadabra without its spoon is said to be limited to half the usual amount of its telekinetic powers.

Alakazam lacks the muscular strength to do so on its own, so it holds up its head using its psychokinetic powers instead.

Confusion's descriptions include: "A weak telekinetic attack", & "The target is hit by a weak telekinetic force." & Psychic has the practically identical "A strong telekinetic attack." & "The target is hit by a strong telekinetic force."

Heck, Alakazam's evolutionary line's signature move (ONLY Kadabra & Alakazam learn it.) is Kinesis.

Not that it doesn't have other options (Psybeam, Psycho Cutter, etc.), but if there's any power it primarily uses, it's Telekinesis. (Well, maybe not the MOVE Telekinesis, since that's not entirely an attack.)
 
All of those imply "telekinetic attack", not actual "telekinesis". Telekinetic attack would mean a psychic blast of some sorts, not actually controlling the body of his opponent.

Also Ikki's 48x and 500x amp would let him blitz if need be. His danger sense will keep him outta danger against just about anything.
 
Aren't those amps associated with a form/key change? And wouldn't psychokinetic power allow one to restrain someone's body?

Also, a lot of the time, IIRC, Confusion & Psychic are shown as moving the victim, not other objects, to attack.

Not to mention, if Alakazam already one shots, it matters less; It doesn't have to cross the distance Ikki does to damage him, & can teleport in any case.
 
Since when does Ikki need to cross the distance to damage him? He has more then just phantom form you know.
 
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