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Ikki Kurogane vs Cole MacGrath

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Right so allow me to elaborate on what happens here

Cole uses range Spam.

Ikki's skill alongside being able to somehow dodge "Conceptual tracking" let's him get close to Cole

Ikki tries to slash

Is any of this correct?
 
Schnee One said:
Right so allow me to elaborate on what happens here
Cole uses range Spam.

Ikki's skill alongside being able to somehow dodge "Conceptual tracking" let's him get close to Cole

Ikki tries to slash

Is any of this correct?
Click to expand...
Quick correction, he didn't dodge conceptual tracking, he nullified it.

But yeah that seems about correct, but a few things happen along the way:

1. Ikki opens up with Pseudo Ittou Shura for 48x reaction/thought speed

2. By the time Ikki closes in Perfect Vision will have kicked in.
 
Something something Ikki outskills

He's already fought and beat a lightning user with the ability to read people's minds via nueroelectrical impulses, can control his muscles to just ignore electrocution, and has fought dozens of range spammers in the past and usually winds up closing the distance via skill anyway.

Although, before I vote, what can Ikki do to survive Ionic Drain stealing the energy that keeps his nervous system and brain functioning?
 
The thing is, Ionic Drain drains a persons neuro/bioelectric energy from their body, which pretty much shuts it down, as the energy that is required to keep it functioning is now gone.

I've only seen the anime for the series, so my knowledge is limited at best.
 
The 48x boost comes from Ittou Shura so I don't think that will matter

That said, of what I said is correct, Ikki needs to have a way to survive being instantly having his body turned off due to his brain not having any ability to think or act as it's nrainwaves can't operate.
 
Well, at least we know for sure that Cole has a wincon

The question now is, does he get enough time to use it? Evil Cole in character doesn't care much for collateral damage and loves overkill, so it'd be pretty normal for him to use it when pressured or annoyed.

When he see's Ikki running up on him, dodging or resisting his fire and lightning, he's definitely gonna pop one of his Ionic attacks. Ikki will probably be able to dodge Ionic Storm, Ionic Vortex may be able to snag him via dragging him into with with its vacuum effect, but I doubt it.

Assuming Cole hasn't already used with Ionic Drain, once he see's Ikki dodging his aforementioned ultimate attacks, he's definitely using it. Especially if Ikki gets in striking range. Unless Ikki immediately cuts off Cole's head or hacks him to pieces, Cole's regen and pain tolerance should let him activate Drain.
 
Ikki never really goes for the kill in character, usually opting for incapacitation.

For example, he cut off the arms of the thugs earlier in the series.

Not, the stamina drain aspect of his blade will likely incap Cole, but I don't think that's enough to put him down before he plucks electricity out of Ikki and instantly killing him.
 
Cutting of Cole's arms is definitely gonna set him off, prompting him to use Ionic Drain to heal his injuries and get his attacker off him.

Also, how will his speed amps affect the match?
 
Not much, his 48x amp is in Ittou Shura judging by his profile, so Ikki will get probably minor speed amps.

It doesn't really matter though, Ikki will absolutely be able to get close to Cole regardless of what he does unless he stands there

Problem is, I don't think Ikki can beat his Bio drain unless he cuts off his head. Which like I said, he doesn't do in character.
 
Fair enough.

All in all, I vote Cole via Regen making sure he doesn't die instantly and Ionic Drain allowing him to effectively injure Ikki.

Ikki: becomes so skilled it's like he's cheating

Cole: straight up cheats lol
 
Ok so i go to sleep and wake up to pretty good clarifications of the fight. I appreciate that, saves me questions. So ionic drain affects the brain/electric signals which means Ikki fighting unconscious doesn't do shizz cus he can't move either way due to lacking the signals to control his body. That would be a wincondition sure.

However something to keep in mind is Ikki's senses. Sensing danger and seeing the future will definitely trigger when his opponent is about to turn him into a human vegetable. So once that's done Trackless Step and Edelweiss' sword style can enter the fight. Creating pseudo-teleport (i guess i should put Pseudo-Teleportation on Ikki's profile by now, cus it's a lot easier to understand like that).

Cole's regen doesn't help vs Phantom Form.

And no Ittou Amps for Ikki, as OP said "Ikki doesn't feel like using his amps". Only pseudo ittou shura will be allowed (like ittou shura, but without the time limit and the speed amp only to his thought/reaction speed).
 
Danger Sense may help him to initially avoid said bio drain, however unless he has a ranged attack I'm not aware of I don't believe he won't try to get close.

Trackless step won't work, Cole is able to sense even the smallest level of neuroelectricity in the body to tell where he is, in fact Ikki using this may prove fatal if he attempts to get close using it because he will lure himself into a false sense of security and get biodrained as a result if he gets close.

Phantom Form will put Colr down quickly, but it's not instantaneous, Cole can still perform the necessary action to biodrain or regain stamina from sources of electricity around him depending on where Ikki takes him down.

Does Ikki have ranged attacks at all?
 
He will try to get close, it's his go to move. Danger sense will just tell him that something is coming that he needs to avoid.

Trackless Step enters the unconsciousness though. Other senses or Extrasensory Perception doesn't help. Everyone and their grandmother has ESP in rakudai, trackless step still works.

It is instant. With ikki's level of skill it's quite impossible for him to deliver a non lethal blow. Once a lethal blow is delivered the effect is instantaneous. And the stamina explanation on the profile was actually retconned, cus now it's more like social influencing, so that it works on wrong impression (im assuming it's something along the lines of "you think you're hit so you fall unconscious"), and you'd need a will that transcends your body to resist that (such as being controlled by someone else).

Not really. The only thing that could work like that is him throwing his blade. Which is decently in character if needed, as in he used it as a strat against Daniel Dandallion (threw his sword and used a very thin thread to pull it back).
 
Fair

Being unconscious doesn't stop electricity in the brain, unless Ikki is literally dead. Brain Waves need Neuroelectricity to keep active and alive. If Ikki doesn't have that in his body, he would be dead. Unconsciousness doesn't stop Neuroelectricity from being in your body.

Define lethal, since Cole has Low Mid anything short of a decapitation wing do anything.

Cole can grab the Blade with his TK and toss it away alternatively he redirects it because he has a ton of projectile redirection techniques.
 
Not Ikki being unconscious. Ikki enters Cole's unconsciousness, so that cole's brain blocks him as unnecessary info. ESP doesn't help against this. This makes Ikki teleport from Cole's perspective.

Lethal on paper, it doesn't deal any damage at all, but it just needs to go through a vital spot (heart, head, decapitation, a vertical slice in half etc.

TK's gonna be hard vs someone with way more lifting strength than his own.
 
Cole resists Telepathy from Sasha so that's out. And I don't know how he's going to stop him from sensing electricity anyway.

Heart is covered by regen, and I don't recall him decapitating people

Tossing your sword completely mitigated lifting strength because the Sword is already left Ikki's hands and thus his lifting strength no longer matters

On top of this, having Higher Lifting strength being able to counter TK was debunked here https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2101719?useskin=oasis though it's a long thread TBF.
 
One more issue is how all versions of Cole has some sort of homing lightning arcs or the omnidirectional shockwave as a JIC move, used in the comics. Former is more clear but latter seems to be whenever he powers up.

Radar Sense is always good to keep track of an enemy, and as Schnee said, mind res. And yeah metal against Cole is a hard thing to make work due to gigawatt blades and just him being naturally electrocutive.
 
It's not telepathy. It's basic human brains. Everyone blocks things from their consciousness only keeping the details they deem as important (example you don't notice a pebble on the street when you see a hot girl passing by). Ikki knows this and by moving in a certain way people perceive him as unnecessary info and not dangerous and therefore block him from sight. (At the end of this post is the in verse explanation of trackless step)

He does do that in phantom form. Remember when he fought stella? His blade literally went from her right shoulder to her left waist. A slice in half, no damage dealt, instant incap. He doesn't do that usually cus in tournaments phantom form is not allowed. Otherwise, why would regen cover something when there is no damage dealt? It's just a sword that's going through you, 0 damage (bookmaker style i guess you could say).

That's true i was talking about him disarming ikki, but why would tk work against higher lifting strenght. If your TK can lift 1 ton and i can lift 10 tons, how in hell will you be capable to remove the sword from my hand with TK?

Trackless Step:

"I can tell by looking. It's obvious that her response to her opponent's movements worsened all of a sudden."

"It's just as Stella-chan says. Even though the President is moving normally, it looks as if she can't see it."

Arisuin also felt that there was a problem with Shizuku's movements. And of course, Ikki did too. But Ikki could already see a few more things than the other two.

"…It's exactly like that, probably."

"Eh?"

"Shizuku really can't see her. I've also seen something like this once before."

It was that time before his debut battle, when he met the Yaksha Princess Nene Saikyou at the reception desk.

"That time, Saikyou-sensei got right in front of me in an instant. Even though I didn't let her out of my line of sight for even a moment, she got to my chest before I knew it. Right now, Raikiri is probably using the same body technique, I think."


"Ahaha. As expected of Kuro-bou. You noticed it after all, huh?"


A voice descended from an angle above. Ikki turned his eyes in that direction, where a bewitching petite woman dressed in a kimono and an imposing woman clad in a suit were descending the bowl-shaped stadium's stairway.

"Hey there~. It's been a while ÔÖ¬."

"Saikyou-sensei, and Madam Director. The two of you together, I wonder if something's going on?"

"What, she just called out because she saw you guys, not because there's a reason."

The board chairman, Kurono Shinguuji, answered Arisuin's question. These two only came to see the duel between fellow B-Ranks in an ordinary Selection Battle. They only greeted them because Ikki's group was having an interesting conversation.

"…Hey, Nene-sensei. The thing that Ikki noticed, is what he's saying correct?"

Saikyou-sensei confirmed Stella's question with a nod.

"Yep. That is an ancient Japanese martial arts technique called Trackless Step that merges breath control and footwork. Or something like that―"

"…Eh?"

In an instant. Saikyou who had to be at least five meters away from Stella reappeared very close, and―raised Stella's plump breasts from below while rubbing them.

"Eek!?"

"Oh, this kind of feeling? Well, no milk's coming out. Yet it's super soft~ÔÖ¬"

"Kyaaaaa! Wh-Wh-What are you doing!?"

"I was wondering if rubbing yours would make mine grow."

"If you want to grow then go rub your own!"

"I don't have anything to rub, IDIOT!"

"You're getting angry at the victim!?"

Ignoring the two noisy people, Kurono asked something of Ikki.

"Kurogane. Someone like you has already seen through how Trackless Step works, right?"

To that inquiry, he nodded.

"Somewhat. If you tell me to do the same thing, I could probably do it."

"Hey Ikki, what is this Trackless Step?"

"Let's see, humans are nothing more than animals, and like a machine they can't process all the tiny details that they see and hear, and the brain certainly can't consciously recognize all of those sights and sounds. After all, if they processed and analyzed everything they see and hear, the brain will burn out. Therefore, the human brain will toss low-priority information into the unconscious, and abdicate recognizing them in order to ease the load on itself. This thing called Trackless Step is a martial arts technique that applies peculiar breath control and footwork to slip its user's existence into the opponent's unconsciousness. As a result, even though Shizuku can still see Toudou-san, she has become unable to recognize that fact. Even though the brain and the eye can capture Toudou-san's movements, they can't be processed because the consciousness is classifying them as unnecessary information, to the degree that a life-threatening danger can approach to little more than a blink away.

"Spot on. You understood it well."

Kurono praised him as if in admiration, because there were no faults in Ikki's answer that divulged the mysterious mechanism that was assaulting Shizuku.

Right. There was only unconsciousness within.

The opponent was making everything about herself imperceptible by shifting her breath and body a half-step, and by sliding into that interval, she had dodged the awareness locking onto her. That was the mechanism behind the old-style footwork Trackless Step.
 
Except Cole explicitly recognizes all forms of electricity, his brain is forced to die that as a result of his radar sense, even then, Ikki has no knowledge Cole can actually do this, blocking him from site dies nothing either because his Radar sense operates independently of this. Sire your brain function recognizes all details but only focuses on big ones, but then you have his radar sense, which is exclusively electricity.

Jumping to slice Cole from above is suicide due to his bio drain unless he can move in mid air.
 
Im wating for someone to throw ikki against mercer :p

Leaning on cole for the moment ikki in character doesn't seem liable to go for the head and all cole needs to do is ionic drain him and cole has tracking lightning. Not all extrasensory preception is made equal and I have trouble buying ikki can "Confuse" coles electric senses...
 
Well as i said, people can sense magic, it doesn't help vs Trackless Step. But if you can give some explicit proof that Cole's mind specifically doesn't have an unconsciousness/perceives absolutely everything on every detail no matter how big or small (something along the lines of he can perfectly/passively feel all the electricity inside every human within his range of ESP would do the job too, as long as it's passive, not him focusing on it).

He doesn't need to jump to slice doe, he has used phantom form without jumping before such as in the fights against Touka and the rest before the SSSAF finals.

Ok so this all relies on Trackless Step, if it works, Ikki should take this, if not, i don't see Ikki taking this in a million years without amps.
 
That sounds like an absurdly high proof needed for something that's basically tricking your conventional senses. On the first place do those people detect the exact magic on a person?

If Cole can pull off a Kinetic Pulse just in time he might be able to stop Trackless Step's post-attack in that case.
 
Core you know the comics so feel free to correct me

Didn't Cole's Radar sense literally track electricity to revive him while the dude was unconscious?
 
That sounds familiar but about to go into class rn. That's after when the building was destroyed during that fight with David right?
 
Ciruno Fortes said:
That sounds like an absurdly high proof needed for something that's basically tricking your conventional senses. On the first place do those people detect the exact magic on a person?
Click to expand...
Not really. Jin Mori Ri pulled it off with skill. He can tap into his own unconsciousness, that is the in verse counter to this.

And the dudes in rakudai just feel magic presence from things. Example, when ouma was launching magical vacuum waves stella could sense them due to them being made out of magic.
 
Ciruno Fortes said:
That sounds familiar but about to go into class rn. That's after when the building was destroyed during that fight with David right?
Click to expand...
I believe yes

Get Monkey
 
Sorry for being late guys, had class and work all day so free time was limited

Anyway, if I'm understanding the current arguments right, its basically whether or not Ikki can slip past the Radar Pulse and if Cole can come back from the Ghost Form strikes?

Well I'm sorta kinda as unsure as you guys tbh. Iirc, Touka Toudo's Reverse Sight and Trackless Sight worked off of her ability to read the brains electrical impulses and know how to move in a way that the brain can't process normally. While Cole can't use Radar Pulse to read people's brains (well, he sorta can, but not like the way Touka does), its still a passive ability that senses out nearby electricity (both the kind in machines and the kind in people) and lets Cole know whats going on. This even works opponents that are FTE to Cole's perception (Kessler, Reaper Conduits, Vermaak 88 shotgunners, etc) and teleporters (the second they pop back in they're on the map). Combine this with its ability to sense out hostile intent (even works on people Cole hasn't even noticed yet or are shapeshifting) and its crazy range, and its a very helpful tool in this fight.

I know that Ikki can move in a way that people can't detected, but given that Cole's passive radar can track people who are FTE to him and haven't been noticed by him visually, I think its fair to say that Radar Pulse has a shot at detecting Ikki.

Also about resurrection, not sure about unconscious radar tracking, but Cole has shown that his body can drain electricity from nearby sources even without him willing it to (as shown at the beginning of the game and in the prequel comics, as well as some parts of game 1 and 2), so it may possible for him to come back from Ghost Form strikes from that.
 
Now that I think about it.

This Cole does passively shock enemies when they get close yes?
 
Schnee One said:
Now that I think about it.
This Cole does passively shock enemies when they get close yes?
Click to expand...
Oh, that's interesting, but not gonna help. Ikki has dealt with Touka's shockings. He just body controls his nerves into working again.
 
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