Ichigo and Aizen resistances upgrade

[Arc7Kuroi]

Thanks Jvando, and yes AP doesn't limit Aizen here, the only time AP negs hax is when the character is vastly superior to the other, and considering Aizen isn't vastly superior to himself, he can't powernull his own power.

Updated Staff tally on Aizen EE:
4 Agree: Griff, Mitch, Clover, Jvando
2 Neutral: US69 (leaning towards agree), KT
2 Disagree: Damage, Duedate

Updated Staff tally on everything else:
All agree

Ant, KillerNerd007 said he can apply the changes tomorrow, I'll direct him to someone who can unlock profiles tomorrow.

 

[Damage3245]

Thanks Jvando, and yes AP doesn't limit Aizen here, the only time AP negs hax is when the character is vastly superior to the other, and considering Aizen isn't vastly superior to himself, he can't powernull his own power.

Why are you applying the Reiatsu nullifying powers mechanic to this as a reason for why the existence erasure should be working on Aizen?

That only works on the assumption that the existence erasure should be working on everyone and everything in the first place which is what is being disputed.

Let me put it another way. Aizen doesn't erase the floor beneath his feet, right? Or Kyoka Suigetsu in his hand?

 

[AppleLord]

Why are you applying the Reiatsu nullifying powers mechanic to this as a reason for why the existence erasure should be working on Aizen?

Reiatsu null only works on weak characters.

That only works on the assumption that the existence erasure should be working on everyone and everything in the first place which is what is being disputed.

This is the standard assumption for every power in fiction, until proven otherwise.

Let me put it another way. Aizen doesn't erase the floor beneath his feet, right?

Hado 90 is a box. And it also affected the floor. Go see the scans, it left it a clean surface.

Or Kyoka Suigetsu in his hand?

Aizen’s body became one with KS at this point in the story when he tanked Hado 90. KS wasn’t in his hand. Aizen was sealed to the chair.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Why are you applying the Reiatsu nullifying powers mechanic to this as a reason for why the existence erasure should be working on Aizen?

Because the only instance in which hax fails in Bleach is when it gets powernulled by someone vastly stronger.

That only works on the assumption that the existence erasure should be working on everyone and everything in the first place which is what is being disputed.

Let me put it another way. Aizen doesn't erase the floor beneath his feet, right? Or Kyoka Suigetsu in his hand?

This is equivalent to saying “how can DB characters be planetary when their attacks only destroy buildings”. We know that you’re subjected to your own reiatsu as per what happened with Ichigo. Furthermore, you’re committing somewhat of an AoE fallacy here by claiming it can’t be as potent as it is because it isn’t affecting the environment. What happens to the ground is entirely irrelevant, especially when we know Shinigami need to be able to withstand their own reiatsu aura.

 

[Damage3245]

Because the only instance in which hax fails in Bleach is when it gets powernulled by someone vastly stronger.

But I'm not arguing that Aizen is powernulling it. I'm saying it's possible that it's just not affecting him in the first place.

This is equivalent to saying “how can DB characters be planetary when their attacks only destroy buildings”. We know that you’re subjected to your own reiatsu as per what happened with Ichigo. Furthermore, you’re committing somewhat of an AoE fallacy here by claiming it can’t be as potent as it is because it isn’t affecting the environment. What happens to the ground is entirely irrelevant, especially when we know Shinigami need to be able to withstand their own reiatsu aura.

It not effecting the environment implies that there may be a degree of control over it. If Aizen can stop himself from disintegrating the ground under him, or stop his sword in his hand from being erased, then that could also mean that he isn't for some random reason inherently resistant to existence erasure, but it just not targetting himself with his own Reiatsu.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It not effecting the environment implies that there may be a degree of control over it. If Aizen can stop himself from disintegrating the ground under him, or stop his sword in his hand from being erased, then that could also mean that he isn't for some random reason inherently resistant to existence erasure, but it just not targetting himself with his own Reiatsu.

The issue I take with this is one’s reiatsu aura isn’t a targeted ability, it’s a passive aura that can have its intensity increased or suppressed. There’s nothing to indicate, nor precedent, for characters being able to de-localize their aura around them. We only see the opposite, Ichigo gets crushed by his own reiatsu, Kenpachi’s own reiatsu chips and sharpens his blade.

Hell if Aizen could “turn his reiatsu off on himself” then Kisuke plugging his vents wouldn’t have exploded his reiatsu. Rather, if what you claim were true, nothing would’ve happened to Aizen, the reiatsu wouldn’t have exploded because it doesn’t affect Aizen. However, that isn’t the case.

 

[Antvasima]

@Arc7Kuroi @Damage3245

Can each of you explain the for and against arguments regarding the disputed part of this revision please?

Also, is somebody willing to apply the already accepted parts yet?

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi @Damage3245

Can each of you explain the for and against arguments regarding the disputed part of this revision please?

Also, is somebody willing to apply the already accepted parts yet?

I think the majority are in favor of it so the changes can possibly go ahead.

I'm just personally unconvinced of the assumptions used, where "Ichigo being crushed under the weight of his own excessive Reiatsu" means that any negative effects Reiatsu holds is inflicted on the wielder of that Reiatsu. It's then assumed that since Aizen has been shown to erase the existence of certain lesser beings like humans or some Shinigami, then that negative effect is also inflicted on himself automatically. And since Aizen is obviously not erased from existence by virtue of existing, he must possess some unexplained inherent resistance to having his existence erased.

I just don't personally buy that assumption, though I can see how others would.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems too farfetched and speculative to me as well. My apologies.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Arc7Kuroi @Damage3245

Can each of you explain the for and against arguments regarding the disputed part of this revision please?

Also, is somebody willing to apply the already accepted parts yet?

To recap the for side:

In Bleach if you are being subjected to reiatsu based hax, if your reiatsu isn’t far higher than the hax user, you will be affected by the hax. Additionally, we see several times in Bleach characters are subjected to their own reiatsu aura. Finally, Aizen’s reiatsu aura has EE. Combine all 3 and you have Aizen being subjected to EE hax, and since Aizen isn’t far stronger than himself, he’d be resisting it.

Ill message the OP to come apply the changes, if you’d like to mention him he’s @KillerNerd007.

 

[Antvasima]

In Bleach if you are being subjected to reiatsu based hax, if your reiatsu isn’t far higher than the hax user, you will be affected by the hax. Additionally, we see several times in Bleach characters are subjected to their own reiatsu aura. Finally, Aizen’s reiatsu aura has EE. Combine all 3 and you have Aizen being subjected to EE hax, and since Aizen isn’t far stronger than himself, he’d be resisting it.

And is what he is doing truly existence erasure and not simply automatic absorption of the spiritual components that create the citizens of Soul Society?

Ill message the OP to come apply the changes, if you’d like to mention him he’s @KillerNerd007.

Okay.

@KillerNerd007

Are you willing to help out here please?

Also, do you know all of the standard specifics for how to edit properly in our wiki?

 

[AppleLord]

And Yamamoto’s Bankai and Tousen’s Hado have EE and Mayuri claimed they couldn’t kill Aizen with anything in SS. Those are also points in favour for Aizen having resistance to EE.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that seems to be a valid point if you are correct about Yamamoto and Tousen.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

And is what he is doing truly existence erasure and not simply automatic absorption of the spiritual components that create the citizens of Soul Society?

Correct, EE is an ability Aizen has long since been accepted to have.

Also KillerNerd007 says he just needs to get home to his computer.

 

[KillerNerd007]

Correct, EE is an ability Aizen has long since been accepted to have.

Also KillerNerd007 says he just needs to get home to his computer.

I am home now, sorry for the late arrival.

 

[KillerNerd007]

Right now, editing Ichigo's new resistances that everyone here agrees on, then I will do Aizen's.

 

[KillerNerd007]

And is what he is doing truly existence erasure and not simply automatic absorption of the spiritual components that create the citizens of Soul Society?

Okay.

@KillerNerd007

Are you willing to help out here please?

Also, do you know all of the standard specifics for how to edit properly in our wiki?

I am sorry I couldn't help out earlier, today was a really busy day. What did you guys need help on exactly?

 

[KillerNerd007]

I suppose that seems to be a valid point if you are correct about Yamamoto and Tousen.

Hey yo dude. I edited the Ichigo and Aizen profiles, adding the new resistances that got accepted. Please tell me if there is something wrong, because I don't want the same mistake to happen like my first CRT. I am really tired right now, had a busy day.

 

[Damage3245]

And Yamamoto’s Bankai and Tousen’s Hado have EE and Mayuri claimed they couldn’t kill Aizen with anything in SS. Those are also points in favour for Aizen having resistance to EE.

I thought that was due to Aizen's godlike regeneration?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I thought that was due to Aizen's godlike regeneration?

These aren’t part of the EE resistance arguments, yeah

 

[Antvasima]

To recap the for side:

In Bleach if you are being subjected to reiatsu based hax, if your reiatsu isn’t far higher than the hax user, you will be affected by the hax. Additionally, we see several times in Bleach characters are subjected to their own reiatsu aura. Finally, Aizen’s reiatsu aura has EE. Combine all 3 and you have Aizen being subjected to EE hax, and since Aizen isn’t far stronger than himself, he’d be resisting it.

And is what he is doing truly existence erasure and not simply automatic absorption of the spiritual components that create the citizens of Soul Society?

Correct, EE is an ability Aizen has long since been accepted to have.

What do you think about this, @Damage3245 ?

 

[Damage3245]

Aizen having existence erasure as part of his Reiatsu when he reaches that level is accepted and fine by me.

That existence erasure effect automatically being applied to himself - and him having some unstated resistance to it - is based more on logical inference and assumptions instead of being something outright stated.

We don't always need direct statements for listing abilities on profiles, but in a case like this it does make them a lot less solid to me.

Perhaps we could preface it with a "Likely" as a compromise, since it's not confirmed but based on assumptions.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems to make sense to me. Thank you for the reply.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Perhaps we could preface it with a "Likely" as a compromise, since it's not confirmed but based on assumptions.

I think Likely EE Resistance is fine.

 

[Damage3245]

I think Likely EE Resistance is fine.

Okay.

Changes can go ahead, if they haven't been done already.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that should be fine.

 

[KillerNerd007]

Yes, that should be fine.

Alright, I gave the accepted upgrades.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Is there anything left to do here, or should we close this thread?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Pretty sure that concludes this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will lock this thread and the three profile pages then.