I/O Revisions Part 2 Battle Tendency

[KingPin0422]

I don't see proof of High 1-A much less Tier 0.

I mean... the Real World has an infinite hierarchy thanks to Marduk, and the Virtual World exists above that (hell if I know any hierarchies that exist there, though), and then the Imaginary World, where Sakuya and Mutsuki exist, is above that.

Honestly though, even something akin to a dimensional difference compared to baseline 1-A sounds like it's enough for High 1-A. The way High 1-A is currently defined is that it's for characters who are "so much higher than baseline 1-A characters that they cannot be estimated or comprehended from their perspectives", and that can be applied to literally any degree of qualitative transcendence, including something like the difference between 3-D space and 4-D space.

In my opinion, the notion that High 1-A needs to transcend baseline 1-A to the same degree that baseline 1-A transcends 11-C is very silly. As long as a character is qualitatively above baseline 1-A to any degree and has no characters/archetypes superior to them, High 1-A should be enough. Characters comparable to them and minor weaknesses do not invalidate High 1-A.

But like, I'd prefer not to debate the High 1-A conditions on an unrelated CRT such as this one.

(sorry for this off-topic post)

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

That's kinda wrong tho

The digital world is over lapped, not surpassing the physical world

That is also wrong, the difference between the 2 is more akin to the difference between a High Hyperversal+ being and line level being. 3-D and 4-D are not a qualitative difference tho

The issue is that a dimensional difference isn't qualitative, as it is just a quantitative difference of infinity. Its not the character being comparable that's an issue

 

[Wokistan]

High 1-A transcending regular 1-A to the same degree that regular 1-A transcends 11-C is actually a minimum. If that was all it needed, stuff like Cthulhu mythos would be full of high 1-A. To be high 1-A, one basically needs to be on the cusp of tier 0, minus some minor limitation. Most high 1-As would be tier 0s in full were it not for the existence of an equal being or a true tier 0.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I don't see proof of High 1-A much less Tier 0.

its more what should be changed. The status of the other 2 Gods of Cyberspace is a wholenother issue, much less the Divine Presence, but I was just saying that we know for sure that HE should be changed.

The divine presence is probably gonna need a thread of his own, since his status will also need a discussion of wiki policy as well. Along the same vein as both The Law of Identity, Demonbane Azathoth, and Kami Tenchi on the Majestic Presence's status as either a high 1-A, or tier 0.

 

[Phoenix821]

We also need to talk about the thing at the end, if that becomes High 1-A then the DP might be 0?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Yeah, maybe. But not sure tho

 

[Antvasima]

Wokistan is correct about High 1-A. Also, ALRF will revise Demonbane and DarkLK eventually revise Tenchi Muyo (based on the information in the many Japanese novels about the series). The Law of Identity on the other hand will probably be upgraded to tier 0 again.

 

[Phoenix821]

Demonbane revisions will be good when they happen.

 

[Hykuu]

" The Law of Identity on the other hand will probably be upgraded to tier 0 again." hell no.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that Matthew mentioned it and DarkLK agreed.

 

[Hykuu]

Made a thread about this.

 

[Antvasima]

It is much better to wait until Matthew has the time to prepare his revision. He also has the Elder Scrolls and Marvel Comics to worry about.

 

[Hykuu]

Matthew was planning on making a thread about this? huh

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, returning to I/O: Iapitus, can you summarise why the characters should be higher than High 1-B with linked scans, in a manner that is easy for Matthew to understand?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I would like to ask Matt what specifically about it he does not understand. Then we can work out any issues we have in a civil manor. I completely understand that I/O is very hard to understand; I actually read the final route 4 times before I understood it the way I do now

@Matthew Schroeder

For the 1-A final route characters, what is it that you do not get about them? Is it the qualitative difference between the Moon/Dilmun/The Meta World/etc., Them being beyond any sort of concept of time or space, or something else?

If the issue is the lack of percieved feats, then i can explain how these things are feats, if you would like. Combat feats, however, for the 1-A tiers don't really exist outside of Enlil trying to kill Nabu, but Nabu just reforming because the author seems to thing 1-A characters shouldn't even be able to fight.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't see proof of High 1-A much less Tier 0. I do see a 1-A realm but I want to know how the characters scale to it.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Oh, now I understand what the issue is. That's fair. I'll organise the scans I have and reposts/reformat the ones I already have to convey that they do scale. I totally forgot I had to prove that existing in it will scale to their abilities, since that isn't usually the case. I'll do that in a while, cuz I got a work call in about 2 minutes. Talk to you guys after

I haven't addressed any of the High 1-A or tier 0 stuff yet. The High 1-A thing will come from the question on if power differences are maintained when the entire verse jumps in power. The Tier 0 is gonna need a thread of his own most likely

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This sounds like extreme exaggeration.

 

[Hykuu]

"Sounds like."

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Would you mind explaining how? i don't believe I have actually given scans nor started the discussion nor even given official reasons why or why not they would be at High 1-A, or just 1-A. The reasons also come from some feats in their lower forms, on possible power differences anyway, so the high 1-A discussion will have to come after that anyway

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Imma wait for a response before I organise stuff

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

i don't believe I have actually given scans nor started the discussion nor even given official reasons why or why not they would be at High 1-A, or just 1-A.

That is precisely why it sounds like exaggeration. You haven't given any proof nor explained why, yet keep claiming they are 1-A. That's Matthew's position which I'm starting to share.

 

[Wokistan]

Ok. Why don't we give Lap time to post everything at once, 1-A stuff, high 1-A stuff, all that jazz, then we can look at stuff once everything is on the table. As is, we keep segueing to areas that he is not trying to focus on at the current time, and as such I feel that it would be a better idea to just put everything out there, so it can all be discussed.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

That has been asked since the first thread, lol. But indeed. I'm even intrigued at this point.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

That is precisely why it sounds like exaggeration. You haven't given any proof nor explained why, yet keep claiming they are 1-A. That's Matthew's position which I'm starting to share.

No, I gave scans for 1-A. I was talking about the High 1-A thing. He said "sounds exagerated" when I actually have not moved on to these things. We were discussing the 1-A thing, I mention off handedly what the factors for them being High 1-A may be, and that it isn't actually established that they are High 1-A at all.

It was just an off handed mention, with 1 potential reason that I had not even claimed proved it.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Ok. Why don't we give Lap time to post everything at once, 1-A stuff, high 1-A stuff, all that jazz, then we can look at stuff once everything is on the table. As is, we keep segueing to areas that he is not trying to focus on at the current time, and as such I feel that it would be a better idea to just put everything out there, so it can all be discussed.

mostly because it is too chaotic, and also because what one rating is will influence another. A lot of the stuff like them being High 1-A vs just a high degree of 1-A will be contingent on the level of The Majestic Presence, which will need a thread of his own because his status is bigger than just I/O, and has a lot to do with wiki policy as a whole. We can't even properly discuss the potential High 1-As without first establishing the tiers of the other characters, as well.

Putting it all on the table at once gets the 8 paragraph arguments on 5 different points at once that we had in the first 2 threads, that are incredibly hard to follow and end up getting a lot of points missed or outright ignored. Another thing that kept happening was that people kept thinking that the arguments for High Hyperversal were the arguments for Outerversal and vice versa, or the people thinking that the arguments for infinite multiverses on a single layer were justifications for the infinitely layered multiverse, which this can bypass.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Anyway, simply existing in the Meta World/Dilmun/The Moon/etc. gives you a 1-A status.

• The characters who exist there, are beyond all the possibilities of the previous routes, even the potentially Hyperversal and High Hyperversal parts. Nabu implies they are completely superior to these, and can easily replace each on a whim. To the entire cast, space and time are now meaningless. They are also linked to the void itself in a sense, andare just pure informatio.
• Also, by the wording, the characters were technically always there, and all the stuff they experienced were just possibilities. The High selves were there from the start chronologically, if you can even call it that. Technically speaking, they are not only outside of everything, but between everything as well
• Also, this is a general thing for the composite hierarchy. To be in a higher layer, is to be on that level of power. Traversal is power in this kind of hierarchy. This is no different for The Moon either

@Matthew

is that good enough, or is there more you would like to see.

 

[Gap-Huraira]

In Some Ways




Divine Presence Exists or Might not

 

[Gap-Huraira]

Anyway, simply existing in the Meta World/Dilmun/The Moon/etc. gives you a 1-A status.

• The characters who exist there, are beyond all the possibilities of the previous routes, even the potentially Hyperversal and High Hyperversal parts. Nabu implies they are completely superior to these, and can easily replace each on a whim. To the entire cast, space and time are now meaningless. They are also linked to the void itself in a sense, andare just pure informatio.
• Also, by the wording, the characters were technically always there, and all the stuff they experienced were just possibilities. The High selves were there from the start chronologically, if you can even call it that. Technically speaking, they are not only outside of everything, but between everything as well
• Also, this is a general thing for the composite hierarchy. To be in a higher layer, is to be on that level of power. Traversal is power in this kind of hierarchy. This is no different for The Moon either

@Matthew

is that good enough, or is there more you would like to see.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

It most certainly does. Nabu implies that all this was meerly him dancing in the palm of an even greater being. I'll post the scans about the hundredth monkey pointing towards God in the morning once i am on a computer. But if you are saying he is beyond existence, and non existence. Well maybe, but that is to be discussed later. It does seem to lack any concept or self

Good night everyone

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Anyway, MP is very much an abstract more than a convensional character, still, we should stay back from it until later

Here is the stuff about the Hundredth Monkey pointing towards God, and the narator talking about a force beyond even the Gods of Cyberspace; the Majestic Presence.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

bump

 

[Phoenix821]

So that means the MP is above everything so does that makes it High 1-A.?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Can we talk about that after we see if Matt agrees on if the characters scale due to being in the void?

 

[Phoenix821]

Alright.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Bump. Because our I/O's profiles are pretty bad and need to be revised

 

[Gap-Huraira]

@Lapitus What About "Artifical Intelligences"

Which was Explained By Mitsuhko and Yumi's Father

 

[Hykuu]

" Mitsuhki ".

 

[Gap-Huraira]

Fixed Spelling Mistake

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, simply existing in the Meta World/Dilmun/The Moon/etc. gives you a 1-A status.

What do you think Matthew?