Hyperdimension Neptunia revisions

[Lasatar]

Having recently finished all Hyperdimension Neptunia has to offer in terms of canon content (that is, the main series of games), I've been looking through the profiles this wiki has, and have noticed some inconsistencies. There could potentially be massive upgrades, should certain feats be taken into account. Right now, I will go through all the existing profiles, and state the feats and powerscaling.


First up, comes the main character, Neptune. So far, Neptune's base form doesn't have any notable feats, so I'll mostly ignore it, because I only really have an idea of her Durability. Other than that, Neptune has three different forms; Purple Heart, Next Purple, and Adult Neptune (who is the Neptune from another dimension, and isn't a CPU). So far, we know that Neptune is individually the strongest out of the original four CPUs, but is not too far ahead of them. This means that whatever Neptune scales to, Noire, Blanc, and Vert will also scale. As the game uses dialouge-based cutscenes, Neptune has to be scaled to the most powerful enemy she has defeated. The most powerful enemy Neptune has defeated as Purple Heart has been Rei Ryghts. She did this with the help of all the other CPUs, but as we all know, the gap between some of the higher tiers is much greater than 4-8 times the amount. I'll get around to the statistics once I talk about Rei. Purple Heart has also been shown to be able to take down the True Deity of Sin Arfoire several times. Next up, comes Next Purple, who isn't currently listed on this Wiki (along with anything from the most recent game). Next Purple has shown to be able to cut through the fabric of reality, which leads to some Reality Warping abilities. She also was shown to cut off some of the negative energy powering the potentially universe level Kurome Ankokuboshi (who I'll get to in due time), and subsequently defeat her. As for Adult Neptune, she's able to very easily overpower the Deity of Sin Arfoire, and only struggles against True Deity of Sin Arfoire. And with the help of normal Neptune (as Purple Heart), Nepgear (as Purple Sister), and Uzume Tennouboshi (as Orange Heart), able to take down Arfoire with some of Rei Ryght's power.

Whew, that was a long paragraph, but it was mostly explaining the reasoning for the powerscaling. The actual statistics are yet to come. As I said earlier, Noire, Blanc, and Vert scale to everything Neptune scales to, just not quite as much. Nepgear and the other CPU candidates also scale to each other, and they are shown to be able to defeat the True Deity of Sin Arfoire, with moderate difficulty, and help from the other CPUs (well, Conquest ending Nepgear can take it on solo, and also effortlessly, but I won't get into that). For IF and Compa, they can scale to the base forms of the CPUs, but otherwise, they don't have anything else going for them.

Plutia and Peashy are two CPUs from another in-game universe, called Ultradimension. Iris Heart is shown to be more than capable of defeating any form of Arfoire that pops up, while Peashy as Yellow Heart is stronger than all the other regular CPUs combined, when infused with a certain device, but is usually only the same strength, when not. Both of them help out in defeating Rei Ryghts, signifying more scaling.

Now for Rei Ryghts. This requires explaination about the different universes in the series. We have the Superdimension (from the first game and its remake, which is non-canon to the other games), the Hyperdimension (from all the other main series games), the Ultradimension (from the third game and its remake. Neptune gets sent here by accident), the Zero Dimension (from the most recent game, and is Uzume's dimension), and the Heart Dimension, which is the physical manifestation of Kurome/Uzume's mind. That's a lot of dimensions, and if my hunch is correct, each count as universe level. When it comes to Rei Ryghts, she has shown to be more than capable of destroying a whole dimension, or more. In fact, she nearly destroys Ultradimension during the course of the third game, but is stopped by the CPUs before this can happen. This begs the question; is this one of those "high AP, low Dura" cases? Or is it a "high AP" case full stop? Regardless, she seems to be capable of destroying dimensions. I'll let an expert decide on this one.

As for Arfoire, it's shown that she has many forms. There's base form, Dragon form, Deity of Sin Arfoire, and True Deity of Sin Arfoire. Base and dragon don't show too many feats, other than scaling to the early-game CPUs, but DOS and TDOS are shown to be able to destroy entire landmasses, or even the whole of Gamindustri itself.

I think that all this by itself doesn't really say anything, which means we have to rely on stuff from the newest game in the series. Let me introduce you to Kurome Ankokuboshi (that isn't her real name BTW, she's just called that by Neptune), who is the original form of Uzume Tennouboshi. Kurome is physically and mentally tied to the Heart Dimension; if it gets destroyed, she dies. However, she is only able to physically manifest a form in the Zero and Heart Dimensions. However, she is able to move the location of dimensions in multi-dimensional space, merging dimensions together. I don't know what that would be calculated as, but this isn't just lore; it happened in-game. She is also unkillable without the destruction of Heart Dimension - she will simply regenerate as an incarnate of hatred. She is also more than capable of summoning an endless supply of clone minions, with power equal to that of the originals. These clones include the HDD forms of all four original CPUs, and the True Deity of Sin Arfoire. The ones that finally defeated her were the original four CPUs, along with Uzume Tennouboshi, who is technically a fragment of the same person.

There's not much else to say here, so I'll let the experts decide what to make of this.

 

[Notadeadguy]

-Honestly just because you can slice reality doesn't mean you can destroy a universe, though I have to agree for some points about it. After all, destroying an being tied to a universe would mean finding a way to harm the world itself.

-As for Rei, We weren't talking about dimensions as the only things that exist in the dimensions are Celestia and the Four Continents. Because of that, it can't exactly be an entire dimension considering the actual size. I mean what else is there to destroy other than the four continents I mentioned anyway? Air?

If I put it like that can they truly be Dimensional level feats you claim? It's small compared to the size of other universe.Perhaps Pocket Dimensions as you might say.

That and you need to show visible feats for this to work. After all, actions speak louder than words. So just because you claim something, it's going to be difficult without evidence.

 

[Lasatar]

I'm pretty sure you're looking at Superdimension stuff, where Gamindustri is comprised of floating islands, and nothing more. But if the other dimensions were only comprised of the nations, wouldn't you threoretically reach the edge if you travelled far enough? None of the games have ever shown any evidence of there not being anything beyond the lands. When Neptune first goes to Ultradimension, Noire and Plutia speculate that she came from a continent beyond the ocean, indicating that Gamindustri is indeed on a Planet, likely the size of earth, too. If it was only a planet, it would still be planet level, but you can see on many occasions throughout the games that there are indeed stars in the sky, indicating at least an entire galaxy out there. This is seen in both Hyperdimension and Ultradimension. Zero Dimension has evidence of being a parallel to Hyperdimension after it falls into ruin and decay, so it is likely the same size as well. Kurome was able to move the Zero Dimension within interdimensional space, which sounds like a pretty big feat, if you ask me.

As for when it comes to Pocket dimensions, they are confirmed to exist. They are called the Sharing Fields, which Uzume is able to create in order to fight the Dark CPUs. These Sharing Fields are temporary and will disappear after a short while, which means that the main dimensions would eventually disappear as well, should they be pocket dimensions as well.

 

[Notadeadguy]

I honestly thought that ocean part was funny considering that the continent's are giant Floating Landmasses.

Though that's me questioning the Noire and Plutia's choice of words. I was honestly confused when they said that.

Honestly though, I know there are some flaws but that just happens.

Though like I said, There were no notable feats in the game so I was forced to rely on similar sources. I honestly agree that the next-gen forms are more powerful and there are some adjustments but I can only tell you so much. I didn't get the latest hyperdimension game so my knowledge is limited.


I am only do so much so If you want to question further ask OwariNepgear.

 

[Lasatar]

The "Floating Landmasses", as I've said before, are only in Superdimension, which is actually a non-canon dimension. Hyperdimension actually has an ocean, which you can clearly see from the map screen. Still, in any case, a lot of my arguments require the reader to have knowledge of VII, since we get quite a lot of feats, and while Rei doesn't appear in it, there's something that Rei definitely scales to.

 

[Notadeadguy]

You know I could never understand why they removed the flying landmass part.

I own the original first Hyperdimension Neptunia game so I can say for certain that they were flying chunks of land.

Though I still don't understand why they removed that in later games

 

[Lasatar]

Because it's set in a different dimension. The first game is set in Superdimension, and the later games are set in Hyperdimension. The first game is non-canon to the other games.

 

[Notadeadguy]

Oh, I was wondering about that. Though I still find it kinda silly making the first ever game Noncanon. Oh well.

I admit I lost that argument. That was fun.


Anyway

Seriously how many dimensions are there?

We have the Superdimension, Hyperdimension, The 80's Dimension with Peashy and Plutia, the Megadimension, the One with Noire as the main character, the one where they becom idols, the one where they are schoolgirls.

I mean seriously, you expand upon dimensions yet you don't show what the rest of the main world looks like? Seriously, wtf?

Am I right?

 

[Lasatar]

You forgot the Zero Dimension and the Heart Dimension from the most recent game. So far, Heart Dimension is the closest we've got to seeing what the whole dimension looks like - at its centre lies a fragmented Share Crystal (which is practically Kurome's heart), and the entire rest of the dimension is randomly created from the dreams and memories of all who enter.

That "80's dimension" is actually called the Ultradimension, and there is no Megadimension; that's just the name of the game.

So far, we have had several feats concerning the entirety of one or more dimensions; Rei Ryghts destroying Ultradimension, Arfoire with Rei's power destroying Zero Dimension (good job Croire), Kurome shifting the position of Zero Dimension to fuse with Hyperdimension. There's a lot of shenanigans like that.

 

[Notadeadguy]

Technically Rei needed a LOT of time in order to Destroy the Ultradimension and they managed to stop it so there's at least prep time required

 

[Lasatar]

As far as I know, that shouldn't account for the creation of a new key. Simply list that under her Weaknesses section, if you ask me.

 

[Notadeadguy]

Stuff with prep time usually is given a key, that's why she has that 6-A or higher stat.

It's so true of one of the fundamental rules. Heck I did that when I created the Zim Page becaus etaht's what type of damage he's capable of.

Get my point?

 

[Lasatar]

K, I've got it. But still, what tier would it actually fall at? As for defeating Kurome, who's tied to the Heart Dimension, what level of AP would be required to make that happen?

 

[Notadeadguy]

Like I said, I haven't bought the latest game si my knowledge is limited

 

[Lasatar]

I only finished it about a week ago, myself. It has quite a lot of feats, so you'd probably do well to look over it when it comes to this topic.

 

[Notadeadguy]

Well I guess that means I have nothing to contribute at the moment,

Talk to ya again when I do.

 

[Lasatar]

Just watch a let's play. If you skim past the gameplay, you should get it done in under a week.

 

[Notadeadguy]

^This is one of the series I don't mind playing the entirety of. thus is my feelings speaking but I want to savor it myself than watch someone else do it for me. It just feels right.

 

[Lasatar]

Well, just make sure you get the true ending, instead of the other two (especially the horrifying bad ending).

 

[OwariNepgear]

Am i too late here? I'm the one who made most of Neptunia's pages.

I haven't played third game (bought, but not enough time...). So excuse me for not making any of Kurome, Suzume, etc...

And, i actually can't think about Gamindustri as a universe but a small dimension, just like Touhou's Gensoukyo. And there's no feat showing how big their world is so for the best safety, "Possibly Continent level, likely higher depend on how big Gamindustri is" is my conclusion. Unless Idea Factory claimed that Gamindustri is as big as the earth or 1 dimension = 1 universe, i don't think any mod would agree for Rei's upgrade.

And, with those feats above, how do you want to change their tiers?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that OwariNepgear seems to make sense.

 

[Lasatar]

Most of the powerscaling for the Next forms, along with Uzume, should come from beating Kurome. We know that Kurome can only be defeated through the destruction of Heart Dimension, which was what happened in both the Good and True endings. We can also powerscale Rei to one of the feats from the most recent game, because Croire gives some (not all) of Rei's power to Arfoire, and Arfoire supposedly gains enough power to destroy Zero Dimension, but she is stopped by Neptune and Nepgear. Since Croire is in possession of most of Rei's power, Croire herself should scale to this. This means that Adult Neptune is actually quite powerful, to be able to seal Croire inside the Nep-Note.

Now, even if Idea Factory hasn't stated how big Gamindustri is, it should still be possible to work out, because you are able to jump in the games. We know that Neptune is 146cm tall while in base form, so it should be possible to measure the force of gravity for Gamindustri, by working out the acceleration she falls after jumping. This can also help us work out base Neptune's durability, as she has fallen from the sky several times, and for a long time as well. I'm not the best at working this out, so one of the calc group will have to solve this.

Also, as I've said before, both Hyperdimension and Ultradimension have stars in the night sky, indicating that there is likely at least a whole galaxy making up each dimension.

So, now I'll go through the characters one by one:


Neptune: Defeated Kurome, Rei Ryghts, and every form of Arfoire.

Noire, Blanc, Vert, Plutia, and Peashy: Comparable to Neptune.

Nepgear: Defeated TDOS Arfoire. Defeated Neptune and the other CPUs when they were brainwashed by Kurome. Far more powerful with Cursed Sword.

Uni, Rom, and Ram: Comparable to non-cursed sword Nepgear.

IF and Compa: Comparable to the base forms of any CPU.

Rei Ryghts: Capable of destroying Ultradimension.

Croire: Possesses most of Rei's power.

Arfoire: DOS and TDOS are capable of destroying some of Gamindustri's landmasses. Later on gets some of Rei's power, and almost destroys Zero Dimension.

Uzume: Defeated Kurome.

Kurome: Shifted the position of Zero Dimension in multi-dimensional space. Physically tied to Heart Dimension, and cannot die without its destruction.


That should explain most of the powerscaling. Now, we need a calc for how big Gamindustri is. As explained earlier, we can do it by measuring the force of gravity, when compared to Neptune's height of 146cm.

 

[OwariNepgear]

In case (i said, in case only) Gamindustri has the same gravity as the earth:

Energy of a fall = mgh.

Earth's Gravity: g = 9.8m/s^2 (roughly 100-120km).

Neptune fall from Celestial to Planeptune, Compa saw her fall as a shooting star so it's around 100~120km according to earth's atmo (though Histoire stated that rainbows are the bridge of Celestial, and rainbow is only 20~30km from the ground).

So, if we use Neptune's weight (38kg) and the maximum possible altitude (120km) with earth's gravity (9.8m/s^2), we will have 44688000J (around 45MJ if we round up) and it's Room level for Neptune's base form's durability.

p/s: Touhou's Gensokyo can see the stars in the night sky normally just so you know.

 

[Antvasima]

We generally need some form of proof for the stars in the background of pocket realities being real, rather than decorative illusions, especially if this would cause an enormous tier jump that severely contradicts all other feats.

Alternately, we could give them a separate "At least 3-C via hax (Maintains her own pocket universe with stars in the background)" tier, along with the regular ones.

 

[Lasatar]

I know nothing about Touhou Project, so I don't know what to say about your point, but I don't know if there's anything that either proves or disproves the legitimacy of the stars in the background in this case. Even so, if it seems like an outlier, I have no objections to it being one. Even so, assuming that Hyperdimension's, Ultradimension's, and Zero Dimension's Gamindustri (not Superdimension's) has the same gravity as Earth, therefore likely being the same size as the Earth, it still leads to at least Planet level, with some of the dimension destroying feats.

Heart Dimension is harder to get a grip on how big it is, because it simply seems to randomly generate according to the dreams and thoughts of its inhabitants, and is also crumbling away in some places, but the gravity of the explorable areas is exactly the same as the other dimensions in the game, making me believe that it is just as large, if not larger (because it isn't one large planet, but rather a series of large crumbling platforms), than the other dimensions.


If there's no legitimacy of the stars, I propose that it be made clear that all dimensions except for Superdimension contain a Gamindustri located on a planet the size of earth, as there is nothing that states otherwise. This simply translates to "At least Planet level". Rei Ryghts is already listed as "At least Continent level, likely higher", so it isn't that much of an upgrade. This doesn't seem to account for Durability, however, and so the regular HDD forms of the CPUs will need to scale to True Deity of Sin Arfoire, whom became one with the Gamindustri Graveyard, which is just as big as the other nations, indicating either Country or Continent level. The Next Forms, however, do scale to these dimension feats, due to defeating Kurome.


Does this make sense?

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose so, although I am not the best person to ask. It depends on what OwariNepgear thinks.

 

[OwariNepgear]

You got the wrong idea about that earth size. In Neptune's profile, her base form Dura and AP are Room level because i do the same calculation as above with Earth's condition. But, Histoire stated rainbows are Celestial's bridge and rainbow is only 20~30km from the ground (Earth). A fall from 20~30km can't make something burn and look like a shooting star like Neptune's fall which mean Gamindustri isn't Earth at all but since there's no information about Gamindustri, i have to use Earth's condition to calc Neptune's Dura.

And, i actually don't think about Gamindustri as a planet but a pocket dimension with only 1 continent seperated to 4 by True God (4 goddesses's mother). And because you don't know anything about Touhou, i have to tell you this: Gensokyo is a copy of a part of Japan sealed into another dimension by Hakurei's Great Barrier. So Gensokyo is more or less a pocket dimension with nothing but Gensokyo. Though it's VERY strange because Reimu flew to the space to come to true moon means Gensokyo must be a planet. Yet, due to the fact about how Gensokyo was made, even the strongest Youkai in Gensokyo can't reach Planet level.

About nations, it's kinda strange because each of them called their land as a nation, yet Planeptune's full name is Planeptune the CITY of Purple Progress and their size is only as big as a mountain in world map (not sure if it's as big as Earth's mountain) so can't exactly tell how big their nation is. DOS Arfoire is not that big, you can see her size in battle. She absorbed Gamindustri's Graveyard to increase her power, not her size, like how Goku makes a Spirit Bomb. The fact that Gamindustri's Graveyard is still there means she only absorb its power, not its materials.

Indeed, if we scale to Earth, they will get some upgrade but since there's no way to tell, i can't give you a correct answer. And you can edit those pages to add Zero Dimension's feat or you can make Kurome/Uzume.

 

[Lasatar]

As I've said before, we are not using anything from Superdimension. You keep using arguments that only support evidence seen from the first game, which is non-canon to the other games in the series. Hyperdimension's Gamindustri is indeed on a larger planet, and not made up of floating landmasses, like Superdimension's is.

Will you accept that HYPERdimension and ULTRAdimension indeed have a planet the size of Earth, and that SUPERdimension is irrelevant to the discussion? If you don't, we can't continue.

Now, you measured the feat of Neptune falling from Celestia. That's Superdimension stuff. The thing that should be measured is when Neptune got sent to Ultradimension, and fell from the sky there. She was shown to be falling for at least half a minute, even if you speed through the text-boxes, which is more than enough time to reach terminal velocity.

In any case, if we're done with sky-falling stuff, should we count Hyperdimension and Ultradimension as Earth-sized? Without that, we can't continue. Remember that this will only scale to the Next Forms, Uzume, Kurome, and Rei's AP. Otherwise, TDOS Arfoire is the thing to scale from.


Moving on, I wasn't talking about DOS Arfoire when it came to the Gamindustri Graveyard. I was talking about TDOS Arfoire. After defeating DOS Arfoire, they explained how she took over the Gamindustri Graveyard and effectively became one with it. In the dialouge scene before that fight, it was explained that she compressed all the power in the Gamindustri Graveyard into a relatively small body, and that's why you can fight it normally. Does that make sense?

 

[OwariNepgear]

Did i say something about floating island or something? I'm talking about Hyperdimension (Sister Generation)'s map. And True God is a feat from any of Neptunia's franchise. As you can see, in Conquest end, Nepgear became True God by slaying all of other goddess and obtain 100% share energy. You still can't see ANYTHING out from Gamindustri's map. Well, they do have sea, but who know if there's anything outside that sea.

I repeat, right now i'm talking about Sister Generation. It's a continent with 4 nations and Gamindustri's Graveyard (and some dungeons). And in Ultradimension, as you said above, Histoire stated that "they came from oversea". This may lead to Ultradimension and Hyperdimension are actually 2 continents in 1 planet which will also deny the feat about Rei's.

If you want, i won't use anything about Superdimension. I can calculate from Neptune's falling from Ultradimension's feat for you.

Only in case Gamindustri have the same gravity as the Earth (even if they do, if they're just a pocket dimension without anything except sea and Gamindustri like Sister Gen's map, it can be fake gravity):

g=9.8m/s^2.

she fall half a minute-> t=30s.

s=1/2gt^2 = 4410m.

Energy of the fall = mgh = 38 (Nep's weight) x 9.8 x 4410 = 1642284J ~ 1.6MJ and this is Wall level. This will lead to Neptune's base form downgrade if you want to use this feat.

You want to convince me that Gamindustri is in a planet as big as the earth, yet you aren't looking for feats of their actual size. And most of their profile, i stated "at least" because i only use scaling w/o any calc (can't calc). Please keep calm and find feats about their size, angry won't get you anywhere. I'm not objecting Gamindustri's size, i just want anything to be sure for safety. The one who made Neptune's page is Notadeadguy and the others were scaled with her (he used feat from anime) so yes, your angry is understandable.

Just so you know, i'm Nepgear's fan and my favorite part is Sister Generation. I haven't played any part after that point because of studying (Watch some let's play for Rei, Plutia and Pleashy's feats). So your knowledge is good for this wiki if you have enough evidence. I won't talk about Zero Dimension stuff anymore, you can make your own edits and pages for Zero Dimension due to my lack of knowledge.

About Arfoire, i know that already, but just like i said, Gamindustri's Graveyard was still there mean she only absorb its power, not everything. You absorbed all power of a City doesn't mean you have AP and Dura of a City, just like Arfoire's feat.

 

[Lasatar]

Histoire suggested the possibility of Neptune coming from overseas, but then stated that it was more likely to be another dimension, which was then confirmed about an hour of gameplay later. If it was on the same planet, or even the same dimension, I seriously doubt that (A) Neptune wouldn't have been able to transform, (B) There would be two versions of each character and location, or (C) The process of becoming a CPU would be different.

I don't remember stating anything about any True God feats; I'm not sure where you got that from, and I won't argue about it because it's irrelevant.

Anyway, if we keep speculating on whether or not it's set on a planet or a galaxy or a universe or whatever, we'll get nowhere, because there's no supporting feats either proving or disproving. Even if it's completely debunked, characters such as Neptune and the others should still scale to characters like Arfoire and Rei as they are now.

As for Kurome and the Next forms, are there any objections to listing them as "At least 5-B"? Or should it be more like 5-C or high 6-A? Kurome is undoubtably the most powerful character in the series as of yet, and with the Next forms scaling to her, there should be a decent upgrade regardless. If you agree to this, I won't change any of the other profiles until we have a better grasp on the feats.

One more thing: (off-topic), I'm sorry if I come across as rude or angry; it's unintentional. I just try to get to the point quickly.

 

[OwariNepgear]

You need true information for a character's upgrade to be allowed by mods, and so you can dealing with someone who don't agree with your upgrade in the future. So until you got more information, yes let it be is the best choice.

About Kurome, you should ask some other mod about her. I can't define her tier, AP or Dura.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, my attention is too split up between lots of different tasks to be able to analyse this properly.

 

[Lasatar]

Any suggestions about who I should ask?

 

[OwariNepgear]

Well, normally, i'll make a new thread to ask about this so sorry, i can't help about this xD

 

[Antvasima]

I have highlighted this thread again. Hopefully somebody appropriate will be interested.

 

[Lasatar]

Well, until that happens, is it alright if I go ahead and make Kurome and the Next forms, and just list them as the same statistics as what the current top-tier is (Rei, being "at least continent level"), and also add Reality Warping to Neptune's abilities? We can look at upgrades later, when I have found more evidence.

 

[ThePerpetual]

I don't really know much about the series, but as far as I'm able to understand, these supposed dimensions/worlds/universes/what-have-you are all created within the fabric of a game. As a result, I'm pretty skeptical of assuming them to all be Universe-sized off the bat.

It works in, say, StarOcean, because you actually get to see the depths of space constantly and it's repeatedly made clear that the "artificial" universe in analogous to the one we know in real life. From the looks of this thread, no evidence points to them being connected to our own real world in such a way, so... a bit more evidence on that bit?

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with ThePerpetual.

 

[Lasatar]

Well, as the series uses text-box dialogue cutscenes rather than actual cutscenes, it's extremely difficult to get a grasp on some of the things in the world - including the size. This makes it hard for us to continue. Until I can locate some more evidence, shall we simply list the Next forms and Kurome as the same tier as Rei Ryghts (prep time)? While changing nothing else?

 

[Antvasima]

What tier would that be?