Hunter x Hunter Overhaul V2 - Part 1: Speed

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Introduction​

Here I am once again trying to change Hunter x Hunter ratings. If you where here for my last several threads that either died or got rejected you'll probably noticed that I've had a change of heart for the verse as a whole. Basically after reading and looking through the material as a whole several, several times I've come to the conclusion that the profiles and ratings on this site are both horribly wanked as well as badly made and formatted. As such I've done a sizable amount of research into every aspect of the verse in order to remake the verse as a whole. This is going to be a long process (Made harder by the fact that I'm basically the only person working on this ATM) that will most certainly take multiple CRT's and months of time to complete. As such I've decided to break the process into multiple CRT's starting with what I believe to be the most concerning and wrong tier, speed.​

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Problems with Current Calc's​

​

Netero Attacks Pitou​

The original calc assumes that Netero and Zeno cross Pitou's 2 km En in the .96 seconds stated at the end of the next chapter.
This is wrong for a few reasons, the first being that the timer used for that .96 second timeframe doesn't even start until after Netero comes into contact with Pitou's En and travels downwards quite a bit.
The other reason is that at the time of the .96 second statement the falling dragons haven't even reached the dome where Pitou had been
Thus the speed found used for the calc is invalid and can't be used
Damage agrees with me on this as well
​

Neferpitou Blitz​

This one is wrong in part because the distance used is incorrect, we find out in a later panel that Kite came in contact with Pitou's En which extends to a maximum of 2 kilometers, which is different from the ang-sized distance in the calc. The supposed "Blitz" also happens when Kite's back is turned which makes it more of a surprise attack than a true "Blitz" as well as an assumption that he didn't notice her movement. Killua corroborates this sentiment as he says that if they weren't there then he wouldn't have lost his arm. This also wouldn't make sense because if Pitou was capable of blitzing Kite from the start since they later have a battle in which Kite is able to scratch her cheek. Pitou later thinks so highly of this battle that she develops an entire Nen ability solely to bring him back to life in order to fight him again, which wouldn't make sense if she was capable of blitzing him.
Then what about Gon and Killua? Weren't they blitzed? No, Gon and Killua weren't blitzed, at least not from that distance. Gon and Killua never come in contact with the Pitou's En otherwise they wouldn't have asked Kite what he was talking about when he came in contact with Pitou's aura. This leads to them both being surprised when Pitou comes shooting by ripping Kite's arm off. Well didn't they come in contact with Pitou's aura while she was mid jump? It's a possibility but we have heavy evidence suggesting otherwise. Pitou turns off her En whenever she goes into battle mode and as we've seen based on her developing an ability just to fight Kite again that she sees him as a worthy enough opponent. Killua also specifically recalls the first moment he encountered Pitou's aura was when she had already passed Kite and them, which wouldn't have been the case had they encountered Pitou's En which is just Ren expanded.
All this leads me to believe that this calc should just be scrapped entirely.

​

Killua Moves in Tandem with his Lightning​

I don't know if I'm missing some context or something but this should never have been accepted.
We see before Killua uses the ability and we see the result, we never see the in-between.
Assuming he completed his arc before the lightning hit the ground is frankly a baseless claim we have no way of proving.
Even if you make the argument that the lightning is still visible when he finishes his arc and because of that it had to happen in a similar timeframe, that would also be wrong.
Lightning in real life lingers for and average of .5 seconds which is plenty of time for Killua to complete his arc.
As such it should be invalid.
​

Hisoka Dodges an Explosion​

Hisoka explicitly does not dodge this explosion, he gets his leg blown off from it.
He indirectly confirms this again in a later panel saying he was propelled to the other side of the ring by the explosion.
He does actually dodge an explosion in this fight though, just not this one.
​

Gon Blitzes a Pro Hunter​

Don't need to say anything on this one really as even the comments on the calc itself point it out but we no longer use the 1/220th of a second perception speed for calcs anymore and as such this is invalid.
​

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New Calculations​

Replacing the old calculation I hopefully just debunked is a whole slew of newer calculation made by yours truly to make up the backbone of the new scaling chain.
​

Supporting Calculations​

1. Killua Dodges a Flea - 190 m/s with Mach 6.23 Reactions
2. Pitou Jumps to the King - Mach 6.28
3. Netero Hits Pitou - Mach 84.79
​

Main Calculations​

1. Tocino Reacts to Franklin's Nen Bullets - 205 m/s​

2. Goreinu reacts to Razor's Dodgeball - Mach 2.76
3. Uvogin Catches a Bullet with his Teeth - Mach 7.84
4. Hisoka (Actually) Reacts to an Explosion - Mach 9.58 with Mach 31.18 Reactions
5. Cheetu Bullet Times - Mach 20.18
6. Godspeed Killua Reacts to a Dart - 331 m/s with Mach 53.54 Reactions
7. Netero and Meruem's Hundreds of Thousands of Attacks - Mach 154.6
​

Scrapped or Outdated Calculations​

These are calculations I made before the whole crackdown of so called "Hidden calcs" and as such use subsonic reactions to get the result.
I'm just putting them here in case any of them are deemed valid by chance plus they're fun to look at.​

1. Hanzo Blitzes Gon - 141 m/s​

2. Gon Blitzes a Pro Hunter - 260 m/s​

3. Kite Blitzes a Chimera Ant Squadron - Mach 9.56​

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Speed Tier Scaling​

Here will be the scaling for every relevant character in the verse. Tiers are subject to change for the purpose of this CRT and are in no way final.

For a full breakdown of every characters scaling (Minus a few useless profiles) plus references for damn near every justification see my Speed Scaling Sandbox​

- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Shmeatywerbenmanjenson/HxH_Speed_Scaling -​

God Tiers​

Top God-Tiers: Massively Hypersonic (Mach 154)​

The fastest characters in the series such as Netero and Meruem scale to their own feat

Who scales: Meruem, Post-Rose Meruem, Netero, Adult Gon​

God Tiers: High Hypersonic (Mach 31.18) with High Hypersonic+ (Mach 53.54) reactions​

The slower god tiers scale below, equal to, or above Godspeed Killua blitzing Youpi and Killua's own reactions in that form

Who Scales: Godspeed Killua, Corpse Puppet Pitou​

Top Tiers​

Pitou Tier: Hypersonic+(Mach 20.16) with High Hypersonic+ (Mach 84.79) reactions​

Pitou sits in her own tier due to being able to perceive Netero's attacks through her perception manipulation, this wouldn't scale to other guards as we have no indication if this ability is innate to Pitou's catlike chimera abilities or Nen abilities or is the same for every Royal Guard+

Who Scales: Neferpitou​

High Top-Tiers: Hypersonic+ (Mach 20.16) with High Hypersonic (Mach 31.18) reactions​

The fastest top tiers scale to or above Cheetu's casual feat as well as to Hisoka's reactions

Who Scales: Cheetu, Menthuthuyoupi, Shiapouf​

Top-Tiers: Hypersonic+ (Mach 10) with High Hypersonic (Mach 31.18) reactions​

The slower top tiers upscale from Hisoka's casual feat as well as scale to his own reactions

Who Scales: Hisoka, Chrollo, Zeno, Silva, Ging, Illumi​

Mid Tiers​

High Mid-Tiers: Hypersonic (Mach 7.84) with Hypersonic+ (Mach 20.16) reactions​

The fastest mid tiers scale to, below or above Uvogin's casual feat as well as scale to Knuckle and Morel's reactions

Who Scales: True Form Biscuit, Razor, Uvogin, Morel, Knuckle, Biscuit, Shoot, Knov, Kite, CA Gon, CA Killua, Machi, Feitan, Phinks, Franklin, Nobunaga, Bonolenov, Pakunoda, Shizuku, Cheadle, Gotoh, Tsubone, Leol, Mizaistom, CA Palm, Pariston, Saiyu, Zazan​

Mid-Tier: Hypersonic (Mach 5)​

The mid tiers downscale to baseline due to being far inferior to the rest of the troupe

Who Scales: Kalluto, Kortopi​

Low Mid-Tiers: Supersonic+ (Mach 2.76)​

The lowest mid tiers scale to or above Goreinu's reaction to Razor's ball throw

Who Scales: Genthru, GI Gon, GI Killua, Suppressed Biscuit, Tsezguerra, Rammot, Welfin​

Low Tiers​

High Low-Tiers: Subsonic+ (205.43 m/s)​

The fastest low tiers scale to or above Tocino reacting to Franklin's attack

Who Scales: Basho, Abengane, Binolt, Early GI Gon, Early GI Killua, Succession Arc Hanzo, Hinrigh, Pokkle, Wing, Likely Election Arc Leorio​

Low-Tiers: Subsonic+ (171.5 m/s)​

The low tiers downscale from Tocino's feat to baseline Subsonic+

Who Scales: Heavens Arena Gon, Heavens Arena Killua​

Bottom Tiers​

High Bottom-Tiers: Subsonic (96 m/s)​

The fastest bottom tiers scale to or above Killua blitzing Johness

Who Scales: Hunter Exam Killua, Hanzo, Melody, Leorio, Palm, Featless Nen Users​

Bottom Tiers: Subsonic (59 m/s)​

The slowest superhuman characters in the series scale to Gon blitzing a prisoner

Who Scales: Hunter Exam Gon​

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​

Conclusion​

Once again let me reiterate that the scaling here is not final, I am very open to ideas about where each character should be placed as I know I have a few debatable placements.
However before doing that I recommend you check out my Scaling Sandbox for a more detailed breakdown about why a character scales to a certain tier and not higher or lower.
That's all for right now so with that lets get started.​

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Will comment soon

I disagree with Neferpitou Blitz and Killua's lightning feat being incorrect, the rest of your concerns are fair.

Although I'm iffy on your take about Hisoka's feat, as it's more about how much he moved in relation to the shockwave rather than the fact some of it managed to harm him.​

 

[Stryker861]

I'll go through this later.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Although I'm iffy on your take about Hisoka's feat, as it's more about how much he moved in relation to the shockwave rather than the fact some of it managed to harm him.​

The entire point is he didn't outrace the shockwave, It hit him. So he shouldn't be scaling to outracing the explosion at all, cause if he did he wouldn't have gotten hit in the first place. He even comments himself that the explosion propelled him to the other side of the arena. He notices something is up, jumps away, and the shockwave still hits him hard enough to take off his leg and propel him to the other side of the ring.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

The entire point is he didn't outrace the shockwave, It hit him. So he shouldn't be scaling to outracing the explosion at all, cause if he did he wouldn't have gotten hit in the first place. He even comments himself that the explosion propelled him to the other side of the arena. He notices something is up, jumps away, and the shockwave still hits him hard enough to take off his leg and propel him to the other side of the ring.

The panel is enough for me, I concede; I'll go over the blitz and lightning

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Looks good, good work.

 

[NJZanDatsu]

You did a lot of good work.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

The panel is enough for me, I concede; I'll go over the blitz and lightning

Thank you for being reasonable

I'll wait for your response to the lightning and Pitou Blitz

You did a lot of good work.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

bump

 

[Chariot190]

change the color of the first paragraph, my old man eyes have trouble reading dark color on dark color

 

[Stryker861]

After taking a look most of this looks good. Great job shmeaty

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

After taking a look most of this looks good. Great job shmeaty

Thank you

Any complaints with the speed ratings for certain characters?

I know a big one most people may notice is the fact that Pouf is rated higher in speed then all of the other royal guards

The reason being is that he has a direct statement of being comparable to Godspeed Killua while Pitou does not

 

[Stryker861]

Thank you

Any complaints with the speed ratings for certain characters?

I know a big one most people may notice is the fact that Pouf is rated higher in speed then all of the other royal guards

The reason being is that he has a direct statement of being comparable to Godspeed Killua while Pitou does not

My only critique is that i think adult gon has enough to support a flat out MHS rather than a possibly

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

My only critique is that i think adult gon has enough to support a flat out MHS rather than a possibly

What do you think justifies a flat out rating?

 

[Stryker861]

What do you think justifies a flat out rating?

Well pretty much everything you listed for his possibly justifications i think is enough for a regular rating
pitou seemingly couldent keep track off adult gons movement's at all even though she could see neteroes hands. There's also the statements of gon being a threat to the king. Pitou did say power but I don't thinks it an ap exclusive statement, just a generalized power level statement like how characters always say x person is stronger than me even though theres clearly a speed gap and not just ap. And for what it's worth in the anime gon seemingly percives pitous movements in semi slow motion before he kicks her

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Well pretty much everything you listed for his possibly justifications i think is enough for a regular rating
pitou seemingly couldent keep track off adult gons movement's at all even though she could see neteroes hands. There's also the statements of gon being a threat to the king. Pitou did say power but I don't thinks it an ap exclusive statement, just a generalized power level statement like how characters always say x person is stronger than me even though theres clearly a speed gap and not just ap. And for what it's worth in the anime gon seemingly percives pitous movements in semi slow motion before he kicks her

The thing is though we have no evidence that Netero was going at his max speed there, plus Netero's arms explicitly move slower that the giant buddha statue behind him which is where the MHS rating is coming from in the first place, not his arm movement speed.

The Emission blast Pitou was hit by explicitly blitzed her too so theirs that as well

 

[Stryker861]

The thing is though we have no evidence that Netero was going at his max speed there, plus Netero's arms explicitly move slower that the giant buddha statue behind him which is where the MHS rating is coming from in the first place, not his arm movement speed.

The Emission blast Pitou was hit by explicitly blitzed her too so theirs that as well

Thats fair

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

his arm movement speed.

Netero's arm speed scales.

Also, Adult Gon should flat out scale to Meruem, he can't be a threat to the guy if he can't touch him.

Either Meruem is downgraded to Possibly, or Gon is updated.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

The Emission blast Pitou was hit by explicitly blitzed her too so theirs that as well

Also not true, she defended herself from the blast and put her arm up to block.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Also not true, she defended herself from the blast and put her arm up to block.

It's not really discernable in the manga which is what I'm basing this on

Netero's arm speed scales.

Also, Adult Gon should flat out scale to Meruem, he can't be a threat to the guy if he can't touch him.

Either Meruem is downgraded to Possibly, or Gon is updated.

I guess since the calc treats Meruem as going at least this speed (Even though realistically it should be Meruem taking up most of the time and not 50/50)

The point still is that we don't know for sure that Netero was hitting at max speed

Especially since we get confirmation that even Meruem couldn't see Netero's attacks, only their afterimages

Scaling Pitou's reactions above Meruems really doesn't sit right with me

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

I disagree with Neferpitou Blitz and Killua's lightning feat being incorrect, the rest of your concerns are fair.​

Also any updates on this?

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Problems with Current Calc's​

Hmmm, after some consideration, I must say, I have a problem with three of these complaints. I'll correct what I think is wrong, and add more problems with the current calc's scaling.
​

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Netero hitting Pitou​

• The Dragon Dives weren't at the dome when Pitou attacked.​

  ​

Were they not?
I don't know if looking at a shot from above is the best way to show this!
It seemed to be basically aligned with the tip in this panel!

I could be wrong!
but I don't think the assumption that it was close to Pitou's original position is that bad, actually
considering it seemed closed in the start of the chapter!
​

• The time frame is not 0.96 seconds, it started a little bit after Netero entered Pitou's En​

  ​

True!

This is a fair point!
Honestly don't know how this wasn't rejected before

HOWEVER! This is not a reason to discard the feat in it's entirety, we can reach a new timeframe!
We can use the anime to get more context.
In the manga, we don't hear Morel counting past six, however, the anime depicts the Dragon Dive reaching the En at three seconds.

This makes for a total timeframe of 3.96 seconds!!!!!

Adjusting the elements of the original calculation, we get:​

1. Dragon Dive's speed: 505.05m/s (Mach 1.47)​
2. Timeframe: 0.000391110619 Seconds​
3. Netero's Attack Speed: Mach 66.83 (High Hypersonic+)​

This is still a great supporting feat nonetheless!

​

• Pitou should not scale to this, the manga is not discernable so she didn't really block.​

She is depicted as blocking in Chapter 265. Even more so here!!!
She didn't block after she was hit, that's redundant.
The anime gives context
and doesn't contradict the manga, it expands on it!​

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Killua Lightning Speed​

• We don't have a reason to believe Killua's arm made an arch as the lightning reached the ground.​

This one is... iffy.

It's quite unfortunate, but the anime changes the feat!
So we can't use that for context

I believe it's fair, when we see something start and end on the same panel,
it's rare when these things didn't happen at the same time.

Let's picture the lightning as a baseball,
and Killua's arm as the baseball bat.

Looking at this panel:

Although we don't see where the ball is in reference to the bat, it's natural that he swung the bat as the ball reached an X amount of speed, as the panel is depicting the end of the swing, and how much the ball travelled in that time!

I believe it's fair to treat Killua's feat under the same vision, in my opinion at least, because, if the mangaka wanted to depict only the lightning reaching rammot, Killua's hands would be aligned with the lightning itself!

BUT!!
We both know that's not how he chose to draw the panel.

Instead we're shown the lightning reaching the ground, and Killua finishing his movement at the same time.

I'm not very strong on this take, so if you don't agree, that's okay
​

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Pitou Blitz​

• Not a blitz​

I don't have time to finish this today. I have several problems with this feat as well, but this is not one of them.
I believe it's unfair to say this isn't a blitz because the boys couldn't feel Pitou at this distance

We know for a fact Pitou was using En, and the membrane of her En is what reached Kaito
This means the boys' range is not relevant because it's Pitou's En that is reaching them

Even if you argue that the membrane stopped at Kaito,
she lunged at them! Their range should've picked up a Nen right beside them too.
She is the epicenter, meaning the membrane reached Gon and Killua anyway
Yet, it was so fast, they didn't even register it before she made it to Kaito

I'd say it is a blitz. Gon and Killua have a superhuman eyesight, and were looking in the direction she was coming from too.​

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Hmmm, after some consideration, I must say, I have a problem with three of these complaints. I'll correct what I think is wrong, and add more problems with the current calc's scaling.
​

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Netero hitting Pitou​

• ​

  The Dragon Dives weren't at the dome when Pitou attacked.​

Were they not?
I don't know if looking at a shot from above is the best way to show this!
It seemed to be basically aligned with the tip in this panel!

I could be wrong!
but I don't think the assumption that it was close to Pitou's original position is that bad, actually
considering it seemed closed in the start of the chapter!​

This is an upwards shot which inherently makes it hard to discern their heights, even so I would still argue that is meant to show them above and not on the dome

Especially when the very next panel shows us a view from Pitou in which we see they are still quite a ways away

And once again this is before she jumps a large distance up and gets slapped away in which we get another panel showing the distance between the dome and Netero

​

• ​

  The time frame is not 0.96 seconds, it started a little bit after Netero entered Pitou's En​

True!

This is a fair point!
Honestly don't know how this wasn't rejected before

HOWEVER! This is not a reason to discard the feat in it's entirety, we can reach a new timeframe!
We can use the anime to get more context.
In the manga, we don't hear Morel counting past six, however, the anime depicts the Dragon Dive reaching the En at three seconds.

This makes for a total timeframe of 3.96 seconds!!!!!​

This I actually agree with however since I disproved the .96 timeframe above we'd have to use something else

Something like the later timeframe we're given with Youpi that shows the Dragon Dive penetrating the first floor

Keep in mind when I re-do the calculation (Or your free to do it if you want) I'd also factor in the height of the tower into the total distance but this is just a lowball

Timeframe: 6.01 Seconds

Dragon Dive Speed: 2000/6.01 = 332.7787022 m/s

Netero's Speed: 8.993387588/(0.104223375/332.7787022) = 28715.32274 m/s or Mach 83.7181421

​

• Pitou should not scale to this, the manga is not discernable so she didn't really block.​

She is depicted as blocking in Chapter 265. Even more so here!!!
She didn't block after she was hit, that's redundant.
The anime gives context
and doesn't contradict the manga, it expands on it!​

I actually concede on this point as upon closer inspection of the initial blast her hands do seem more forward than they were when she was initially jumping up to him. The anime also shows this

It's also now possible to get a supporting calc since she does this in the same instance Netero hits her

Assuming movement equal to 1 meter already gives us Mach 9.3 which is more great supporting calcs

Killua Lightning Speed​

• We don't have a reason to believe Killua's arm made an arch as the lightning reached the ground.​

This one is... iffy.

It's quite unfortunate, but the anime changes the feat!
So we can't use that for context

I believe it's fair, when we see something start and end on the same panel,
it's rare when these things didn't happen at the same time.

Let's picture the lightning as a baseball,
and Killua's arm as the baseball bat.

Looking at this panel:

Although we don't see where the ball is in reference to the bat, it's natural that he swung the bat as the ball reached an X amount of speed, as the panel is depicting the end of the swing, and how much the ball travelled in that time!

I believe it's fair to treat Killua's feat under the same vision, in my opinion at least, because, if the mangaka wanted to depict only the lightning reaching rammot, Killua's hands would be aligned with the lightning itself!

I get that sentiment but these two instances are not comparable

Killua does not use his own body to propel the lightning at those speeds, it's electricity, so it just naturally goes that fast.

As such the usual argument that he must have moved at least a similar speed in order to propel it that fast doesn't really work

And unfortunately like you said the anime changes the feat so we can't use that for context

Since we have no real argument for assuming that Killua HAD to have moved that distance in the time it took his lightning to hit the ground we have to scrap it as it's a baseless assumption

​

Pitou Blitz​

• Not a blitz​

We know for a fact Pitou was using En, and the membrane of her En is what reached Kaito
This means the boys' range is not relevant because it's Pitou's En that is reaching them​

We actually don't know that it was Pitou's En as in both he manga and anime nothing resembling En is there

There are plenty of characters in HxH that can sense characters without using En or otherwise and Togashi usually reserves that for high ranking individualls within his verse

As you can see here with Tsubone as well as Hisoka in an earlier chapter

Very skilled characters have been shown to be able to sense people even without En and since we see no En here I'm inclined to believe that is what Kite is doing

I'd say it is a blitz. Gon and Killua have a superhuman eyesight, and were looking in the direction she was coming from too.​

Gon and Killua Verbatim didn't know where Pitou was so to say She blitzed them from that far away is wrong no matter how you put it

And since we cant assume an arbitrary distance at which they could have noticed her the calc as a whole should be scrapped

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Dragon Dive Speed: 2000/6.01 = 332.7787022 m/s

Netero's Speed: 8.993387588/(0.104223375/332.7787022) = 28715.32274 m/s or Mach 83.7181421

That's fair, I'll do it from scratch then!

I get that sentiment but these two instances are not comparable

Killua does not use his own body to propel the lightning at those speeds, it's electricity, so it just naturally goes that fast.

As such the usual argument that he must have moved at least a similar speed in order to propel it that fast doesn't really work

And unfortunately like you said the anime changes the feat so we can't use that for context

Since we have no real argument for assuming that Killua HAD to have moved that distance in the time it took his lightning to hit the ground we have to scrap it as it's a baseless assumption.

That's not my argument at all!

I said that a manga panel depicts events that happened in the same timeframe in almost every instance, the baseball bat example is not about a direct connection between the force of the swing to the ball, it's about how we see the swing finishing and the ball travelling a certain distance. That is a visual information, it tells that the swinging that started in an earlier panel finished, and it also tells the ball travelled across space, both informations are delivered at the same time.

This also applies to Killua, we see him preparing the arch, pointing his finger up, and in one panel we're told: That he made a swing with his arm, the exact point where the lightning is thrown out of his finger, the target of the lightning strike, and the end of the swing!
It's the same panel, so it happened at the same time, that's just visual info

One thing though,

• so it just naturally goes that fast.​

That's not how it works, if it has nothing that attracted it to a particular direction, Killua's arch has direct influence in it's direction.

We actually don't know that it was Pitou's En.

We actually do!

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

That's not my argument at all!

I said that a manga panel depicts events that happened in the same timeframe in almost every instance, the baseball bat example is not about a direct connection between the force of the swing to the ball, it's about how we see the swing finishing and the ball travelling a certain distance. That is a visual information, it tells that the swinging that started in an earlier panel finished, and it also tells the ball travelled across space, both informations are delivered at the same time.

This also applies to Killua, we see him preparing the arch, pointing his finger up, and in one panel we're told: That he made a swing with his arm, the exact point where the lightning is thrown out of his finger, the target of the lightning strike, and the end of the swing!
It's the same panel, so it happened at the same time, that's just visual info

One thing though,

• so it just naturally goes that fast.​

That's not how it works, if it has nothing that attracted it to a particular direction, Killua's arch has direct influence in it's direction.

In almost every instance is not every instance

Also we don't see how far the lightning traveled in this because the panel doesn't show the lightning in motion, just the result of it stunning Rammot and making it's way into the ground

Unlike the other instance where we at least see the ball in motion compared to the batters swing, we don't see the lightning in motion

We can't assume that he moved in tandem when there is no in-between panel to show it

We actually do!

Yes, and this was several hours after she had killed Kite

Time she could of used to further develop her Nen to the point she learned how to use it

This is not baseless as it is in this time she learns her own Nen ability



I highly, HIGHLY doubt that a hunter as skilled as Kite would just walk right into the most powerful and sinister En ever seen in the series and be surprised that Pitou is there

Especially when other hunters on Kite's caliber easily identify and avoid Pitou's En at all cost

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

In almost every instance is not every instance

Also we don't see how far the lightning traveled in this because the panel doesn't show the lightning in motion, just the result of it stunning Rammot and making it's way into the ground

It's still the startand when it comes to visual information, if you're doubting it you need to provide a valid visual contradiction!

I don't understand your second point, we do see the path the lightning took, and the target. Again I'd point my example, the panel is informing visually that both the swinging motion that Killua did ended, and that the lightning hit it's target. If there's no in-between panel, it's because there is no particular order that needed to be established for both events set up by the initial panel of Killua charging up.

Yes, and this was several hours after she had killed Kite

Uhhh, read the scan?
It verbatim says Pitou used En to identify Kite and that it touched him, how would she even know Kite is there if she DIDN'T use Nen. She was born already knowing En, that's what's been said there

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

It's still the startand when it comes to visual information, if you're doubting it you need to provide a valid visual contradiction!

I don't understand your second point, we do see the path the lightning took, and the target. Again I'd point my example, the panel is informing visually that both the swinging motion that Killua did ended, and that the lightning hit it's target. If there's no in-between panel, it's because there is no particular order that needed to be established for both events set up by the initial panel of Killua charging up.

It's the standard when we see the object in motion, not when it has already completed it's motion

There not being an in between panel does not mean that there is no particular order to things, it means that the author expects you to fill in the blanks of what happened

Just like if an author draws a punch and just draws the cockback and the fully extended hand he expects you to fill in the blanks on what happens in between

This is fine normally but when you try to assign an order to things that we can't see and assume he did something a certain way is where this method breaks down, especially when the object is far faster comparatively than the person

Say a character shoots a gun and the path of the bullet goes off panel, the gun knocks his hand upwards a bit

Do we then assume that the character moved his arm upwards that amount in the time it took the bullet to travel off-panel?

The answer is no because we never at any point see the bullet on panel, so the calc would be guesswork

Similar logic occurs in this calc

We don't know when the lightning impacted Rammot, and if you wanna say that since the lightning is still on panel that it has to be in the same timeframe think again

Lightning lingers in real life, that's the very reason we can see it IRL

It doesn't instantly disappear, it lasts about half a second which is plenty of time for Killua to complete his arc

Uhhh, read the scan?
It verbatim says Pitou used En to identify Kite and that it touched him, how would she even know Kite is there if she DIDN'T use Nen. She was born already knowing En, that's what's been said there

My bad

However this doesn't change the fact that both Killua and Gon where unaware of Pitou's position

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

It's the standard when we see the object in motion, not when it has already completed it's motion

There not being an in between panel does not mean that there is no particular order to things, it means that the author expects you to fill in the blanks of what happened

Just like if an author draws a punch and just draws the cockback and the fully extended hand he expects you to fill in the blanks on what happens in between

This is fine normally but when you try to assign an order to things that we can't see and assume he did something a certain way is where this method breaks down, especially when the object is far faster comparatively than the person

Say a character shoots a gun and the path of the bullet goes off panel, the gun knocks his hand upwards a bit

Do we then assume that the character moved his arm upwards that amount in the time it took the bullet to travel off-panel?

The answer is no because we never at any point see the bullet on panel, so the calc would be guesswork

Similar logic occurs in this calc

We don't know when the lightning impacted Rammot, and if you wanna say that since the lightning is still on panel that it has to be in the same timeframe think again

Lightning lingers in real life, that's the very reason we can see it IRL

It doesn't instantly disappear, it lasts about half a second which is plenty of time for Killua to complete his arc

This is a fantastic point, I concede. Killua's case is even worse, because it likely lingers for several seconds.

However this doesn't change the fact that both Killua and Gon where unaware of Pitou's position

Once her En reached them, the fact they couldn't register her aura in time means a blitz still occured.

It's just not Mach 100 because the maximum distance which they could've reacted to her is 2 kilometers.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

This is a fantastic point, I concede. Killua's case is even worse, because it likely lingers for several seconds.

Thank you for being civil

I might Update the OP with this argument as well to help argue my point

Once her En reached them, the fact they couldn't register her aura in time means a blitz still occured.

It's just not Mach 100 because the maximum distance which they could've reacted to her is 2 kilometers.

Pitou stops using En when she goes into battle mode, the same happened when Netero came in contact with her Aura

This is further backed up by Gon and Killua not shi!ting their pants until Pitou was behind them and releasing her passive Ren, that's when they actually start showing signs of discomfort


I'm going to bed now as it's 4 am, thanks for the criticism

I'll be back tomorrow should you respond

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Bumping

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Pitou stops using En when she goes into battle mode, the same happened when Netero came in contact with her Aura

This is further backed up by Gon and Killua not shi!ting their pants until Pitou was behind them and releasing her passive Ren, that's when they actually start showing signs of discomfort

This is not really backing up, because while the En has a sinister aura, it's not Ren. They were already scared before the Ren too. Pitou also stopped using En to Netero because he was an actual threat to Meruem, and to use her Hatsu, she didn't have one there.

You can also fight while using En, as shown before in the show, so yeah, we know she was using En, so saying she stopped using it is an assumption.

We know for a fact Kaito was sensing her, and yet couldn't register her movement until she already ripped his arm off.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

This is not really backing up, because while the En has a sinister aura, it's not Ren. They were already scared before the Ren too. Pitou also stopped using En to Netero because he was an actual threat to Meruem, and to use her Hatsu, she didn't have one there.

They were surprised before because Pitou ripped Kite's arm off

We see what type of reaction most characters have when coming in contact with Pitou's aura and we don't see that reaction until Pitou pumps up her Ren behind the boys

Killua specifically recalls the strength of Pitou's aura from that moment as opposed to the moment Kite noticed, most certainly because that was the first moment he had ever come in contact with Pitou's aura

You can also fight while using En, as shown before in the show, so yeah, we know she was using En, so saying she stopped using it is an assumption.

You can but it's not the norm

The only character in the series shown to do this is Nobunaga

Multiple character have said that it's a strenuous technique and to leave it on during battle would be stupid

Pitou disengages when she fights, this isn't specific to Netero as it never says it's specific to Netero

We get the blanket statement "He turned off his aura to go into battle mode"

Also this whole Pitou didn't drop it because Kite wasn't a threat is hampered by the fact that Pitou considered Kite enough of an adversary that she specifically made a Hatsu in order to fight him again

We know for a fact Kaito was sensing her, and yet couldn't register her movement until she already ripped his arm off.

He was alerting the boys for one and being within someone's En does not mean they know exactly where they are

We see this with Hisoka's Aura being attributed to a random girl because Gon and Killua couldn't discern the exact source of it

The same thing happened when Killua came in contact with Netero's aura

En is just expanding your aura out so the same rules apply

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

We see this with Hisoka's Aura being attributed to a random girl because Gon and Killua couldn't discern the exact source of it

Oh, the boys who can't feel Nen can't discern the source of an Aura?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Oh, the boys who can't feel Nen can't discern the source of an Aura?

K, so what about the Netero example?

My point isn't so much that you can't discern the general area the Aura is coming from, quite the contrary

My point is that you can't pinpoint the exact epicenter of the Ren or En granted it's large enough

And that's not even what I'm arguing here

I'm arguing that Pitou didn't have her En on when she made the jump, which I have provided reasoning for

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

bumping

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

BUMP

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

bump

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

bump

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

bump

 

[Elizhaa]

What is the TLDR from the recent discussion of what is agree/disagree.