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Human strength revision

LIFE_OF_KING

LIFE_OF_KING

10,083
8,214

The human limit has become 548 kg because of this, but thats not right. Oleksii was wearing a lifting belt, which helps a lot in deadlift, and, technically, is not his natural human strength.

Also, if you deadlift a 100 kg bar doesn't mean that your strength is only 100 kg, it means that you can lift 100 kg up to a certain distance. The greater the distance the more force and energy is distributed and expended.

For exemple, Eddie almost died lifting 500 kg, but he can later lift 536 kg without too much difficulty. Does this mean that Eddie has magically become stronger? No. Eddie lifting 500 kilograms was an incredibly higher distance, and therefore more difficult to lift.

The longer the distance, the less weight you lift. So, technically speaking, the moment you put the most force into something is when you can't move it.

But is there a device that doesnt move and is able to calculate how many newtons your body is capable of exerting? Yes (Eddie scored 750 kg). But I can't exactly find the highest value calculated, except the one that is on the link.

Basically, lets upgrade human limit to at least 750 kg for now 🗿👍
 
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Entirely disagree.

Firstly, while yes Oleksii was using a belt, a belt is first and foremost a safety tool. It compresses the abdomen so when athletes brace (breathe with the belly then tighten up to create intra-abdominal pressure), they're able to get tighter. Does it add 10 to 15% on lifts? Maybe. Or maybe it adds 0.5%. It really depends on the person actually doing the lift. This argument might even ring more hollow for pro strongmen in particular, who have monstrously strong cores that could lift close to the maximal weight ranges they get to. I can tell you myself that there's a good chance I could pull close to my maximum even without a belt, since I train beltless for a significant degree of my sets. If anything the belt is more of a confidence booster, even though it provides some degree of mechanical aid.

Second of all, Eddie Hall wasn't just using a belt, he was using a belt and a deadlift suit, the latter of which is specifically designed to increase deadlifting strength. So if you want to discount Oleksii's lift you'd have to discount that one as well. Furthermore, Eddie was also using a belt and straps for that force measuring thing, so again, you'd have to discount.

I think just trying to grasp the height of human strength through raw lifts alone is pretty useless here. I mean Usain Bolt used specialty-made shoes to run as fast as he did, and definitely couldn't replicate that performance if he ran with sub-optimal shoes, or barefoot. Does that mean we should just discount him from the speed page? No, because that'd be stupid.

Thirdly, using equipment that only measures top-end strength at the very apex of the lift is going against the spirit of "lifting something" me feels. At the point where Eddie was pulling, the weight was literally a few inches away from lockout. If we accept that, what's next? Do we count backlifts as legitimate and upgrade our human limit to over a ton because a certain amount of force is being exerted? See what I mean?
 
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I do think that base this on the "world record" is not very accurate i mean world records might stay for a while but they are constantly being beaten, the "world record" is supposed to be "peak human" but as far as we can tell its actually just the best the humans got so far. I guess in the end this is the most accurate we can get.
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
I do think that base this on the "world record" is not very accurate i mean world records might stay for a while but they are constantly being beaten, the "world record" is supposed to be "peak human" but as far as we can tell its actually just the best the humans got so far. I guess in the end this is the most accurate we can get.
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The alternative would be to dive into pure speculation of how high the human limit can get, which no one in this site is qualified to do. No one here is a professional strength athlete or strength coach, or has a PhD in exercise science.
 
Crabwhale said:
The alternative would be to dive into pure speculation of how high the human limit can get, which no one in this site is qualified to do. No one here is a professional strength athlete or strength coach, or has a PhD in exercise science.
Click to expand...
I also dont know maybe how much is needed to crush the entire human body? Although i guess in the end its the same as a world record since the number would be based on the best human measures so far.
We all have to acknowledge is not perfect but i guess this is the best we can get anyways.
 
Just for reference, what's the highest unaided lift a human has done?
 
In any case, I respectfully dissent from the premise of the thread, citing identical rationales as those espoused by @Crabwhale.
 
Chariot190 said:
Elevating or raising an object of various mass to a higher elevation through the use of arms, while unaided by equipment or other such factors that could potentially aid or hinder how much mass is being moved in question.
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487.5 kg/1075 lbs. Done without straps or a deadlift suit, only a lifting belt.

It's sumo though so it sucks and is cheating.
 
Lets hear Life's rebuttal

I do believe there's more than one way to define "Maximum Human LS"

I feel we should come to an agreement on what that means before we even consider using any one of there extraordinary feats of lifting

Because like King and Crab demonstrated depending on what you count it can be vastly different from one person to the other

Lets figure out that first
 
While I did say that, I also believe in the spirit of what "lifting something" is, which I'd say is pretty intrinsic and understandable.

That is to say, picking something up from the ground, with your arms. That's it. And the deadlift is the pinnacle of this simplistic approach. Just a bar and a dude and a lot of weight.

That being said I'd still qualify several people who don't do or don't have to do deadlifts as peak human in terms of strength. Olympic weightlifters come to mind.
 
I'm kinda a dumbass on this whole thing, but what if we just split it into a few categories, like natural or with equipment?
 
Da3ggman said:
I'm kinda a dumbass on this whole thing, but what if we just split it into a few categories, like natural or with equipment?
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This is for tier porpoises are you supporting a new tier for using equipment?
Crabwhale said:
While I did say that, I also believe in the spirit of what "lifting something" is, which I'd say is pretty intrinsic and understandable.

That is to say, picking something up from the ground, with your arms. That's it. And the deadlift is the pinnacle of this simplistic approach. Just a bar and a dude and a lot of weight.

That being said I'd still qualify several people who don't do or don't have to do deadlifts as peak human in terms of strength. Olympic weightlifters come to mind.
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I so understand your point but I also think that most character in the wiki don't actually scale from deadlift or anything like that most of them scale just because they can take someone off the ground. Using deadlifts might be sort of a weird limit since for example like the example you showed with a guy lifting 710kg would be used for scaling and he would be superhuman by this wiki.
 
I think people can tell the difference between different lifts. And if they can't, we can just correct them.

A 200 kg clean and jerk could be considered Athletic by our system, except it's not, it's peak human. A 600 kg yoke run could be considered Superhuman, except no, still peak human.

This is just a consequence of our simplistic way of listing lifting strength in the wiki, but if it becomes an issue, we can always just fix it. I doubt there's enough wiggle room between characters in different media to even bother much with the distinction, even "peak humans" end up just being superhuman 99% of the time. Because writers often have no real conception of what a peak human strength feat is, or they just don't care.
 
Crab is 100% right about the belt thing. Using a belt doesn’t magically make you stronger. All it does is aid in stability and act as a safety net for your back.

As far as the other point, I mean yeah if you’re talking about energy then moving an object a further distance can amount to more energy required to move a lighter object. However, to my understanding we are talking lifting strength. Which is a measure of force, in which case lifting an object over a larger distance isn’t really relevant. The force required to lift 100 kg 1 meter vs 10 meters (on the surface of earth) is still going to be at least ~981 newtons. So, I disagree with that point made in the OP on the basis of more energy expenditure =/= more force inherently.

If the current lift we use is outdated then sure replace it, but the actual arguments in the OP I disagree with.
 
Agree with Crab.

Wearing a lifting belt can provide several benefits when lifting weights, but it does not directly increase strength. The primary function of a lifting belt is to provide support and stability to the lower back and core muscles during heavy lifting exercises - this support can help to reduce the risk of injury and allow the lifter to maintain proper form throughout the lift, which can ultimately lead to more effective training and improved performance over time. Additionally, wearing a belt can increase intra-abdominal pressure, to help one to stabilize the spine, to help with the transfer of force from the legs and hips to the barbell which in turn will help the X person to have a better form with less effort from their part.

The longer the distance, the less weight you lift. So, technically speaking, the moment you put the most force into something is when you can't move it.
Click to expand...

This statement is not entirely accurate. The amount of weight you can lift depends on several factors, such as your physical strength, technique, and the specific muscle groups involved in the lifting process. The distance you move the weight is also a factor, but it does not necessarily mean that you lift less weight as the distance increases. When you lift a weight, you apply force to it, which can be measured in Newtons - the force you apply depends on the weight of the object and the acceleration you give it where force equals mass times acceleration. This means that if you want to lift a heavier weight, you need to apply more force to overcome the object's inertia and accelerate it. In terms of distance, the force you apply may vary depending on the lift's specific mechanics. For example, in a deadlift, the weight is lifted from the ground to a fully upright position, which may involve a longer movement distance. However, the lifter will apply maximal force at the start of the lift to break the weight's inertia, and then gradually decrease the force as they approach the upright position. Basically, the amount of weight you can lift depends on multiple factors, including force, acceleration, and the specific way of the lift (like Crab said the Sumo technique for lifting which can be a bit of cheating but its still doable as some people have problems with the back or legs and this position will be beneficial). The distance you move the weight is a factor, but it does not necessarily mean you lift less weight as the distance increases.

Some individuals may be able to lift more weight using the conventional deadlift technique, while others may find greater success with the sumo deadlift technique. In some cases, the opposite can also be true. Personally, I find that I am able to lift more weight with the sumo deadlift technique, but my legs become fatigued more quickly than when I use the conventional method. While the conventional deadlift places greater emphasis on the lower back, the mechanics of lifting play a significant role in determining which technique is most effective for an individual. For instance, lifting heavy objects with poor form can be more challenging than with good form, and adopting good form may result in increased strength. Ex: Someone who can lift 100kg while leaning forward in an awkward position, but can suddenly lift 130 kg with good form. Would this count as a significant improvement in strength (a stat amp...funny thought)? Similarly, someone using a lifting belt to stabilize their spine may be able to lift 140 kg with good form. In this situation, it is likely that the individual could have lifted 140 kg from the beginning, but their inability to stabilize their spine and lower back due to poor form prevented them from performing at their maximum capacity.
 
I should clarify the reason I think "sumo" is cheating is because by all accounts it's an entirely different lift.

The conventional deadlift primarily utilizes the spinal erectors, whereas sumo places much greater emphasis on the quadriceps femoris. In case you can't tell, the quadriceps are ******* huge compared to your posterior chain. Therefore, anyone who has the correct leverages to get into a sumo position will almost certainly be stronger than if he or she pulled conventional.

But that's an aside born out of me watching too many Alexander Bromley videos.
 
mujikcboro-seriymujik.gif
 
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