How powerful are the Silmarils (LOTR)?

[Hat_mchat]

Aren't dimensions simply a facet of the concepts of time and space? Also do you agree with the infinite speed upgrade, Is the evidence sufficient?

 

[Kaltias]

I'll just quote Azzy because he explained it better than how I would do it.

Again, it does if the argument for it is based on use of the word "principle" for a verse where existence is a single universe. You are assuming that because Eru is not bound by the principles of matter, space, and time that govern Eä, he is not bound by any conceptual form of space or time period. Eru is not bound by the rules of space or time that govern Eä because he created Eä and what rules govern it. This does not make him qualitatively superior to all forms of space and time in general, especially ones not mentioned or hinted at in any form.

But I do agree with the infinite speed.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am fine with infinite speed if Azathoth is.

 

[Hat_mchat]

I can't really argue anymore new points against it (although i still disagree). Could the infinite speed then be applied to all valar and maiar?

 

[Kaltias]

You'll have to wait for Azathoth's opinion for that

 

[Antvasima]

As I mentioned, let's wait for Azathoth.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Infinite sounds fine, based on what I've seen.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Feel free to change the profiles accordingly then.

 

[Antvasima]

Just make sure to include proper explanations.

 

[Hat_mchat]

Could you please also upgrade feanor to at least tier 4-C?

 

[Hat_mchat]

Just a question, am i allowed to make edits to unlocked pages if i provide reasoning on the page?

 

[Kaltias]

It's better if you make a thread first so that it can be debated beforehand.

 

[Hat_mchat]

I was going to ask to add 4-C to feanor. I think it was agreed upon, but it still hasn't changed.

 

[Kaltias]

Yes, you can add the "4-C with the Silmarils" like Azzy said.

 

[Hat_mchat]

Ok done, could you have a look?

 

[Hat_mchat]

Also could i add the infinite speed upgrade to all ainur?

 

[Kaltias]

You forgot to update striking strength and durability. And I don't think that he should have "at least". And you should add the keys "Without Silmarils | With Silmarils" at the bottom of the page. See the Standard Format for Character Profiles, it's explained here.

Azathoth approved it so the speed should be fine.

 

[Hat_mchat]

Ok thanks

 

[Hat_mchat]

I made it at least as a silmaril is at the very least sun-level. It's very likely silmaril > sun.

Durability shouldn't change though as the silmarils don't allow him to tank star level destruction.

Important EDIT: i can only change profiles less than tier 2. I will add infinite to all the maiar but can't do it for the valar.

EDIT 2: ok turned out only feanor was unlocked

Yeah ok EDIT 3: i can change some profiles to infinite speed.

 

[Hat_mchat]

Ok so now that silmarils are at least 4-C, should anyone who had a reasonable battle with a silmaril wielder be 4-C? Should fingolfin be scaled to 4-C as he fought a morgoth who had the silmarils?

 

[Antvasima]

Which profiles do you need temporarily unlocked?

 

[Hat_mchat]

All the valar and maiar: Ulmo Tulkas Varda Gandalf I can't think of any others.

 

[Hat_mchat]

Do you think fingolfin should be upgraded to 4-C as he fought with a morgoth who had all 3 silmarils? Also i asked on another thread whether ancalagon should have his durability upgraded to star class as he fought with earendil who had a silmaril,

 

[Antvasima]

You need to state all of the exact names of the character pages that need to be unlocked, if I am going to be able to help you out.

 

[Hat_mchat]

List of exact names: Morgoth, Ulmo, Tulkas, Varda, Ungoliant, Gandalf.

 

[Antvasima]

I have unlocked the profiles. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Hat_mchat]

Ok done with those pages. Now can we all just take a moment to appreciate gandalf who can move anywhere at ridiculous speeds.

Also sorry i forgot sauron could you unlock him?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Hat_mchat]

Done

 

[Antvasima]

I will lock all of them then. Should we close this thread?

 

[Antvasima]

On second thought, this was done very sloppily. Sauro now has two contradictory speed statistics.

 

[Hat_mchat]

Gee sorry, should i tidy it or do you want to?

 

[Antvasima]

Do all of the profiles currently have two speed statiatics, and do each of them apply under different circumstances (i.e. physical and spirit form)?

 

[Hat_mchat]

Yes: there is the supersonic to hypersonic for physical now along with infinite speed, and for their form outside ea there is Immeasurable. The valar all have Immeasurable, while the maiar only have Supersonic to hypersonic now with infinite.

 

[Antvasima]

Should the supersonic to hypersonic values be removed, or should it be clarified that this is for when they are in spirit form? Also, shouldn't the Balrogs be updated as well?

 

[Antvasima]

Here are all of our TLOTR profiles:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Lord_of_the_Rings

 

[Hat_mchat]

Ok i got it: supersonic and hypersonic (physical) | infinite (spirit) | Immeasurable (pre creation)

 

[Antvasima]

Are you fine with this Azathoth?

 

[Hat_mchat]

If azathoth agrees, I'd like to add a key to all ainur pages (including maiar) that has it like this: "key: physical form | spirit form | pre-creation form. For the speeds of the maiar i think Immeasurable should be added to their pre creation form as time wasn't present in the timeless halls. Currently profiles such as gandalf only have the unknown tier or none at all for pre creation. If you do allow it the pages are: Morgoth, Tulkas, Ulmo, Varda, Ungoliant, Sauron, Osse, Gandalf, Arien, Tilion, Saruman, Balrogs, Gothmog.

Really sorry about the sloppy editing, it was my first edit on any wiki ever, but i think i got it now. Also i think it is important to add the new Immeasurable upgrade.

Finally on a new note: Balrogs should be upgraded to the very least tier 4-C as ungoliant who just devoured the light of the two trees and drank dry the wells of varda which has been classified as a 2-C feat and they drove her away (i think at most there were 7 balrogs. I think azathoth said scaling to 4-C was more reasonable than 2-C so 4-C balrog probably better than 2-C.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I am fine with Maiar getting keys for their pre-Ea foms.