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how can they ruin SSBU

Good thing I already did this:

Tier 2: Ness, Rosalina, Super Sonic, Shulk with Monado III , Master Hand, Crazy Hand, Pure Hearts Mario, Bowser at peak

Tier 3: Samus (IDK about Zero Suit), Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Bowser Jr., Wario, Donkey Kong

Tier 4: Kirby, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Cloud, Master Hand (just in case), Bayonetta

Tier 5: Link (this one too) , Zelda, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Mega Ma, Mewtwo

Tier 6: Sonic, Diddy Kong, Pit, Palutena, Dark Pit, Marth, Ike, Robi, Roy, Charizard, Lucario, Greninja, Red,

Tier 7: Ivysaur, Lucas, Sheik, Captain Falco, Ryu, Corri, R.O.B., Mii (just in case)

Tier 8: Jigglypuff, Pikachu, Squirtle, Mr. Game & Watch, Lucina, Shulk, Mii, Ice Climbers, Snake, Pac-Ma

Tier 9: Villager, Pichu, Little Mac, Fox, Falco

Tier 10: WFT, Duck Hunt, Olimar/Alph
 
Kirby likely loses out to Bayonetta's time stop as well. Still OP plz nerf
 
Wokistan said:
Kirby likely loses out to Bayonetta's time stop as well. Still OP plz nerf
Click to expand...
Witch Time is time slow and kirby is quadrillions of time c, so even if witch time slows time slown by 99.9%, he still blitzes Bayonetta
 
Pretty sure it slows to a stop, and Bayo herself is some degree of MFTL.
 
Luigi's down throw now starts a combo that includes his entire moveset, ending off with a second down throw to kill, this is a true combo and 100% inescapable even with mods.
 
Wobbling really was never that bad for me tbh, but then again I played Marth in melee so having everything, including your own grab, outrange icies helps a lot.
 
Everyone has counters, Fox and Meta Knight and Bayonetta are OP again, the only stage for 4 players or more is the Great Cave Offensive, Bowser's Side-B grab+suicide only kills whoever he grabs, Nees/Lucas have their recoveries simply removed, Kirby doesn't have to leave Rock form, and the game purposefully adds a wavedash function to the GameCube controller.

Also have Despacito music play on every stage, I dunno.
 
Add in Darth Nihilus and have his aura cover the entire stage, dealing constant damage and knockback
 
Precog Warlock Punch + Sonic's Homing attack tracking porperties, only it's a Bayonetta combo that stuns the opponent, can be cancelled/repeated/spammed and has zero knockback until a finisher input is used.
 
Best part is Ganon's moves aren't even the issue that causes his middling to terrible tiering, so even with something like that he'd still likely be mid tier ish lol
 
Wokistan said:
Best part is Ganon's moves aren't even the issue that causes his middling to terrible tiering, so even with something like that he'd still likely be mid tier ish lol
Click to expand...
How about I make him as fast as Sonic?
 
Sonic's "You're too slow!" taunt automatically plays the clip once it's used once and cannot be shut off until the match ends. Has a 1 / 100 chance of replacing every sound effect with his quote for the remainder of the match. Gradually distorts the sound clip over time.
 
Having no mobility is his main issue, so yeah. Even with time traveling warlock punch, with his normal speed he can't really approach Marth, cloud, or link very well, and Sonic himself is a huge pain. Speaking of which,


Sonic's moves do an absurd amount of damage and hitstun, but no knock back. He can only win through time outs.
 
But stuff like ganon's up air is a legitimately good move even by good character standards. Fast, strong, can be comboed in to, good for edgeguarding when reversed, hell some of the top tiers with weaker up airs could actually benefit from it. Maybe not the likes of cloud and bayo, but you get the idea.
 
Best part is is that that's a thing he can do in Canon that the writers seem to have forgotten about. He used chaos control without an emerald before, and within the span of no more than a minute or so he figured out how to mimic Shadow's chaos power, so the time stop isn't even out of the question.
 
Wokistan said:
But stuff like ganon's up air is a legitimately good move even by good character standards. Fast, strong, can be comboed in to, good for edgeguarding when reversed, hell some of the top tiers with weaker up airs could actually benefit from it. Maybe not the likes of cloud and bayo, but you get the idea.
Click to expand...
That side-B off ledge is satisfactory heaven though. Uhhh, it gets me every time.
 
Yeah, ganon's moves generally aren't the issue, especially the airials. It's just every other attribute about his character. If you've seen those videos where they give him the weight and air speed of Jigglypuff it's insane.
 
Yeah, and also speed is the main problem. And no projectiles whatsoever is pain in the ass. Having no defense against it other than blocking is bad issue as well. I have fun maining it though.
 
To be fair, Marth has no projectiles and he does fine especially in melee where he's amazing and some argue he's better than falco. Though his range on normal moves is admittedly gigantic. Sonic also doesn't have projectiles usable in neutral, but he doesn't play like a normal character.
 
The problem is that unlike Sonic and Marth, Ganon doesn't have the mobility and speed it needs to counter it. It doesn't have suitable punish options for the ones who either throw projectiles at you or camping either. That is why Mega Man vs Ganon is such a bad matchup.
 
Yeah. Ganon being more nimble, specifically in the air, would help a lot. Look at his placement in melee where options such as wavedashing, wavelandig, wave canceling etc were available to him.
 
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