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It's been a long ass two weeks, but I will get back to this whenever I can. Tho at a glance, my stance on it hasn't changed much. But will give a more detailed response when I can.
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Hourai Immortal High-Godly (Touhou Revisions)
- Thread starter Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- touhou touhou project
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Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,211
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- #164
Cool. This would also necessitate adding type 2 information manip and EE to Sagume, of course. We should obviously still wait for Confluctor though.
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I don't like the context of assuming one particular character had a hand in the execution of another just because the Lunar Capital would use "everything they have". Do we have any reason to assume Sagume would have a hand in the execution herself?
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,211
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- #166
She's been known to be willing to kill people en masse for the benefit of the Lunar Capital before, including Kaguya. During the events of LoLK, she planned to "purify" the earth, effectively killing everything on it in the process. This would include Kaguya since she was exiled to earth centuries ago.
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It didn’t mention her though. It mention the sages who did planned it though as in more than one people are involved in this plan.
ÆONS
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She was. I'm pretty sure that Sagume was the one who caused the Urban Legend incident in Touhou 14.5 in order to further her plans in regards to the Lunar Capital getting forced to flee from Junko.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #169
...Sagume literally is a Lunar Sage though. Furthermore, that text is literally from her profile. Also, the following segment in her profile uses singular "she", showing that it was just Sagume in this case.
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The scan mention she had some relations to the Urban Legend though. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/900627448192958495/965658567694766110/unknown.png
That was shown to me directly
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“She wasn’t totally serious about it though” plus the scan you show mentions the plan was no more than insurance.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,211
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- #172
I... yes, that's the point. Her using urban legends would've destroyed Gensokyo and purified it of all life if successful. This literally just proves my point?
Please for the love of god acknowledge the context. The reason she wasn't serious about it was because nobody in the Lunar Capital wanted to relocate; This is directly stated: "and none of the Moon's people wanted to move the capital to begin with. Returning to the moon would be ideal". So yes she was 100% willing to kill if necessary, which is my point, but she also would've preferred to not move; Not because she's against killing, but because her allegiances lie with the Lunar Capital and they probably would've bitched about it if they had to move to earth.
ÆONS
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It was an insurance plan—particularly on Sagume and the sages end—in the case the lunarians would not be able to repel Junko before their minds erode inside the Dream World. On top of that, even with such a detail, Sagume was definitely investing in her plan to commit omnicide as she did cause the Urban Legend incident as a means for the relocation. Also, the lunarians despised the Earth and its life since they viewed it all as impure in comparison to themselves, they did not like relocating to a place like that.
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I already acknowledged the context as it was shown to me by you, the OP.
I just disagreeing with you on the specifics of what this means given the circumstances behind this is tied to interpretation of the evidence being used as well as other things.
Hmmm, while this is understandable, I also not getting that impression of them use everything in their arsenal to lifewipe ppl from the surface of Earth as there are different ways to life wipe as well.
We not given that much in depth outside of killing the beings on the surface of Earth and stuff.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,211
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- #175
No, you aren't. You're deliberately ignoring a line that COMPLETELY changes the meaning of that passage. Disagree all you like but I won't tolerate bullshit like this.
I'd also like to point out that the discussion of whether or not Sagume was willing to go through with the plan is irrelevant because the opening of LoLK shows that one method of purifying the earth (a giant robot) is already happening, which is why the protagonists take part in the story anyways; We can't say Sagume would've hesitated in killing everything on the planet when she was literally already in the process of doing that.
The method doesn't matter. Sagume was willing to kill everyone on the planet regardless. It could've been one by one or with a giant explosion, but the point is that she is willing to kill for the sake of the Lunar Capital, which proves she'd be willing to kill Kaguya. This is purely semantics
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I do not appreciate the fact you say I trying to nitpick the context/evidence when I was trying to read the context in full.
I will give the evidence a full reread, but I do think this accusing tone is what create the toxicity with ppl that does disagree with you and other Touhou support.
Again, I will appreciate if you can calm down and not try to accuse me of specific things when ppl are guilty of nitpicking and other things especially over the evidence being read as well.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #177
Do you not realize that taking something out of context and by extension changing its meaning is gonna garner a negative response regardless of who you do it to? You're trying to present this as "she wasn't serious about it because she doesn't want to kill anyone", when the full line is more accurately "she wasn't serious about it because her society would've preferred to go back to the moon". This is disingenuous and gives a false impression of the feat's context to anyone reading your posts, which again, I don't particularly like since upgrades like this are enough of an uphill battle as it is. Don't make my hobby more difficult than it needs to be.
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I did not imply this at all as I say this.
I was literally quoting from the text you show me.
You are misunderstanding me and for once, you did jump on that conclusion.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #179
Yes. You are quoting the text. In a very selective way that implies a conclusion that is not in the full text. That is the very definition of taking something out of context.
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Right, so I've just consulted Saikou and gotten a wildly different answer.
And it is at this point that I realize that this topic is so far out of my depth that I don't think I can make a fair and informed judgement. I will refrain from commenting further.
And it is at this point that I realize that this topic is so far out of my depth that I don't think I can make a fair and informed judgement. I will refrain from commenting further.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #181
Huh, alright. Thanks for offering to help, anyways.
tfw saikou makes a half second appearance in a touhou thread before disappearing for several months for like the 4th time
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It is more like me nitpicking the text in question in order to understand the text and here is her own plan.
I have to say this, the plan of this Sagume make things interesting.
Also, further more, I have to uploaded the scans on Imgur to see if I can understand this correctly.
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Also I didn’t even mention my conclusion since I am making my own thoughts regarding the evidence you shown to me and in order to fully understand what is going on exactly.
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Reading over all this I think a Possibly works
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Yeah, as that was the compromise to begin with.
We are currently waiting on @Confluctor ’s opinion on the evidence shown and see how this will go.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #186
I mean you could've read like 2 lines further than you did and seen the full context. It's not like it's hiding or is in another passage or whatever. This isn't a hobby where you can take a single sentence in isolation and build your thoughts about a verse around that, context is always important.
Also yeah we're just waiting on Confluctor here, no rush.
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I am aware of context being always important.
Also, this always applies for every fictional verse as well since again, please do not attempt to accuse me of taking things out of context when I trying to read the context.
Me quoting a specific line of text when I haven’t finished what I say can been considering rather disingenuous and sour my mood.
Also being online is technically not a job necessarily, but your own free time.
Please understand I have free time currently as of right now.
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I have made some corrections as my grammar and sentence is off, but other than that, I only give off a compromise and that is it.
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"In an old thread a made we conclude that feats of taking any amount of damge and then lossing that damage off-screen should only be taken as a Regenerationn feat if the characters in question have already shown or later show regenerative capabilities."
Did you miss this part? We are talking about characters with already accepted Mid Godly feats being upgraded to high godly here.
Anyway, if everyone agrees with possibly we should just go with that already and close this.
ÆONS
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We could do that, but we'd also be discourteous to Confluctor who has yet to make a response to the new evidence. We should just wait for them to speak. Also GN.
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I didn’t miss this part at all. I am aware of that part being added.
Edit: Again, it was never shown to being the case so.
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Following
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In full context, we never show them taking damage from information manipulation and it was erasing them to say the least. There is still the burden of proof requirement. Please do not overlook that statement as well
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #194
Agreed. Bit of a dick move to not let Confluctor comment in spite of the general consensus.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,211
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- #196
Bump ig
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If I don't comment by Saturday, just go with what other staff have accepted.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,211
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- #199
Not that it means much at this point, but bump.
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