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Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

This is literally Kingdom Hearts at this point with "every world is his own universe and there is galaxies of them" shenanigans
 
One of the next 4 star characters called Luka has Asta's from Black Clover Seiyu

So this game has double Asta, which means I will change the voice to japanese 🫂
 
So, if what @Furudo_Erika is truth, I will explain what I understand from all the information gathered until now, correct me if I am wrong, I am not very good about the Tier 2 and Tier 1 stuff

The Imaginary Tree and the Sea of Quanta are two multiverses, a single universe in these two multiverses is inifinite in size, I remember it was Welt or Himeko who stated that, and the universe has an infinite amount of galaxies due to the universe being infinite in size, Himeko or/and Welt stated that a galaxy is infinite in size too, and the galaxies are big enough to be universe sized and they had their own separated space-times, and a single galaxy has "countless worlds" or countless universes within itself?

So an Overlord is 2-A or Low 1-C due to destroying an entire universe in the Imaginary Tree?
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
So, if what @Furudo_Erika is truth, I will explain what I understand from all the information gathered until now, correct me if I am wrong, I am not very good about the Tier 2 and Tier 1 stuff

The Imaginary Tree and the Sea of Quanta are two multiverses, a single universe in these two multiverses is inifinite in size, I remember it was Welt or Himeko who stated that, and the universe has an infinite amount of galaxies due to the universe being infinite in size, Himeko or/and Welt stated that a galaxy is infinite in size too, and the galaxies are big enough to be universe sized and they had their own separated space-times, and a single galaxy has "countless worlds" or countless universes within itself?

So an Overlord is 2-A or Low 1-C due to destroying an entire universe in the Imaginary Tree?
Click to expand...
I guess.

I'm moreso for Low 1-C, as the Chinese text mentions something used for uncountable sets, as:

"It cannot be "countless" in a finite sense, as the word for that is "无数“, which is basically used for a large amount of something which is too much, although still finite, to count. (So it cannot be 2-B) Nor can it be just be simply infinite...as that is 无限. (So, 2-A also doesn't match up).

In fact, "countably infinite" in Chinese is "可数无限", and "uncountably infinite" is "不可数无限"
So again, "不可数" explicitly refers to the uncountability of an uncountable set." (Which would be Low 1-C)

Also if it WAS countable, they would have used "可胜数的世界", NOT "不可胜数的世界"; as that then refers to a countable set.
 
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So that means an Overlord is really Low 1-C, right? So how many times above the baseline Low 1-C are they then?

Also, is my interpretation about the overall Hoyoverse's cosmology with the information you gave to us is correct is there something wrong?
 
So, the scaling would be something like that:

Aeons >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emanators = Marshal and six generals (Jing Yuan, Yukong, Fu Xuan and others) = Lord Ravagers >> Overlords = Low 1-C?

Wow, this escalated very quickly
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
So, the scaling would be something like that:

Aeons >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emanators = Marshal and six generals (Jing Yuan, Yukong, Fu Xuan and others) = Lord Ravagers >> Overlords = Low 1-C?

Wow, this escalated very quickly
Click to expand...
Well, mark off Emanators as they do range in power...A LOT.
In fact, Lord Ravagers are the Emanators of Nanook.

The top in the Genius Society are Emanators of Nous; this would include Zandar, Elias, and Herta, among some others.

The History Fictionologists are Emanators of Mythus.

And I'm pretty sure I read Aha makes random ass people Emanators because..."lol". Literally, just for the fun of it.
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
So, if what @Furudo_Erika is truth, I will explain what I understand from all the information gathered until now, correct me if I am wrong, I am not very good about the Tier 2 and Tier 1 stuff

The Imaginary Tree and the Sea of Quanta are two multiverses, a single universe in these two multiverses is inifinite in size, I remember it was Welt or Himeko who stated that, and the universe has an infinite amount of galaxies due to the universe being infinite in size, Himeko or/and Welt stated that a galaxy is infinite in size too, and the galaxies are big enough to be universe sized and they had their own separated space-times, and a single galaxy has "countless worlds" or countless universes within itself?

So an Overlord is 2-A or Low 1-C due to destroying an entire universe in the Imaginary Tree?
Click to expand...
I have a feeling this is the case, which make the cosmology kinda weird.

Universe (contain) Infinite galaxy, which in turn each galaxy (contain) infinite universal construct that's probably 2-A.

Which mean, despite called a "Universe," it's actually a "Multiverse" that contain another "Multiverse"
 
Abstractly_a_Protagonist said:
I have a feeling this is the case, which make the cosmology kinda weird.

Which mean, despite called a "Universe," it's actually a "Multiverse" that contain another "Multiverse"
Click to expand...
"Universe" here refers moreso to "reality", rather than a single spacetime structure.

In fact Hoyoverse makes a very clear distinction between "universe", "bubble universe", and "The Universe"; with a capital U.

With "The Universe" being akin to the entire Imaginary Tree.



"Universe (contain) Infinite galaxy, which in turn each galaxy (contain) infinite universal construct that's probably 2-A."

It's actually Low 1-C, as the Chinese text states there's an uncountable number of them; not a countable set (which then it WOULD be 2-A if it was countable. But it isn't)

This would make the "galaxy" have Aleph-1 leaves (Low 1-C), not just Aleph-0 (2-A)
 
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Furudo_Erika said:
"Universe" here refers moreso to "reality", rather than a single spacetime structure.

In fact Hoyoverse makes a very clear distinction between "universe", "bubble universe", and "The Universe"; with a capital U.

With "The Universe" being akin to the entire Imaginary Tree.



"Universe (contain) Infinite galaxy, which in turn each galaxy (contain) infinite universal construct that's probably 2-A."

It's actually Low 1-C, as the Chinese text states there's an uncountable number of them; not a countable set (which then it WOULD be 2-A if it was countable. But it isn't)

This would make the "galaxy" have Aleph-1 leaves (Low 1-C), not just Aleph-0 (2-A)
Click to expand...
I really should polish my "Hoyoverse terminology"

909445263595274280.webp
 
FB-IMG-1676431572602

There's also this piece from HI3, which likened the stars to entire universes.
It is also called "a galaxy of parallel universes", as all the "stars" make it look like a galaxy.
 
Actually, that reminds me...Cosmic Juggernaut.
IS the Astral Express the Cosmic Juggernaut? Because some of the lore adds up to that.

1: The Cosmic Juggernaut is a train-type Divine Key used to traverse between universes:
Hell, it even looks VERY similar to the Express
so-the-train-in-star-rail-is-cosmic-juggernaut-v0-bv6avwusacs81
0003

Also note the line: "I have a hunch, that the 2nd Divine Key you've made will be recreated one day...by just the right person and for something we can't ever imagine yet..."
Is this taking about Himeko when she repaired the train in HSR?

2: The Cosmic Juggernaut was heavily damaged, but "wasn't beyond repair":
lhqt8p925li81


3: Himeko found the Express deserted and heavily damaged, and then repaired it.
Screenshot-22


I also found something VERY interesting:
Screenshot-21

Apparently Akivili walked among mortals; adventuring, fighting, and celebrating with them. And that they lived a similar life to mortals.
This...sounds nothing like any of the other Aeons. As "Aeons" don't have a physical form; as they are philosophical concepts.

But Akivili? It states that they basically lived among mortals.
Which begs the question...is Akivili an actual Aeon?
 
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Furudo_Erika said:
Apparently Akivili walked among mortals; adventuring, fighting, and celebrating with them. And that they lived a similar life to mortals.
This...sounds nothing like any of the other Aeons. As "Aeons" don't have a physical form; as they are philosophical concepts.

But Akivili? It states that they basically lived among mortals.
Which begs the question...is Akivili an actual Aeon?
Click to expand...
Well, I remember somewhere that Aeons was once mortals that ascended to become Aeon.
Most Aeon personality are dictated by their concept (I think?), except Akivili whom has interest on mortal.

Also, Nous was once a computer that "somehow" transcend to become Aeon. That's a point of interest.
image.png


A theory of mine...
Is it possible that Aether and Lumine is Akivili? They travel from one world to another, live and connect with mortal of the planet they visited, then move to another star.
 
Abstractly_a_Protagonist said:
Well, I remember somewhere that Aeons was once mortals that ascended to become Aeon.
Most Aeon personality are dictated by their concept (I think?), except Akivili whom has interest on mortal.

Also, Nous was once a computer that "somehow" transcend to become Aeon. That's a point of interest.
image.png


A theory of mine...
Is it possible that Aether and Lumine is Akivili? They travel from one world to another, live and connect with mortal of the planet they visited, then move to another star.
Click to expand...
That's the thing though...Akivili went missing after an accident.
Whether they died or not is unknown.
 
Also.
Himeko: "Upon ascending to Aeon-hood, that being gains power over the Paths, free to choose the allocation of imaginary energy however they wish, while suffering the restrictions of the "Primum Mobile."

Akivili was already restricted by Primum Mobile at this time, so they apparently already entered "Aeonhood".
So they weren't a mortal when walking among those who were.
 
Kisaragi_Megumi said:
That's insane, but knowing how strict our site are, we need more fuel to add furthermore for the tier 1 or otherwise the rejection are likely going to be happening
Click to expand...
Yes, I also know how strict this site is when about to Tier 1 stuff, but even if Low 1-C was somehow denied, I think 2-A has a very good chance of passing if that happens.

Since the Universe, an leaf of Imaginary Tree, contains infinite galaxies, and a single galaxy is infinite in size, and each galaxy contains infinite universes or an 2-A structure

I am talking like this if the Low 1-C is rejected, we could use it to be at least 2-A
 
Furudo_Erika said:
It would actually be 2-A (or even Low 1-C, which I will get to why soon), as the characters used for "countless worlds" is "不可胜数的世界"
2023-05-25-0bv-Kleki

Or in English:
"The untamed imaginary energy surges endlessly through space-time vasculature, and forms at its tips "galaxies" that humans can understand — in other words, countless worlds."

As for why this may be Low 1-C...well.
"不可数" is what is use to describe how large "uncountable" is in an uncountable set. Hell, even the word for "uncountable set" is "不可数集".

Now you may ask "what about the "胜""? Well, that's a bit tricky to explain. But it may mean "able to do" in this context.
So: "不可胜" may mean "unable to do", as 不可 means "cannot".
数 means "to count/to number"
So in all, 不可胜数 may mean "unable to count/number"; uncountable.

Which again, 不可数 is what is used to describe the "uncountability" of an uncountable set. So, 不可胜数的世界 may mean "uncountable worlds".

Now it cannot be "countless" in a finite sense, as the word for that is "无数“, which is basically used for a large amount of something which is too much, although still finite, to count. Nor can it be just be simply infinite...as that is 无限.

In fact, "countably infinite" in Chinese is "可数无限", and "uncountably infinite" is "不可数无限"
So again, "不可数" explicitly refers to the uncountability of an uncountable set.
Click to expand...
Also here I explained it cannot be "countless" in a finite sense (so 2-C to 2-B is out for damn sure), nor simply countably "infinite". (Which makes 2-A not really work either)
But uncountably infinite. (Which would be Low 1-C)

I mean, "不可数" is even used like this:
Screenshot-23

It is for uncountable sets, and uncountable nouns.

So "countless" here, does not refer to any actual numbers.
Instead, it means "countless" as in "you literally cannot apply a number to it"; this is also why it is used for uncountable nouns as you cannot apply a specific number to them.

And because cannot apply a number to it, 1-1 correspondence cannot be used for it.
Which 1-1 correspondence is a property of countable sets, but uncountable sets cannot be put into a 1-1 correspondence.

And because it is referring to a set of "世界", it would be referring an uncountable set of "世界"as 世界 is modified by 不可胜数.
 
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So a leaf on the Imaginary Tree is a infinite sized Universe and in that Universe contains uncountable Galaxies which are infinite in size.

Did I get that right?

Edit: Actually, someone said the translation of "Galaxy" in CN is actually translated to a leaf of the Imaginary Tree.

So a leaf on the Imaginary Tree is a infinite sized Universe and in that infinite sized Universe contains uncountable leaves which are infinite in size.

So one leaf has an uncountable leaves stacked inside of it infinitely?
 
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Aernasilver said:
So a leaf on the Imaginary Tree is a infinite sized Universe and in that Universe contains uncountable Galaxies which are infinite in size.

Did I get that right?
Click to expand...
No no, the "galaxy" is referred to uncountable leaves.

Each leaf is only Low 2-C itself.
Which from how it is described, each "world" you warp to on the Express is an entirely different spacetime; aka...another leaf.
 
Yes, but in a way you may not expect.
Each "leaf" also functions as MWI, meaning there's infinite parallel timelines inside each leaf.
 
Which the site treats MWI as 2-B to 2-A typically (depending)

Though I personally disagree with that.
Since the irl theory of MWI would actually be Low 1-C at least as it IS uncountable according to physics. With Everett's MWI actually being High 1-B as it explicitly involves infinite-dimensional Hilbert space
 
Furudo_Erika said:
Which the site treats MWI as 2-B to 2-A typically (depending)

Though I personally disagree with that.
Since the irl theory of MWI would actually be Low 1-C at least as it IS uncountable according to physics. With Everett's MWI actually being High 1-B as it explicitly involves infinite-dimensional Hilbert space
Click to expand...
You are equivocating,This worldview does not have a multiverse at all. You have not seriously understood this worldview!
Why are galaxies infinite?
 
Unqver said:
You are equivocating,This worldview does not have a multiverse at all. You have not seriously understood this worldview!
Why are galaxies infinite?
Click to expand...
The Imaginary Tree and the Sea of Quanta are two multiverses, a single universe in these two multiverses is inifinite in size, I remember it was Welt or Himeko who stated that, and the universe has an infinite amount of galaxies due to the universe being infinite in size, Himeko or/and Welt stated that a galaxy is infinite in size too, and the galaxies are big enough to be universe sized and they had their own separated space-times, and a single galaxy has "countless worlds" or countless universes within itself.

↑
Read here

Also the fact that "galaxies" here do NOT refer to an actual galaxy, but a collective group of leaves on the Imaginary Tree; aka universes.
This has been stated MULTIPLE times and confirmed through Chinese text as the English localization is full of mistranslations.

This is ALSO stated in the Data Bank under "Imaginary Tree (Theory)"

If a "galaxy" represents a collection of leaves on the Imaginary Tree, than each "star" in said "galaxy" is it's own universe.

And this isn't unique to Star Rail. Hoyoverse makes this analogy ALL THE TIME.
 
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Furudo_Erika said:
The Imaginary Tree and the Sea of Quanta are two multiverses, a single universe in these two multiverses is inifinite in size, I remember it was Welt or Himeko who stated that, and the universe has an infinite amount of galaxies due to the universe being infinite in size, Himeko or/and Welt stated that a galaxy is infinite in size too, and the galaxies are big enough to be universe sized and they had their own separated space-times, and a single galaxy has "countless worlds" or countless universes within itself.

↑
Read here

Also the fact that "galaxies" here do NOT refer to an actual galaxy, but a collective group of leaves on the Imaginary Tree; aka universes.
This has been stated MULTIPLE times and confirmed through Chinese text as the English localization is full of mistranslations.

This is ALSO stated in the Data Bank under "Imaginary Tree (Theory)"
Click to expand...
1658bc6e7ab865de29f0cbfd671f7f13.jpg

Galaxies can be destroyed by stars, which is called infinity.
 
Unqver said:
1658bc6e7ab865de29f0cbfd671f7f13.jpg

Galaxies can be destroyed by stars, which is called infinity.
Click to expand...
Mate, I can't read Chinese.
I only know the grammar and I am too lazy to look up those words for translation.

Also, you miss what I was saying.
Hoyoverse uses the same word for actual galaxies and these "galaxies". So it can be a bit hard to discern which form is being used without context...and in the context I am talking about, it's the latter of the two.

Which again, the Imaginary Tree in the Data Bank explains this.
 
Furudo_Erika said:
↑
Mate, I can't read Chinese.
I only know the grammar and I am too lazy to look up those words for translation.

Also, you miss what I was saying.
Hoyoverse uses the same word for actual galaxies and these "galaxies". So it can be a bit hard to discern which form is being used without context...and in the context I am talking about, it's the latter of the two.

Click to expand...
In fact,inhonkaiThere are many descriptions that stars can destroy galaxies, if you want to say tree and seas.They have been identified in Chinese as only A single universe。
 
Unqver said:
In fact,inhonkaiThere are many descriptions that stars can destroy galaxies, if you want to say tree and seas.They have been identified in Chinese as only A single universe。
Click to expand...
Apparently you missed the entire thing on how the worlds in HSR are separated "like leaves are separated by air" (inferring each world in the "galaxy" is an entirely different leaf as they do have their own spacetime...which again, are both stated in the Imaginary Tree in the Data Bank)

But, I don't feel like repeating all that again.
 
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