Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I think we just need to wait for 1.1 to get an really solid scaling for characters regarding the main cast during Xianzhou Luofu Arc, but by the spoilers I saw, at least one of the main cast will get stronger or a power-up, and this character is Dan Heng, he will get an Humanoid Dragon Form that resemble Bailu's appearance, and due to the Arc being about The Hunt, the Traiblazer will likely get a blessing/power-up from Lan

 

[Mand21]

So... basically everyone in the base trio from HSR can solo the entirety of DBZ up to Namek Saga, maybe even Freeza Saga?
And Welt solos everything before DBS, including DBZ filler? With High 1-C space manip, he'd even solo all of DBS and all of the fanfic of Dragonball that I know of.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

But I do have one question...
When would the Low 2-C key be applied to TB?

When they enter Xianzhou...or whenever they got their latest power-up?
Which would be whenever they got their fire form/lance during the fight with Cocolia (which it is also implied that Qlipoth blessed the TB (also the fact you actually see Qlipoth gazing at the TB; like how it is stated in the lore how Aeons gaze upon some who trend on their Path); which I'm pretty sure is how they got the power of Preservation in the first place)
Also the fact, after the fight with Cocolia, the Express basically went to Xianzhou immediately afterwards, so there isn't really any power increase after the fight.

Unless they get a significant power boost before the Lord Ravager fight (and this is only if the cast isn't already comparable to the generals who are equal to Lord Ravagers), then I don't see any reason why they would be more powerful just by simply entering Xianzhou after defeating Cocolia.

If the latter, then it should also apply to everyone (including Bronya and Seele), as they fought against Cocolia as well with TB.
If so, then everyone would be Low 2-C with TB scaling a bit above them.

So...something like:
Everyone: Low 2-C (Fought alongside TB during the fight with Cocolia)
TB: At least Low 2-C (Stronger after receiving Qlipoth's blessing and gaze, those who draw the gazes of Aeons tend to get a power boost. Defeated Cocolia after nearly being killed by her prior to gaining the power of Preservation)
?

I'm not sure, mate.

Assuming anyone that caught the gaze of an Aeon become Low 2-C is quite shakky in my opinion. And if we do go through this route, I remember Trailblazer also caught the gaze of Nanook when he protected March from Doomdays Beast's beam.

The initial scaling reasoning by fighting The Lord Ravager (If we do fight them) is much more solid.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So... basically everyone in the base trio from HSR can solo the entirety of DBZ up to Namek Saga, maybe even Freeza Saga?
And Welt solos everything before DBS, including DBZ filler? With High 1-C space manip, he'd even solo all of DBS and all of the fanfic of Dragonball that I know of.

Scratch that, they even solo Genshit, that's big enough for me lmfao

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Assuming anyone that caught the gaze of an Aeon become Low 2-C

That's not what I am saying. It's just a power increase of an unknown extent.

What I am saying though...if the cast is already comparable to the generals, they would already be Low 2-C.
As it is stated that the six generals === Lord Ravagers.

Hell, they don't even need to fight a Lord Ravager at all to be Low 2-C if they are already comparable to the generals.
Three of the six, you already met; Jing Yuan (whose banner is going on rn), Yukong, and Fu Xuan.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

What I am saying though...if the cast is already comparable to the generals, they would already be Low 2-C.
As it is stated that the six generals === Lord Ravagers.

Hell, they don't even need to fight a Lord Ravager at all to be Low 2-C if they are already comparable to the generals.
Three of the six, you already met; Jing Yuan (whose banner is going on rn), Yukong, and Fu Xuan.

That is fine reasoning, we also have that Welt scan so this might be fine.

Hm, let's see how patch 1.1 will go.

 

[Aernasilver]

I'm in no rush to make the profiles. The game is new.

I still need the Galaxies = Imaginary Tree Leaves translation though as that is the crux for the massive upgrades.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Question:

Why haven't you guys merged Honkai Impact, Genshin Impact, Star Rail, and Zenless Zone Zero into a single verse page? I mean the company literally rebranded themselves into the perfect title for the verse. Hoyoverse.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Question:

Why haven't you guys merged Honkai Impact, Genshin Impact, Star Rail, and Zenless Zone Zero into a single verse page? I mean the company literally rebranded themselves into the perfect title for the verse. Hoyoverse.

For a similar reason we don't just merge every DC or Marvel verse into one page. They're all pretty big on their own, all with different verse mechanics and cosmology from one another, and separating them would be most convenient.

 

[Giannysmag]

For a similar reason we don't just merge every DC or Marvel verse into one page. They're all pretty big on their own, and separating them would be most convenient.

This is one reason. I personally also don't see a reason to merge GI and HI3 since they are basically completely separate verses story wise. None of the HI3 cast appear in genshin or vice versa, it has a completely separate power system and it doesnt even take place in the same planet as genshin

 

[Sir_Ovens]

This is one reason. I personally also don't see a reason to merge GI and HI3 since they are basically completely separate verses story wise. None of the HI3 cast appear in genshin or vice versa, it has a completely separate power system and it doesnt even take place in the same planet as genshin

Doesn't a Genshin character appear in Honkai?

Also you can do the Fate thing and make a Hoyoverse verse page and link the individual verses there.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Doesn't a Genshin character appear in Honkai?

Not really, it's one of those weird non canon crossovers

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Do you guys forgot about Otto seeing Dvalin in his panel during the Nagazora Arc?

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

We could make a verse page "Hoyoverse" that umbrella all the "verse installment," but that require each supporter of each installment to come together and work it out together. But first we need to get the profile and the scaling for HSR validated, then we can worry about making the verse page that encompass everything (HI3, GI, HSR, and ZZZ).

It would be great if we can come to that length though.

 

[Giannysmag]

Also you can do the Fate thing and make a Hoyoverse verse page and link the individual verses there.

i actually kinda like that idea

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

ZZZ

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Do you guys forgot about Otto seeing Dvalin in his panel during the Nagazora Arc?

I only played HI3 up to HoR debut.
But is this what you meant? Found it in internet.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Yes, I was talking about that scene

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Yes, I was talking about that scene

Yeah, and that scene is canon to HI3.
It confirms Genshin is a leaf on the Imaginary Tree; both HI3 and Genshin have the same cosmology.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah, and that scene is canon to HI3.
It confirms Genshin is a leaf on the Imaginary Tree; both HI3 and Genshin have the same cosmology.

Yeah I suggested a Hoyoverse page because Genshin will likely scale to Honkai in the future, since Traveller has been speculated to be a Honkai-related character.

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Yeah I suggested a Hoyoverse page because Genshin will likely scale to Honkai in the future, since Traveller has been speculated to be a Honkai-related character.

Does it have something to do with Project ARK or something from HI3?
I heard a lot of theories about that.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Yeah I suggested a Hoyoverse page because Genshin will likely scale to Honkai in the future, since Traveller has been speculated to be a Honkai-related character.

I mean those are just ultimately speculations. Nothing in the lore seems to even solidly imply it has lore connections to Honkai beyond it being in the same multiverse and non canon crossovers.

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Oh, I FORGOT about this bit of dialogue:

Himeko: Welt is still trying to find a way back home to a planet that I've never heard of. However, it seems he's more interested in going on adventures. It's been awhile since I've heard him mention going home.
Himeko: The most popular is probably the Cosmos Tree theory, proposed by Zandar, Emanator of Erudition and the first member of the Genius Society. He compared the galaxy to an enormous imaginary tree, with its leaves being individual star systems.

And now the "Imaginary Tree (Theory)" in the Data Bank:

The Imaginary Tree is a theory of the universe widely accepted by the modern scientific community.

This theory describes the various worlds existing in different space-time as a tree-like structure. Every branch is a specific path along which worlds might exist, with every leaf being the marks these worlds have made along the parameter of time. The crown of the tree remains in a dynamic state as it absorbs the masterless Imaginary Energy from the space-time vasculature of the trunk. New shoots grow, withered leaves fall, and endless births and deaths occur among the countless universes... Describing the universe's structure as a "tree" may be an attitude that views the Imaginary Tree as a life form.

Before the theory of Imaginary Tree was put forward, the universe had been addressed as "a void and indiscernible object" because of its undetectable nature. After the theory was developed, people would visualize its principle using imagination: The untamed imaginary energy surges endlessly through space-time vasculature, and forms at its tips "galaxies" that humans can understand — in other words, countless worlds. The worlds are separated from each other just as leaves are separated by air, between which are unknown imaginary domains that are nigh impossible to traverse.

The Intelligentsia Guild had once thought that Harald Punch, the 2nd member of the Genius Society, was the first to propose the Imaginary Tree origin theory. After multiple assessments on the influence of the History Fictionologists, the scientific community now commonly accepts Zandar One Kuwabara as the person to have proposed it.

What do you make of this?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Zandar One Kuwabara

Excuse me?

 

[Furudo_Erika]

I'll elaborate a bit more on this later (as I can't post an entire thing rn), but:

From how it is worded and with other things from the Data Bank (Like "Interstellar Travel"), it sounds like these "worlds" are their own spacetime.

As the worlds are quote: "are separated from each other just as leaves are separated by air", and that "between which are unknown imaginary domains that are nigh impossible to traverse."

Which is actually what the Trailblaze is for; traveling to these worlds, and the Astral Express is what makes it easy to travel to the worlds as it would be "nigh impossible" otherwise due to the imaginary domains between the worlds:

("universe" here is referring to the entire imaginary tree)

Note: These also used "世界" for "world" in both Imaginary Tree (Theory) and Interstellar Travel; so they may refer to the same thing.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

So, long short story, it is something similar to Dragon Ball's macrocosm, which a single universe can contain several separated universe sized space-times, I am right?

So HSR universe contain within itself several different space-times that are big enough to be considered a "world"/universe?

 

[Furudo_Erika]

So, long short story, it is something similar to Dragon Ball's macrocosm, which a single universe can contain several separated universe sized space-times, I am right?

So HSR universe contain within itself several different space-times that are big enough to be considered a "world"/universe?

Something like that, I guess...but not really?

Lets break this down:
"The worlds are separated from each other just as leaves are separated by air, between which are unknown imaginary domains that are nigh impossible to traverse."
This implies that these "worlds" (aka, "世界), are entire leaves, and that these "世界" are "separated from each other just as leaves are separated by air".
So "warping" to another world, is akin to jumping to another leaf on the imaginary tree.

Which makes a lot of sense , BECAUSE of the "imaginary domains". Which are stated to exist between the "air" between the leaves.
Which the Astral Express is able to traverse as that's what the Trailblaze is all about: "reaching the end of the Tree of Existence"; aka...the Imaginary Tree.

 

[Furudo_Erika]

This implies that these "worlds" (aka, "世界), are entire leaves, and that these "世界" are "separated from each other just as leaves are separated by air".
So "warping" to another world, is akin to jumping to another leaf on the imaginary tree.

Funnily enough, this may be Immeasurable travel speed for the Astral Express if each world is its own spacetime; which the Express would be jumping out of.
So if spacetime is a linear line, then the Express would basically YEET itself off that line.

 

[Aernasilver]

So does this change anything or is it just more justification for Low 2-C?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yeah I suggested a Hoyoverse page because Genshin will likely scale to Honkai in the future, since Traveller has been speculated to be a Honkai-related character.

Heavily doubt that tbh lel

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

So, long short story, it is something similar to Dragon Ball's macrocosm, which a single universe can contain several separated universe sized space-times, I am right?

So HSR universe contain within itself several different space-times that are big enough to be considered a "world"/universe?

Oh, I FORGOT about this bit of dialogue:

Himeko: Welt is still trying to find a way back home to a planet that I've never heard of. However, it seems he's more interested in going on adventures. It's been awhile since I've heard him mention going home.
Himeko: The most popular is probably the Cosmos Tree theory, proposed by Zandar, Emanator of Erudition and the first member of the Genius Society. He compared the galaxy to an enormous imaginary tree, with its leaves being individual star systems.

And now the "Imaginary Tree (Theory)" in the Data Bank:

The Imaginary Tree is a theory of the universe widely accepted by the modern scientific community.

This theory describes the various worlds existing in different space-time as a tree-like structure. Every branch is a specific path along which worlds might exist, with every leaf being the marks these worlds have made along the parameter of time. The crown of the tree remains in a dynamic state as it absorbs the masterless Imaginary Energy from the space-time vasculature of the trunk. New shoots grow, withered leaves fall, and endless births and deaths occur among the countless universes... Describing the universe's structure as a "tree" may be an attitude that views the Imaginary Tree as a life form.

Before the theory of Imaginary Tree was put forward, the universe had been addressed as "a void and indiscernible object" because of its undetectable nature. After the theory was developed, people would visualize its principle using imagination: The untamed imaginary energy surges endlessly through space-time vasculature, and forms at its tips "galaxies" that humans can understand — in other words, countless worlds. The worlds are separated from each other just as leaves are separated by air, between which are unknown imaginary domains that are nigh impossible to traverse.

The Intelligentsia Guild had once thought that Harald Punch, the 2nd member of the Genius Society, was the first to propose the Imaginary Tree origin theory. After multiple assessments on the influence of the History Fictionologists, the scientific community now commonly accepts Zandar One Kuwabara as the person to have proposed it.

What do you make of this?

I'm rather confused on how to interpret this.

Is this saying a Galaxy is Imaginary Tree and at least a 2-C structure?

 

[Furudo_Erika]

I'm rather confused on how to interpret this.

Is this saying a Galaxy is Imaginary Tree and at least a 2-C structure?

It would actually be 2-A (or even Low 1-C, which I will get to why soon), as the characters used for "countless worlds" is "不可胜数的世界"

Or in English:
"The untamed imaginary energy surges endlessly through space-time vasculature, and forms at its tips "galaxies" that humans can understand — in other words, countless worlds."

As for why this may be Low 1-C...well.
"不可数" is what is use to describe how large "uncountable" is in an uncountable set. Hell, even the word for "uncountable set" is "不可数集".

Now you may ask "what about the "胜""? Well, that's a bit tricky to explain. But it may mean "able to do" in this context.
So: "不可胜" may mean "unable to do", as 不可 means "cannot".
数 means "to count/to number"
So in all, 不可胜数 may mean "unable to count/number"; uncountable.

Which again, 不可数 is what is used to describe the "uncountability" of an uncountable set. So, 不可胜数的世界 may mean "uncountable worlds".

Now it cannot be "countless" in a finite sense, as the word for that is "无数“, which is basically used for a large amount of something which is too much, although still finite, to count. Nor can it be just be simply infinite...as that is 无限.

In fact, "countably infinite" in Chinese is "可数无限", and "uncountably infinite" is "不可数无限"
So again, "不可数" explicitly refers to the uncountability of an uncountable set.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

It would actually be 2-A (or even Low 1-C, which I will get to why soon), as the characters used for "countless worlds" is "不可胜数的世界"

Or in English:
"The untamed imaginary energy surges endlessly through space-time vasculature, and forms at its tips "galaxies" that humans can understand — in other words, countless worlds."

As for why this may be Low 1-C...well.
"不可数" is what is use to describe how large "uncountable" is in an uncountable set. Hell, even the word for "uncountable set" is "不可数集".

Now you may ask "what about the "胜""? Well, that's a bit tricky to explain. But it may mean "able to do" in this context.
So: "不可胜" may mean "unable to do", as 不可 means "cannot".
数 means "to count/to number"
So in all, 不可胜数 may mean "unable to count/number"; uncountable.

Which again, 不可数 is what is used to describe the "uncountability" of an uncountable set. So, 不可胜数的世界 may mean "uncountable worlds".

Now it cannot be "countless" in a finite sense, as the word for that is "无数“, which is basically used for a large amount of something which is too much, although still finite, to count. Nor can it be just be simply infinite...as that is 无限.

In fact, "countably infinite" in Chinese is "可数无限", and "uncountably infinite" is "不可数无限"
So again, "不可数" explicitly refers to the uncountability of an uncountable set.

Erika-chan, I appreciate the effort you are putting in the Chinese lecture.
Though, it still doesn't answer my initial question. Or perhaps I can assume you agree that "A single galaxy is equal to multiple space-time" in the universe of HSR?

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Is this saying a Galaxy is Imaginary Tree and at least a 2-C structure?

This?
Because I answered it in the first thing I said. Everything else is explaining how and why I came up with that.

A "galaxy" on the imaginary tree is either 2-A or Low 1-C. Possibly more Low 1-C as it uses what is used to describe an uncountable set.

As the text is describing a "galaxy" as "countless worlds"; 不可胜数的世界:

"...and forms at its tips "galaxies" that humans can understand — in other words, countless worlds."

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Also, as I previously mentioned: in the Theory Tree (Theory), they also used "世界" to describe different spacetimes which are separate "as like leafs are separate by air". So each 世界 is its own leaf.

So, think of 不可胜数的世界 as: "uncountable (as in uncountably infinite) leaves on the imaginary tree", and that gives you the size of a "galaxy".

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

This?
Because I answered it in the first thing I said. Everything else is explaining how and why I came up with that.

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Also, as I previously mentioned: in the Theory Tree (Theory), they also used "世界" to describe different spacetimes which are separate "as like leafs are separate by air". So each 世界 is its own leaf.

So, think of 不可胜数的世界 as: "uncountable (as in uncountably infinite) leaves on the imaginary tree", and that gives you the size of a "galaxy".

Which...would put a "galaxy" at Low 1-C, if it has uncountable leaves.
As that's the same as having an uncountably infinite number of different spacetimes; which is defaulted to Low 1-C

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Hm, I shall play the Devil Advocate and ask a question. How do we know the size of those space-time in the "Galaxy" qualify as universal construct? Since AFAIK, a realm of space-time that lack the minimum required size of "observable universe" are invalid to qualify as universe.

 

[Furudo_Erika]

Hm, I shall play the Devil Advocate and ask a question. How do we know the size of those space-time in the "Galaxy" qualify as universal construct? Since AFAIK, a realm of space-time that lack the minimum required size of "observable universe" are invalid to qualify as universe.

Dunno, but each world does have numberous stars in it, and there are researchers in each world that study space.
So, each world is definitely pretty large spatially.

Bad image, but there are multiple star systems in each world

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Dunno, but each world does have numberous stars in it, and there are researchers in each world that study space.
So, each world is definitely pretty large spatially.

Bad image, but there are multiple star systems in each world

Hm, I guess we shall bet that it is called "World/Universe."