Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Here

Whew.
4-C from the get-go lol
No wonder they are not scared of fighting Doomsday Beast in the Herta Space Station Arc.

 

[Chasekilleen]

So when is Kafuka releasing?

 

[Aernasilver]

Should be Information Manipulation type 2.

Aernasilver/Honkai Star Rail Profiles

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

So when is Kafuka releasing?

Should be in 1.2

 

[XRking]

If Aeons are 5-D, then what about Aha? Since he already reach the peak of the tree of existence/imaginary tree which is considered High 1-C tiering since transcends the imaginary tree is considered 1-B

The Masked Fools tell a parable of the birth of their beloved Aeon. When the Lord of Elation climbed to the highest branch on the Tree of Existence, they saw the cold and despicable void, the stars operating like machinery, and how the meaning of all things bows before nothingness.


They continued looking until they saw a baby fall to the ground and cry because it had been wronged. The Aeon burst into laughter, laughter so clear it tore through the cold universe and still reverberates through the universe today.

And IX is considered nothingness itself and beyond the tree of existence is nothingness
Wouldn’t that make:
Aeons(excluding IX): Low 1-C ~ High 1-C (5-D ~ 11-D)

IX: Possibly 1-B

 

[Le'garde273]

If Aeons are 5-D, then what about Aha? Since he already reach the peak of the tree of existence/imaginary tree which is considered High 1-C tiering since transcends the imaginary tree is considered 1-B

And IX is considered nothingness itself and beyond the tree of existence is nothingness
Wouldn’t that make:
Aeons(excluding IX): Low 1-C ~ High 1-C (5-D ~ 11-D)

IX: Possibly 1-B

May i know about the scan?

 

[XRking]

May i know about the scan?

Go to data book and click to Masked Fools-Elation ( since I can’t send the scan for some reasons...) and it said that Aha reaches the highest branch of the Tree of existense . The Tree of Imaginary Is considered High 1-C cosmology and the outer gods from gunz Girls is 1-B since they are above the Imaginary tree but if want further clarification about Aha reaching the highest branch of the tree of existence here is the scan:

“Even the organization like the Masked Fools sing praises of the Aeon. The Aeon will never give you up, never let you down, or run around and desert you. They will never make you cry, say goodbye, or tell a lie and hurt you."


- Ast Rickley, super popstar of the Epsilon XIl Galaxy


“The Masked Fools tell a parable of the birth of their beloved Aeon. When the Lord of Elation climbed to the highest branch on the Tree of Existence, they saw the cold and despicable void, the stars operating like machinery, and how the meaning of all things bows before nothingness.”


“They continued looking until they saw a baby fall to the ground and cry because it had been wronged. The Aeon burst into laughter, laughter so clear it tore through the cold universe and still reverberates through the universe today.”

 

[Aernasilver]

I don't think Aha transcended the Imaginary Tree. Aha just went to the top but is still in the same realm as the Tree.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

And IX is considered nothingness itself and beyond the tree of existence is nothingness

This is kinda stretching it that the void beyond the Tree is XI itself.
It's a good food for thoughts, but seemed farfetched to me.

Unless there's an implication that those void is the void of XI.

 

[XRking]

I don't think Aha transcended the Imaginary Tree. Aha just went to the top but is still in the same realm as the Tree.

I didn’t say that Aha Transcends the Tree of imaginary tree but yes, he did reach the peak

 

[XRking]

This is kinda stretching it that the void beyond the Tree is XI itself.
It's a good food for thoughts, but seemed farfetched to me.

Unless there's an implication that those void is the void of XI.

that’s why I put IX’s Tier at Possibly 1-B because like you said, It’s a bit far-fetched but somehow in the data book about IX implemented that even the Multiverse (Tree of existence) is destroyed he still lives because as long as nothingness exists he exists(NEP, Abstract Existence)

 

[Aernasilver]

I didn’t say that Aha Transcends the Tree of imaginary tree but yes, he did reach the peak

If Aeons are 5-D, then what about Aha? Since he already reach the peak of the tree of existence/imaginary tree which is considered High 1-C tiering since transcends the imaginary tree is considered 1-B

Isn't that what you were implying here? If I'm wrong then okay.

Also IX's AE is only a type 3 concept - a personal concept and not a universal one. So every time nothingness is mention it doesn't have to explicitly refer to IX.

 

[XRking]

I feel like after reading this 5-page CRT the HSR goes like this:

Imagery Tree/Tree of existence: High 1-C
Leaf of the Imagery tree: Low 2-C(each leaf have its own space-time continuum)
Emanator: 3-C ~ Low 2-C
Most characters below Emanator: 4-C
Stellar on Hunter : 5-B ~ 4-C, possibly higher
Aeons: High 1-C
the void/Nothingness beyond the tree of existence : possibly 1-B

 

[Aernasilver]

The Tree itself is High 1-C so anything on it like the leaves and branches are High 1-C.

Doesn't make sense for the body to be High 1-C and it's limbs be Low 2-C.

 

[XRking]

Isn't that what you were implying here? If I'm wrong then okay.

Also IX's AE is only a type 3 concept - a personal concept and not a universal one. So every time nothingness is mention it doesn't have to explicitly refer to IX.

The first one about aha or aeon yes, but as for IX part well I admittedly declared that it need more clarification especially about this phrase about IX in the data bank:

“The existence of Nihility is a mystery itself, their form enshrouded by layers of mist.


IX doesn't interact with the other Aeons. They believe that the ultimate fate of the multiverse is nothingness, and therefore, worthless.”

 

[XRking]

The Tree itself is High 1-C so anything on it like the leaves and branches are High 1-C.

Doesn't make sense for the body to be High 1-C and it's limbs be Low 2-C.

… the only reason why the tree of existence is a High 1-C cosmology because the Outer Gods from GG3 are 1-B since they are above the tree of existence

 

[Aernasilver]

No. The Tree is High 1-C because it sustain the Quantum Sea which is 11-D.

 

[XRking]

No. The Tree is High 1-C because it sustain the Quantum Sea which is 11-D.

Well at least we can proof that Aeons are High 1-C beings since Aha has reach the peak of the Tree of existence

 

[Aernasilver]

Yes.

 

[XRking]

Current tiering:

Imagery Tree/Tree of existence: High 1-C

Leaf of the Imagery tree: Low 2-C(each leaf have its own space-time continuum)

Emanator: 3-C ~ Low 2-C

Most characters below Emanator: 4-C

Stellaron Hunter : 5-B ~ 4-C, possibly higher

Aeons: High 1-C

the void/Nothingness beyond the tree of existence : possibly 1-B ( least needed)

 

[Aernasilver]

This is the general discussion thread so we shouldn't be closing it as it's a place to discuss the verse.

 

[XRking]

This is the general discussion thread so we shouldn't be closing it as it's a place to discuss the verse.

kk…

 

[XRking]

Can someone try to ask a staff if High 1-C Aeons are acceptable?

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I feel like after reading this 5-page CRT the HSR goes like this:

Imagery Tree/Tree of existence: High 1-C
Leaf of the Imagery tree: Low 2-C(each leaf have its own space-time continuum)
Emanator: 3-C ~ Low 2-C
Most characters below Emanator: 4-C
Stellaron Hunter : 5-B ~ 4-C, possibly higher
Aeons: High 1-C
the void/Nothingness beyond the tree of existence : possibly 1-B

Actually, the Emanators/Lord Ravagers are High 1-C, since they are stronger than the Overlords, who can destroy entire leaves of the Imaginary Tree, meaning they were damaging an 11-D structure

The Stellaron Hunters for now are 4-C, but are likely much stronger than that, since Kafka fought against the Trailblazer, Welt and 7th March during the Xianzhou Luofu Arc, and in the 1.2 version, the main cast will fight against an Lord Ravager, so they likely get the High 1-C rating

 

[XRking]

Actually, the Emanators/Lord Ravagers are High 1-C, since they are stronger than the Overlords, who can destroy entire leaves of the Imaginary Tree, meaning they were damaging an 11-D structure

The Stellaron Hunters for now are 4-C, but are likely much stronger than that, since Kafka fought against the Trailblazer, Welt and 7th March during the Xianzhou Luofu Arc, and in the 1.2 version, the main cast will fight against an Lord Ravager, so they likely get the High 1-C rating

Can you show me the scan of the emanator/lord Ravager affecting the entire imaginary tree?

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Can you show me the scan of the emanator/lord Ravager affecting the entire imaginary tree?

As like @Aernasilver said, the entire Imaginary Tree is an 11-D structure, and the Overlords can deal damage to it by destroying several leaves,

The Tree itself is High 1-C so anything on it like the leaves and branches are High 1-C.

Doesn't make sense for the body to be High 1-C and it's limbs be Low 2-C.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Basically that, it should have 11D Durability and thus affecting with AP grant 11D AP and Striking strength.
I'm not sure about range.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

By the way guys, when we should add the HSR verse page and its profiles to the Wiki officially? When the Xianzhou Luofu Arc is over to make sure that the scaling is correct and who should scale to the Lord Ravagers?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

By the way guys, when we should add the HSR verse page and its profiles to the Wiki officially? When the Xianzhou Luofu Arc is over to make sure that the scaling is correct and who should scale to the Lord Ravagers?

Better to wait for the current arc to finish. And considering you're adding Tier 1 characters, I think it's best to make a CRT.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

I got Gepard early and was breezing through content so I neglected building a second tank/healer. Now I'm suffering because I don't have two viable teams for MoC.

Posting to subscribe to the thread, keep the lore talk going. Building up Natasha and Preservation Trailblazer right now.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I know nothing has been fully accepted, but I'm going to do some math that could gave HSR verse a very high AP at the High 1-C Tier if everything is accepted

But let's go, since the Ovelords can destroy entire leaves from the Imaginary Tree, and since it is in plural with the word "leaves" instead of just "leaf", it means that we should to assume and use at least two leaves from Imaginary Tree as a good lowball, since it was discussed on page 3, a single leaf from the Imaginary Tree has uncountable infinite universes and all the structure of the Imaginary Tree is 11-D, which means that even a single universe is 11-Dimensional, meaning:

Overlords = At very least 2*uncountable infinite times stronger than the baseline 11-D

Aeons are vastly superior to all current mortals in the HSR Universe, as I luckily found an statement from the loading screen stating that the Aeons are incomparably stronger than any mortal, but I unfortunately couldn't take a print in time, since I was reading it with caution to make sure what I read wasn't wrong, which includes the likes of Lord Ravagers, who are stronger than the Overlords, who should be at very least 2*uncountable infinite times stronger than the baseline 11-D with my math

 

[PasserbyHonkaiExpert]

I would like to clear some things out regarding the terminoly in this series.

The first thing is "universe" and "world".
While some years ago honkai still often times adopted the idea of a universe being a individual space-time structure with the Durandal VN even mentioning a "multiverse" they have since dropped it and instead they portray the universe as a complex 11D structure which contains infinite worlds akin to our own with them following the concept of "alternative realities".
This follows a similar idea present in some MWI (Many-World Interpretation) scientific papers where the universe is all that exists with each world corresponding to a individual world in the past and many in the future.

There's some misconceptions caused by Honkai Impact 3rd's localization team localizing the term 世界 (world) and the term 宇宙 (universe) both as universe leading to confusion.
An example of which is in the Alien Space Manga where Void Archives says the universe (宇宙) has more than 3 Dimensions and that similar yet different realities sprout from the branches from the branches of the Imaginary Tree with them being known as parallel universe (平行世界) in layman terms.
(Do note that it is standard to translate 平行世界 as parallel universe, it's just that in hi3 context it confuses players as the universe refers to a higher structure and would be best to be localized as parallel world).
Another would be in a recent chapter where it was said that the "For most of the time the Sea Of Quanta was as empty as the universe (宇宙) itself".

Star Rail thankfully doesn't suffer from this for the most part as they use "world" to refer to 世界 but they still use the standard translation for 平行世界 as parallel universe.

So we have:
宇宙 (Universe) - The 11D Structure which contains all infinite worlds and the space that separates them.
世界 (World) - When talking about the worlds in the universe also known as proper Worlds (本征世界) they refer to 4D (3D Space + 1D Time) structures seperated by Imaginary Space (with Imaginary Space being able to exist up to a infinity amount). This term can also refer to other things depending on the context, sometimes used to refer to planets or when talking about the Sea Of Quanta's "bubble universes" (世界泡) it refers to unstable worlds usually smaller than a planet that are either "shadow"s from the planets of the real world or proper worlds that have lost their stability and turned into "bubbles".

The Imaginary Tree Theory
The Imaginary Tree is the most widely accepted scientific theory in-game to explain the universe.
This theory views Imaginary as the source and ruler of all existance and compares the universe with a tree-like structure with the growth of it's branches being a representation for the flow of time and the "branching out" representing a point where a "choice" leads to different possibilities originating alternative realities.
Each reality is it's own independent 4D world (3D Space + 1D Time) aka a world.

So universe = tree, world = leaf, branch = timeline/world-line.

This theory is the most accurate to the universe however it as it's flaws as Elias Salas disproved the Imaginary is unique. Unique here refering to the mathematical concept of "uniqueness". This disproving the imaginary as the ruler behind all existance.

Galaxies, Star Systems, Star Clusters, and the many other terms.
Star Rail added a new descriptor for the universe, there's no official term for it (from what I remember) so I will just enceforth call it the "Galaxia Visualization".
In this they visualize the universe as a Galaxy (银河) with each world being a independent Star System/Star Cluster/galaxy (星系).
This terms are more so metaphors to the vastness of space and aren't to be taken literally.

While Star Rail doesn't suffer from 世界 vs 宇宙 it's localization suffers here as the term "星系" has been translated 4 different ways in-game (Star Systems, Star Clusters, Galaxy and Universes).
With each of the different ways that have been localized as already being another term in game:

• Star System (恒星系)
• Star Cluster (星团)
• Galaxy (银河)
• Universe (宇宙)

To avoid confusing this terms (银河 and 星系) with their astronomical counterparts I will be enceforth calling them Galaxia and Stellar System respectively.
With Galaxia coming from the game's previous trademarked name (HI4: Galaxia) and one of the old mihoyo's jp twitter posts.
Meanwhile Stellar System is just because I need a word to separate it from the other terms.
They are obviously not the official terms so don't take them as such.

There is one more term that is unique to this visualization, "interstellar region" (星域) which from the little we know of seems to refer to a collection of multiple Stellar Systems / Worlds.
There is an Abundance Insterstellar Region (丰饶星域) which is under Yaoshi's infulence and the Abundance's power can still be felt on the planets from stellar systems boardering the region.

So in the end we have:
Universe = Tree = Galaxia
World = Leaf = Stellar System

Lord Ravager scaling and Overlord.
Overlord is most likely just a short-form way of refering to Lord Ravagers. The CN name for Overlord is "大君" while Lord Ravagers are "绝灭大君".
With overlords and Lord-Ravagers both being said to command the legion troops.
(Edit: List Of Archnemises (Book) -> Ruin Scroll: Lord Ravager directly states they are the same)

Overlords are said to be able to incinerate a Stellar System with the IPC news also stating that one of the Lord Ravagers (Zephyro) destroyed the Tia'nua Stellar System.
As worlds are 4D as stated both in Second Eruption QnA section and in Chapter 25-ex of Honkai Impact 3rd this would likely put them at 3-A.
Maybe lower as I believe we don't fully know the size of the proper worlds worlds, HI3's seems comparable to our own due to many references to planets and the like from our world but bare minimum you can count all the stars visible from the express and go from there as it's stated that light doesn't pass through Imaginary Space (meaning each star in the sky is part of that one world) and the visitors of the express have commented on them.

Proper Worlds are 4D Statements.
(25-Ex)
奥托: 我们身处的四维时空乍看起来平坦、空旷;但在更高的宇宙维度 上,却有许多凭借人的感官难以想象的复杂结构.
奥托: 前文明的人类,发明了两个形象的词汇来称呼它们:「量子之海 」,还有「虚数之树」。
Otto: "At first glance, the 4D spacetime we inhabit seems flat and empty. Yet in the higher-dimensional realms of the universe, there are many unimaginable complex structures".
Otto: "People of the Previous Era had two descriptive names for these structures: The Sea Of Quanta and the Imaginary Tree."

(2nd Eruption QnA)
如果将我们所身处的整个四维空间(三维空间+时间)视作一个“世界球”,那么在“世界球”的外侧,存在于这个“球”之外 的一切其他空间,就都是虚数空间,这些虚数空间可以存在无限多个。
If the entire 4D (3D space + Time) we live in can be regarded as a "world-sphere", then outside of this "world-sphere", all other spaces that exist are Imaginary Spaces, these Imaginary Spaces can exist in infinite amounts.

 

[Executor_N0]

I guess I spent all my luck in this update. Can't wait next year when I get my luck back

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

I guess I spent all my luck in this update. Can't wait next year when I get my luck back

You're not the only one.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I got Luocha, Yukong and E5 Qingque in 70 pulls, and since I saved so many jades that even after that amount of pulls, in a few days after I could get enough special passes to get Kafka guaranteed when her banner comes

 

[XRking]

Should we put Civilization Type 3 on this matter?

 

[Aernasilver]

1.2 hype!

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Another hot evil mommy waifu that we will likely kill and won't get a playable version of. At least the boss fight involves slapping her right in the ****.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Wow, the Reddit's users opinion on HSR powerscaling is rather... peculiar

Nearly everyone who mentioned the statements of Doomsday Beast, Stellaron Hunters, the swallowing star monsters and others was downvoted while who discarded these statements or actually used weak arguments to counter such as "we don't saw it on-screen", "they were exaggerating", "they could have destroyed the core of the planet causing and chain reaction" and other similar arguments was upvoted, lol

 

[Giannysmag]

Wow, the Reddit's users opinion on HSR powerscaling is hilarious

Nearly everyone who mentioned the statements of Doomsday Beast, Stellaron Hunters, the swallowing star monsters and others was downvoted, lol

Damn i was literally just reading that thread

To be fair most fans are pretty casual when it comes to lore. Plus the problem most people seem to have is wether these statements refer to actually blowing up the planet or just life-wiping (which is a problem i also kinda have)