Honkai Speed Revision 2

[GarrixianXD]

Continuation of this CRT, in which the core premise is present:

Honkai Speed Revision

Overview First, we have the Imaginary Tree, but specifically, its time axis, in which its time is no different from moving through spatial dimensions. Our official FAQ says states a character can qualify for Immeasurable speed if “the regular dimension of time appears like a spatial dimension...

vsbattles.com

The previous CRT was rejected on the basis that the characters had to rely on a property of the Imaginary Space to travel through time like a spatial dimension. However, that property and its function itself were never argued upon.

The Herrscher of the Void can transfer her attacks through the Imaginary Space. Meaning that her projectile attacks are accelerated in and within Imaginary Space, and are then projected into the real world from it to reach literally inconceivable speeds.

Himeko was able to fight on par with Sirin, who was actively projecting attacks from Imaginary Space against her. We see blades and blasts of energy coming out of those black portals, which link the real world with the Imaginary Space. We can confirm that those black portals are indeed interdimensional portals that connect the universe with the Imaginary Space. So yeah, Himeko was able to keep up and even parry those attacks that were launched from Imaginary Space in the real world, meaning she had no speed amplification or anything from the Imaginary Space.

Additional evidence of Sirin's technique of accelerating objects through the Imaginary Space is included in the bottom paragraph of this scan. It mentioned that Sirin can reflect objects from Imaginary Space into real space, that it happens extremely fast to the point it is in a manner of making the object tangible. Judah was easily pierced by the Subspace Lance and couldn't dodge it, because it was an intangible object before she got pierced. Immeasurable speed emphasizes the movement beyond linear time, meaning the Subspace Lance didn't exist within the linear flow of time; now taking the logic of Immeasurable speed into the case of Judahs getting stabbed by the Subspace Lance, it is very likely that the Subspace Lance did not exist in any prior infinitesimal time point before she got stabbed (because its speed/movement is not bound by the linear time of the event), hence the object is regarded as "intangible prior to becoming tangible" from Judah's perspective.

In conclusion, Himeko should have her speed upgraded to Immeasurable, via reacting to and blocking/parrying Sirin's projectile attacks that accelerated out of Imaginary Space. Any characters who can keep up with Himeko and Sirin should also have their speed respectively upgraded to Immeasurable.

Agree: DarkDragonMedeus, LephyrTheRevanchist, Dereck03, Elizhaa (4)

Disagree: Theglassman12 (1)

Tally: 4-1

 

[GarrixianXD]

@Shiroiyo @DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Propellus @Just_a_Random_Butler @Elizhaa @Firestorm808 @LordGriffin1000 Any evaluations here will be appreciated.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Attacks reaching other universes in itself isn't really speed but range. But if it's backed up by reason that "Imaginary Space enables characters to move and fight through time as if it's a spatial dimension" combined with them doing the same thing in real space, I can see merit. But looking at the Imgur image, I am on board with Immeasurable speed.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Attacks reaching other universes in itself isn't really speed but range. But if it's backed up by reason that "Imaginary Space enables characters to move and fight through time as if it's a spatial dimension" combined with them doing the same thing in real space, I can see merit. But looking at the Imgur image, I am on board with Immeasurable speed.

Yeah. The core premise is that Sirin uses the Imaginary Space to accelerate her attacks, and then she projects them directly into the real world from the Imaginary Space. It was covered in the last revision that the Imaginary Space allows objects to travel through time like a spatial dimension.

 

[Woomica]

agree with dadyxian

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Attacks reaching other universes in itself isn't really speed but range. But if it's backed up by reason that "Imaginary Space enables characters to move and fight through time as if it's a spatial dimension" combined with them doing the same thing in real space, I can see merit. But looking at the Imgur image, I am on board with Immeasurable speed.

Agreed

 

[Woomica]

is that mean agree or?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

is that mean agree or?

"i am on board with immeasurable speed"
"Agreed"

 

[Dereck03]

Fine.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Fine.

ty may god bless you with the ultimate wank

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Funny that something this early on ish in the main game is al it takes to get HI3 (most of them at least, I assume) out of Rela-FTL lol.

I can get behind this if there's no issues thus far. Agree.

 

[Elizhaa]

These changes seem fine.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I know we already have enough agreement for this to be approved and applied, but I'm still going to agree just to say that I support the OP's proposal.

 

[Gonzalo]

I agree

 

[ThanatosX]

This seems solid to me, I agree with the proposal too.

 

[VoidGoji]

Cap./j
Count me as agreeing with this

 

[Voidnether]

Yeah, I agree. This is self-evident on what was presented in Honkai as a whole about this. Gatekeeping it to FTL is just wack.

 

[Theglassman12]

Where exactly is it shown that their attacks are literally travelling through time like it's moving normally through space? This just looks like portal opening to use things that are in a realm rather than actual travelling through time through movement and reacting to things literally moving through time. Also where in that Imgur scan does it remotely say that Lucah being pierced by the subspace lance have anything to do with speed? It just said that Sirin can connect the bond between imaginary and real numbers, making the intangible weapon pierce someone and making it tangible in the end, that has nothing to do with immeasurable speeds.

 

[Vietthai96]

Himeko was able to fight on par with Sirin, who was actively projecting attacks from Imaginary Space against her.

Seriously, this is just a gameplay stage, storywise Himeko never fought Sirin who in the Imaginary space while she is in the real space, literally Himeko was transfered into Imaginary Space and fought Sirin within it that space, literally the animated cutscene later after you finish the battle show it, can we not using a gameplay stage as evidence while nothing backed it up or get contradicted

Judah was easily pierced by the Subspace Lance and couldn't dodge it, because it was an intangible object before she got pierced

What the hell, the scan never said this, where did you get this from?, it only said that by connecting the real space and imaginary space, she can shift her attack between tangible and intangible. Judah get pierced simply because Subspace Lance transformed from intangible object to tangible object, no where in the scan ever said she "accelerated" her attacks to the point Judah couldn't dodge

Lastly is nothing ever stated that Sirin actually used the Imaginary Space in a sense that she send her attacks through time

 

[BoastJr]

I guess this is fine. Although More context would be nice

 

[Robo432343]

Disagree FRA

 

[SODAKU]

Agree FRA

 

[GarrixianXD]

Where exactly is it shown that their attacks are literally travelling through time like it's moving normally through space? This just looks like portal opening to use things that are in a realm rather than actual travelling through time through movement and reacting to things literally moving through time. Also where in that Imgur scan does it remotely say that Lucah being pierced by the subspace lance have anything to do with speed? It just said that Sirin can connect the bond between imaginary and real numbers, making the intangible weapon pierce someone and making it tangible in the end, that has nothing to do with immeasurable speeds.

The Imaginary Space allows the attack to move through time like it is moving through space; this information has been covered in the previous CRT. Those projectiles that came out of those portals were directly projectiles from the Imaginary Space itself, meaning those projectiles accelerated from it. As for your question about the Imgur scan, I can show the raw CN scan to prove my point more clearly (the imaginary and real numbers refer to the Universe and Imaginary Space itself on the raw CN scan).



You can see there are various metaphoric and placeholder titles in quotation marks in the passage, therefore the transformation to that object not being tangible is not literal. For the event in question that is in the passage: the Herrscher of the Void's powers doesn't work with transforming her projectile attacks as tangible, we see it directly fly out of the Imaginary Space to attack Theresa during their battle. Since the "transformation into tangible objects" part is unliteral, the only explanation is that it acts something like that from a person's point of view, such as Theresa. An actual explanation of it would be the description I have given; considering it flew directly out of the Imaginary Space, which I have already proved to make objects travel through time like a spatial dimension.

Suppose you imagine this: you were Theresa. A spear was launched and accelerated from Imaginary Space and, therefore had inconceivable speeds for it to move through time like a spatial dimension. That spear is flying towards you, but you cannot see it or react to it in any way, because the spear is simply so fast that it isn't even in the timeframe you are in. And it'll only travel into the timeframe that you are in upon you get stabbed by it which will already be too late for you to dodge. So in your technical point of view, the spear would be intangible before it stabs you and tangible upon and after it stabs you; even though really, it's not exactly the case -- the spear is so fast to the point that not even "linear time can keep up" because it was accelerated from and out of Imaginary Space, hence qualifies for Immeasurable speed.

Seriously, this is just a gameplay stage, storywise Himeko never fought Sirin who in the Imaginary space while she is in the real space, literally Himeko was transfered into Imaginary Space and fought Sirin within it that space, literally the animated cutscene later after you finish the battle show it, can we not using a gameplay stage as evidence while nothing backed it up or get contradicted

Now this is just an argument from incredulity and appeal to ridicule. Himeko obviously fought Sirin on Hyperion. And for the sake of it, we consider gameplay stages as valid and legitimate feats of fighting as long as they happen in the story; you should deadass know this.

What the hell, the scan never said this, where did you get this from?, it only said that by connecting the real space and imaginary space, she can shift her attack between tangible and intangible. Judah get pierced simply because Subspace Lance transformed from intangible object to tangible object, no where in the scan ever said she "accelerated" her attacks to the point Judah couldn't dodge

Lastly is nothing ever stated that Sirin actually used the Imaginary Space in a sense that she send her attacks through time

Already explained this to Glassman.

 

[Theglassman12]

Literally none of your scans remotely mention accelerating through time, even the original Chinese text says the same thing about turning intangible objects into tangible objects to pierce someone. Nothing about this has any correlation to speed, just controlling matter to bypass someone's durability. Also the projectiles coming from imaginary space doesn't tell me shit about it literally moving through time, you got any scans that specifically mention that these objects travel through time when leaving the imaginary space? Because none of your scans explains this.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Literally none of your scans remotely mention accelerating through time, even the original Chinese text says the same thing about turning intangible objects into tangible objects to pierce someone. Nothing about this has any correlation to speed, just controlling matter to bypass someone's durability. Also the projectiles coming from imaginary space doesn't tell me shit about it literally moving through time, you got any scans that specifically mention that these objects travel through time when leaving the imaginary space? Because none of your scans explains this.

I already explained that turning the object into tangible parts isn't literal, but rather just what it appears to be from the eye. The Imaginary Space accelerates the objects to a speed that moves through time and those spears are straight-up directly projected out of Imaginary Space; I made this very clear. Pretty sure you know how a gun fires, it acts as the bullet's accelerator. The same thing applies to Sirin's spears; instead of a gun, it's the Imaginary Space.

 

[Theglassman12]

That’s not what the text said, especially when it literally describes someone’s ability to control imaginary and real numbers to make intangible objects have real form, and again, where does it say it’s accelerating through time itself? You haven’t proven that

 

[GarrixianXD]

That’s not what the text said, especially when it literally describes someone’s ability to control imaginary and real numbers to make intangible objects have real form

The term "transform" in the passage was in quotations, meaning it wasn't literal and, therefore, could very likely not be an actual transformation. Also, making projectiles tangible isn't even how her ability to project things out of Imaginary space works -- she absorbs already tangible objects into Imaginary Space and then fires them out from it; there was nothing in need to be made tangible. Also, the spears that were mentioned in the passage are already tangible spears behind her back; again nothing needed to be made tangible. What is shown in the actual game story doesn't match up with the passage in a literal sense, especially since the passage itself isn't being described in a strictly literal sense as it contains terms, especially the "transform" part, in quotations.

, and again, where does it say it’s accelerating through time itself?

This was already displayed on the previous CRT I linked on the OP.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Grace time has passed and there wasn't any direct countering evidence against this, and Glassman is heavily outvoted, hence I'll apply this.

 

[Theglassman12]

Hey we’re still discussing the speed stuff, you haven’t given me anything to show that they’re literally travelling through time on their own without some help from the imaginary space.

 

[Planck69]

All I'm seeing that this specific realm being above time allows one to move through time there, not how this applies wholesale to other characters outside of that specific plane.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Because they reacted to attacks that traveled through imaginary space.

 

[Theglassman12]

Where exactly is it shown that these attacks are specifically travelling through time? Because the text doesn’t remotely mention that, just that they control imaginary numbers and real numbers to make things tangible

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

There's an entire video linked in OP man...

The Herrscher of the Void can transfer her attacks through the Imaginary Space. Meaning that her projectile attacks are accelerated in and within Imaginary Space, and are then projected into the real world from it to reach literally inconceivable speeds.

Himeko was able to fight on par with Sirin, who was actively projecting attacks from Imaginary Space against her. We see blades and blasts of energy coming out of those black portals, which link the real world with the Imaginary Space. We can confirm that those black portals are indeed interdimensional portals that connect the universe with the Imaginary Space. So yeah, Himeko was able to keep up and even parry those attacks that were launched from Imaginary Space in the real world, meaning she had no speed amplification or anything from the Imaginary Space.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Where exactly is it shown that these attacks are specifically travelling through time? Because the text doesn’t remotely mention that, just that they control imaginary numbers and real numbers to make things tangible

Traveling through imaginary space allows one to travel through time same as if you were traveling through space.

She sends her attacks through this place, and the player characters react to these attacks. That's simple scaling.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

If you still find issues there, I would ask that you raise this on another thread (though to be noted, there are already 3 threads for this verse opened, so it would have to wait). This one got accepted and applied with sufficient staff approval.

 

[Theglassman12]

@LephyrTheRevanchist you literally described something that doesn’t count for the current standards for immeasurable speed. A realm designed to move through time for the characters doesn’t scale as they’re only able to move through time because of the properties of said realm. Also if the attack has to move in the realm to travel through time then it’s not actually moving on its own, it’s relying on the mechanic of the realm to even travel at all.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@LephyrTheRevanchist you literally described something that doesn’t count for the current standards for immeasurable speed. A realm designed to move through time for the characters doesn’t scale as they’re only able to move through time because of the properties of said realm. Also if the attack has to move in the realm to travel through time then it’s not actually moving on its own, it’s relying on the mechanic of the realm to even travel at all.

The attacks themselves move through this realm, they react to the attack after it has traveled through the realm. Simple scaling.

 

[Theglassman12]

So it’s a property of the realm and not the attack’s own speed that’s letting them move through time. That just proves my point they’re not actually moving that fast on their own, that’s just the realm helping them