Honkai Impact 3rd potential upgrade?

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

After reading the chapter that Cecilia killed Avrora, it seems like Cecilia first managed to break through Avrora's shield, proceeding to pierce the latter in the process with her own strength by throwing the Abyss Flower, also, another point I would like to highlight is that Cecilia used the White Flower version against Avrora, which creates plants and heals, as we saw it saving her by creating plants before she falls, not the Black Abyss, which possesses the withering/decomposing/dura negation powers

So, yeah, Cecilia killed Avorra with her own strength, not because of the Abyss Flower deathly powers

Also, we should include Siegfried in the list of characters who will become 4-B (also, his Base form even without any of Shamash versions will become 4-B, as he damaged Base Otto, who one-shotted Galina, who is comparable to 50% of One Core Sirin, and Otto saw Sieg as too valuable warrior to get rid of or harm)

 

[Zephyr]

After reading the chapter that Cecilia killed Avrora, it seems like Cecilia first managed to break through Avrora's shield, proceeding to pierce the latter in the process with her own strength by throwing the Abyss Flower, also, another point I would like to highlight is that Cecilia used the White Flower version against Avrora, which creates plants and heals, as we saw it saving her by creating plants before she falls, not the Black Abyss, which possesses the withering/decomposing/dura negation powers

So, yeah, Cecilia killed Avorra with her own strength, not because of the Abyss Flower deathly powers

Also, we should include Siegfried in the list of characters who will become 4-B (also, his Base form even without any of Shamash versions will become 4-B, as he damaged Base Otto, who one-shotted Galina, who is comparable to 50% of One Core Sirin, and Otto saw Sieg as too valuable warrior to get rid of or harm)

I agree with the Cecilia thing, then.
I think Ziggy should be small star level tho, not solar system level.
Sirin with 1 core was around star level, and Ziggy could almost kill Bella who is 50%+ of 1 core Sirin.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Wait, I thought that One Core Sirin fought and defeated Welt, who inherited all the power of Joyce, who could perform the Solar System level feat with his own power

Also, if we don't scale the Solar System level feat to One Core Sirin and characters who scales to her, I think we would scale to them to the Large Star level feat, not Star level or Small Star level, as Welt thought that the detonation of his Core had 1% of killing Sirin (he was most likely basing himself on Sirin he fought on Earth, who only had one Core before WotH grants her a considerably increase in power via the four Gems)

 

[Zephyr]

Wait, I thought that One Core Sirin fought and defeated Welt, who inherited all the power of Joyce,

Well, he has his abilities, but he can't use it as good as Welt Joyce. (He harms himself everytime he uses his powers) So I would put Welt at around star level, possibly higher?

who could perform the Solar System level feat with his own power

Yeah. Welt Joyce is Solar System level.

Also, if we don't scale the Solar System level feat to One Core Sirin and characters who scales to her, I think we would scale to them to the Large Star level feat, not Star level or Small Star level, as Welt thought that the detonation of his Core had 1% of killing Sirin (he was most likely basing himself on Sirin he fought on Earth, who only had one Core before WotH grants her a considerably increase in power via the four Gems)

This is fair. I guess we put Ziggy at around star level, then?

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I mean, he is still able to do everything Joyce did, his pain factor doesn't stop him from using the HoR's power in full capacity, it just makes him difficult to use it, its not like he had some forced limiter or something like that, and after the Second Eruption events, but before the main game starts, Welt managed to rebuild his body completely and since then he has been able to use his HoR's full power without feeling pain, which should put him in the 4-B Tier

Also, Otto doesn't fight evenly with Joyce in the Anti-Entropy VN (I don't really know how it really was, since I didn't play AE VN, but based on the manga, I remember that Otto and Joyce were trading blows, with Otto severely wounding Joyce to the point he died some time later after the fight)? That would be enough to put him in the 4-B Tier, which in turn the same should be applied to Ziggy, as he harmed Otto with a punch

 

[Avengershows]

Well, he has his abilities, but he can't use it as good as Welt Joyce. (He harms himself everytime he uses his powers) So I would put Welt at around star level, possibly higher?

To be fair the gap between Star and Large Star and Solar System is large enough so that even if Welt Yang was 100x weaker than Joyce he'd still be in the same tier of power.

(I don't really know how it really was, since I didn't play AE VN, but based on the manga, I remember that Otto and Joyce were trading blows, with Otto severely wounding Joyce to the point he died some time later after the fight)

Joyce didn't die because of Otto per say, but Otto seriously injured him

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Yeah, by this point any relevant character who fought against Herrschers (with the exception of Wendy, who seems to be consistently weaker than the other Herrschers and seems to be the only one of them who will don't scale to Solar System level), Pseudo-Herrschers or Divine Key carriers are 4-B

Also, regarding Wendy and other characters who aren't 4-B, I think we should keep them as Low 6-B via scaling from the Beginning of the Game Kiana, Bronya and Mei fighting a casual Wendy, whose Gem of Desire is able to generate 2.24 Teratons and who can destroy the Hyperion with one hit

 

[Zephyr]

To be fair the gap between Star and Large Star and Solar System is large enough so that even if Welt Yang was 100x weaker than Joyce he'd still be in the same tier of power.


Joyce didn't die because of Otto per say, but Otto seriously injured him

Fair.

 

[Zephyr]

Also, regarding Wendy and other characters who aren't 4-B, I think we should keep them as Low 6-B via scaling from the Beginning of the Game Kiana, Bronya and Mei fighting a casual Wendy, whose Gem of Desire is able to generate 2.24 Teratons and who can destroy the Hyperion with one hit

Okay then.

 

[Zephyr]

So, the same Fu Hua that dodged gamma beams easily barely dodged an attack from The Herrscher of The Void. This means that The Herrscher of The Void can move at FTL speeds, right?

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

So, the same Fu Hua that dodged gamma beams easily barely dodged an attack from The Herrscher of The Void. This means that The Herrscher of The Void can move at FTL speeds, right?

I think yes.

Also, guys since the High 1-C stuff is going to be removed from almost all characters except WotH and the cosmology, does that mean Dea Anchora will become outright 4-A? I remember that she was 4-A via the justification from her being a "God" who bears the universe and ruled every existing law/phenomenon that consists of numerous planets and a starry night sky, and this would become more consistent with the other Tier 4 stuff and that would also make PE Durandal, HoFS Kiana and False God Otto get the Tier 4-A too

 

[Zephyr]

I think yes.

Okay then.

Also, guys since the High 1-C stuff is going to be removed from almost all characters except WotH and the cosmology, does that mean Dea Anchora will become outright 4-A? I remember that she was 4-A via the justification from her being a "God" who bears the universe and ruled every existing law/phenomenon that consists of numerous planets and a starry night sky, and this would become more consistent with the other Tier 4 stuff and that would also make PE Durandal, HoFS Kiana and False God Otto get the Tier 4-A too

I don't think we should remove the high 1-C stuff. Dea Anchora has a universe with 11 dimensions powering her.

 

[Avengershows]

Are there any disagreements with the post? If not then I can ask the mods to check this CRT out so we can actually figure out what to do

 

[Ratherlarge]

Are we 100% sure that the black hole scaling isn't hax based?

 

[Avengershows]

Are we 100% sure that the black hole scaling isn't hax based?

I mean there's no indication of it being hax based so

 

[Zephyr]

Are we 100% sure that the black hole scaling isn't hax based?

Why would it be hax? There isn't really any reason to think so.

 

[Ratherlarge]

Like I'm still not entirely convinced whether Sirin and Welts interaction with black holes should scale to other characters.

 

[Zephyr]

Like I'm still not entirely convinced whether Sirin and Welts interaction with black holes should scale to other characters.

Why wouldn't it?

 

[Zephyr]

There is no reason for it not to. It isn't hax.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Bump

 

[Zephyr]

Like I'm still not entirely convinced whether Sirin and Welts interaction with black holes should scale to other characters.

While Sirin was not using her space-time powers, exhausted and out of Honkai Energy, she was still able to survive being halfway inside the blackhole for a few seconds, without a scratch. Her space-time powers aren't doing much here. About Welt, I was trying to say that he is able to reduce the range of his blackhole's effects somewhat, not that it would scale to other characters.

 

[Zephyr]

Bump

As Avenger said, I think we should get some mods to look at the thread to figure out what we should do, after we have finished discussing this with everybody.

 

[Ratherlarge]

While Sirin was not using her space-time powers, exhausted and out of Honkai Energy, she was still able to survive being halfway inside the blackhole for a few seconds, without a scratch. Her space-time powers aren't doing much here. About Welt, I was trying to say that he is able to reduce the range of his blackhole's effects somewhat, not that it would scale to other characters.

But aren't those powers passive? She still has the Void gem within her and wasn't completely out of energy right?

HoT is immune to lightning and HoF is immune to heat, the same should apply to HoV with space/time attacks like black holes.

 

[Avengershows]

But aren't those powers passive? She still has the Void gem within her and wasn't completely out of energy right?

She was

 

[Zephyr]

But aren't those powers passive? She still has the Void gem within her and wasn't completely out of energy right?

She was.

HoT is immune to lightning and HoF is immune to heat, the same should apply to HoV with space/time attacks like black holes.

Fair, but the rest of my points still stand.

 

[Zephyr]

I'll try to make a list of the affected characters and their tiers, please tell me if you disagree.

 

[Ratherlarge]

She was.

But she still had the herrscher clothes though and the void gem is made of honkai energy.

 

[Avengershows]

HoT is immune to lightning and HoF is immune to heat, the same should apply to HoV with space/time attacks like black holes.

Black Holes aren't space time attacks. You're just being crushed by shit tons of gravity. Sirin never showed immunity to gravity based so we can't say she has a resistance to spacetime manipulation because a) black holes arent spacetime manipulation
b) she never displayed resistance to that
c) HoV's power isnt that of spacetime, it's of manipulating imaginary space

 

[Zephyr]

I'll try to make a list of the affected characters and their tiers, please tell me if you disagree.

-Sirin (4-B) (Can ignore durability with hax)
-Welt (4-B)
-Welt Joyce (4-B)
-Kiana (4-B) (Can ignore durability with hax)
-Herrscher of The Void (4-B)
-Bronya (4-B)
-Mei (4-B)
-Ana (4-B)
-Herrscher of Rimestar (4-B)
-Agata, Avrora, Galina (All of them are 50% of the Sirin that beat Welt) (4-B)
-Cecilia (1 shot Avrora) (4-B)
-Kevin (4-B)
-Durandal (High 1-C)
-Fu Hua (She stomped ascended sirin 2 times, lol) (4-B)
-Su (4-B)
-Kalpas (4-B)
-Mobius (4-B)
-Elysia (4-B)
-Bella (Is slightly above 50% of the Sirin that beat Welt, due to having a Pseudo Core while also being a Judgement Class Honkai Beast) (4-B)
-Otto (4-B) (Possibly 2-A without imaginary renormalization? We can discuss this.)
-Senti (4-B) (We can debate this aswell)
-Ryusuke (4-B)
-Ziggy (4-B)
-Teri (4-B)
-Starchasm Nyx (4-B)
I think everybody here should have FTL speeds, possibly FTL+? we can talk about this aswell (A partially awakened Herrscher of the Void with only 1 Core could go FTL, Sirin had 6 cores and some characters could react to her)

 

[Zephyr]

But she still had the herrscher clothes though and the void gem is made of honkai energy.

She probably spent so much energy that it could be considered roughly all of her energy, then, because it is stated that she drew upon all her remaining powers to make that portal.

 

[Zephyr]

c) HoV's power isnt that of spacetime, it's of manipulating imaginary space

It is both Imaginary Space and space-time.

 

[Ratherlarge]

-Sirin (4-B) (Can ignore durability with hax)
-Welt (4-B)
-Welt Joyce (4-B)
-Kiana (4-B) (Can ignore durability with hax)
-Herrscher of The Void (4-B)
-Bronya (4-B)
-Mei (4-B)
-Ana (4-B)
-Herrscher of Rimestar (4-B)
-Agata, Avrora, Galina (All of them are 50% of the Sirin that beat Welt) (4-B)
-Cecilia (1 shot Avrora) (4-B)
-Kevin (4-B)
-Durandal (High 1-C)
-Fu Hua (She stomped ascended sirin 2 times, lol) (4-B)
-Su (4-B)
-Kalpas (4-B)
-Mobius (4-B)
-Elysia (4-B)
-Bella (Is slightly above 50% of the Sirin that beat Welt, due to having a Pseudo Core while also being a Judgement Class Honkai Beast) (4-B)
-Otto (4-B) (Possibly 2-A without imaginary renormalization? We can discuss this.)
-Senti (4-B) (We can debate this aswell)
I think everybody here should have FTL speeds, possibly FTL+? we can talk about this aswell (A partially awakened Herrscher of the Void with only 1 Core could go FTL, Sirin had 6 cores and some characters could react to her)

What about Himeko and Yae Sakura?

 

[Ratherlarge]

Black Holes aren't space time attacks. You're just being crushed by shit tons of gravity. Sirin never showed immunity to gravity based so we can't say she has a resistance to spacetime manipulation because a) black holes arent spacetime manipulation
b) she never displayed resistance to that
c) HoV's power isnt that of spacetime, it's of manipulating imaginary space

Black holes are related to spatial manipulation which is part of space/time manipulation. And I'm pretty sure HoV's power does revolve around space/time

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@Zephyr

You forgot to add Ryusuke Murata (65% Welt was terrified of his power, who is still 4-B. He was stated by Welt to be far stronger than Judgment Honkai Beast Class like Benares), Siegfried (He harmed Otto with a punch, who one-shotted Galina with his bare hand, and despite Otto despising Ziggy, he said that Ziggy was too valuable an asset to harm, and at his full potential, the Kaslana genetic memory stated that even most of Herrschers would be not match for him), Starchasm Nyx (She easily defeated a big horde of HoD's puppets, which can fight Herrscher of Thunder Mei to a stalemate) and Theresa with Oath of Judah (Divine Keys were stated to be capable of harming Kevin and they killed PE Herrschers. One Core Sirin was unable to destoy Judah even with all of her power)

 

[Avengershows]

Black holes are related to spatial manipulation which is part of space/time manipulation. And I'm pretty sure HoV's power does revolve around space/time

being related doesnt mean that they attack via spatial manipulation. Black Holes would fall under gravity manipulation. And no, they don't revolve around it.

It is both Imaginary Space and space-time.

Her primary powers are of Imaginary Space Manipulation, which is likely what she uses to further use space-time manipulation

 

[Ratherlarge]

Sirin has resistance to Gravity and Spatial manipulation in her profile...

 

[Zephyr]

What about Himeko and Yae Sakura?

Himeko could beat The Herrscher of The Void, because The Herrscher of The Void was recently hit by the selene, which literally tore her body apart and neutralized a lot of honkai.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I mean, Himeko and the HoV were fighting evenly before the Selene hit the latter and weakens her, Himeko even made the HoV bleed by far as I remember

 

[Ratherlarge]

Yeah she's at least relative to HoV

 

[Zephyr]

I mean, Himeko and the HoV were fighting evenly before the Selene hit the latter and weakens her, Himeko even made the HoV bleed by far as I remember

Sure, but The Herrscher of The Void underestimates her opponents a lot, and as a result opponents far weaker than her are able to fight her. Also yeah, Himeko made her bleed, but just because Himeko injured The Herrscher of The Void doesn't mean she is relative to her, because The Herrscher of The Void is able to heal and just injuring someone doesn't mean you are relative to them.