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Holy Mami vs Caster Merlin

Schnee One said:
Monarch of Pointland is a case of people forgetting that Monarch can't affect his opponent. Kinda like when people forget SCP871 is a terrible fighter.
Merlin cannot, will not, and never, do anything to Mami at all. Being in a state for 24 hours where you cannot harm your opponent is the textbook definition of incap
Click to expand...
Yeah, but I do want to point out that these minor win conditions have reach effects.

Well actually, he is getting time travel on his profile, but that is beside the point. It is not being in a state, but being in a state that was set by your opponent for 24 hours that counts as incapacity. Note:

"Killing the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions." - SBA win conditions

Shw did not put him in the state, so it does not count as a form of incapacity. He has time travel at this point anyway
 
He does not have time travel with his higher form, his lower form needs to do it to someone, if he could do it with his higher form he would be the strongest servant in the verse.

Mindhaxing him to where he can't do shit to her is incapacitation
 
He can spawn his lower forms at various points in time, and actually moved other servants through time. Also, he is one of the strongest servants in the verse. It is actually implied that he is almost on the level of a Beast servant, and the only thing stopping him from being a full on Beast is very little, most that he is a half breed. The other grand caster also has time travel, so it is not that strange

Yes, but it does not last for 24 hours. It is temporary incapacity, but not enough for her to win.
 
Mindhax in PMMM can last for weeks at a time, as witches use people as slaves often, so yes, it is

But if his higher form can teleport people to BFR, that needs to be on his file and once it is this Is a stomp
 
But that is only for one of the avatars, and another one just gets propped up in its place. She cannot do any real form of incapacity that will last since a new avatar just shows up in its place

I don't know if he can BFR, that is a good question. I will need to check up on the context. Either way, raw BFR probably wouldnt work on Holy Mami. I was saying time travel as in, he goes back in time and kills her passed self when she wasn't abstract. But yeah, you right, it would be a stomp I guess, since he is the only one with win conditions.
 
Time travel won't do much, as due to Madoka magia's universe being looped multiple times Holy Mami is the only form of her that exists in the timeline, so time paradoxing her is not an option

and sending someone who can't die because of old age back in time doesn't do anything, as he'll just be back istantly dou to time being linear.
 
Sorry, how does repeated time loops stop time paradoxing? I'm confused

What? Sending people to the future is what he did, which doesn't help
 
Because 7-B Mami doesn't exist at all in the current timeline, as Holy Mami comes from a past iterations of the universe, so Merlin's time travel can't reach her weaker form
 
Overlord775 said:
Because 7-B Mami doesn't exist at all in the current timeline, as Holy Mami comes from a past iterations of the universe, so Merlin's time travel can't reach her weaker form
Click to expand...
And Merlin can influence the singularities and time travel people from times that do not exist, such as the rest of history prior to life wiping humanity across past present and future. Mami's past self can be pull to the present or another time as well
 
I doubt it's actually going to die.

It's a really high end High 7A feat that was done passively while focusing on something else.
 
Overlord775 said:
Because 7-B Mami doesn't exist at all in the current timeline, as Holy Mami comes from a past iterations of the universe, so Merlin's time travel can't reach her weaker form
Click to expand...
Pretty sure that she does.

They simply fused her with a Rumor at some point due to timeline alterations caused by our lord and savior the 2-A pebble
 
He doesn't send people through time in a combat applicable way, he can only really manifest himself at different points in a combat applicable form
 
Does Time Paradoxing beat Type 8 again? Especially if you're an abstract rumour?

Also we had a thread on time paradoxing being borderline impossible IIRC
 
Depends on the source of the type 8. If they can be prevented from ever obtaining the type 8 then no. Holy Mami was once just normal Mami right? Or just a normal magical girl? Prior to her becoming a rumor

Link? I'm not sure why that would be the case unless a verses cosmology forbids it, in which case verse equalization gets weird at that point. Merlin has accausality so he can deal with the consequences and time paradoxing is very much possible in fate
 
It's explicitly not possible in Fate. Once you're recorded into the throne of hero's, your history stays there forvever, Saber even notes this and it's why Archer trying to kill Shirou would fail

Which, now that I think about it, Caster seeing Mami would make him think she's a servant or hero of some kind due to her strength and thus paradoxing would be out of the question
 
Archer isn't in the Throne though. He can be summoned, yes, but he isn't with the rest of the HS. His problem is that he can't find his way back to his 5HGW rather than being recorded outside of time and space.
 
That's some bullshit. You cannot remove a servant from the throne of heroes or the counter force, but you can time Paradox otherwise. See Goetia destroying humanity past present and future. Solomon also is able to actually time paradox himself out of existence

Nope. His clairvoyance would reveal otherwise, and he would know she wasnt a servant.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Archer isn't in the Throne though. He can be summoned, yes, but he isn't with the rest of the HS. His problem is that he can't find his way back to his 5HGW rather than being recorded outside of time and space.
Click to expand...
Right, thats true.

@Iap Paradoxing normal humans isn't compared to that of Paradoxing a servant of heroic spirit. But if he has Clairvoyance okay
 
Before she became a Rumor, she was magical girl Mami, and before that, she was regular girl Mami. If either of the previous Mami die then the Rumor is never born, or at least the rumor is incarnated very differently. If the rumor were not tied to someone mortal, then maybe not, but since she is, he should be able to
 
Is that an in universe definition? Because otherwise that's false.

(I cannot believe I'm about to use Veggie Tails for the example lol). You ever seen Larry Boy and the Rumor Weed? It's like if Merlin wanted to stop the rumor weed (who is empowered by the belief in rumors) so he goes back in time and kills Junior to stop him from spreading the rumor to begin with.

Or in her case, kill Mami so she doesn't become the incarnation of the rumor and someone else does if it is born at all
 
1) Clairvoyance

2) If he kills Mami then she doesn't become the rumor at all, as I assume she became the incarnation of the rumor and was not born that way
 
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