Hiiragi Seijuurou vs SCP 682

[Yamatoryujin]

@Weekly He's probably illustrating how forced cooperation works and how 682 won't be able to refuse. Also, it took him 3 hours to recover from being turned into a cat, how is that in anyway similar to this scenario? Where he won't receive his abilities until he kills Seiji (and be cured of his diseases), in which he has no way of doing, as par the rules.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

to make desire of the user come to agree in the form of an exchange between the opponent and the target.

That's mind manipulation, and it still doesn't ignore resistance given by a being beyond Hiis power to affect

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Yama Because 1237's effect is permanent and persists even after 1237 dies, yet 682 was able to regain its powers anyways

 

[ALRF]

I like how you ignored the whole "Target agreed to the contract"

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[Ricsi-viragosi]

like how you ignored the whole "Target agreed to the contract"

I did not, because this: Forced Cooperation is simply enforcing a contract with the target by following specific procedures,The enemy himself has submitted and agreed to the « rules ». It is impossible to resist against it, is mind manipulation.

And an nlf as well, vbecause its anomalous properties come from a 1-B

 

[Yamatoryujin]

@Yama Because 1237's effect is permanent and persists even after 1237 dies, yet 682 was able to regain its powers anyways

You're not listening once again, he has agreed to conditions. He can't do anything about it, he can't break the conditions by his own violation and he won't be able to regain his power, as per the contract.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

You're not listening once again, he has agreed to conditions. He can't do anything about it, he can't break the conditions by his own violation and he won't be able to regain his power, as per the contract.

But how can Hii force a 1-B concsiousness to do anything at all? Let alone nullify its powergranting

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah no, its an NLF to say that he can force a 1-B mind to agree to something when he has no feats even remotely close to that

 

[ALRF]

Higher dimensional properties doesn't even matter when it comes to Kyudan

Amakasu Masahiko, someone with 2-B willpower, 2-B hax and many more would be affected by it in any case if he had the condition for it to be activated.

 

[Kaltias]

And an nlf as well, vbecause its anomalous properties come from a 1-B

It's not nlf because all the abilities that 682 has are 3-D.

Edit: The power exchange part

 

[WeeklyBattles]

>He can affect a 2-B therefore he can affect a 1-B

What?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Higher dimensional properties doesn't even matter when it comes to Kyudan
Amakasu Masahiko, someone with 2-B willpower, 2-B hax and many more would be affected by it in any case if he had the condition for it to be activated.

...false equivalency. There are hundreds of infinities between 2B and 1B.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It's not nlf because all the abilities that 682 has are 3-D.

Edit: The power exchange part

But they are empowered by 1-B concsiusness, which has a habit to drive people insane if absorbed

 

[ALRF]

He...doesn't "force" 682.

• 682 does an action

• Seiji sees it as negative (and trust me, this guy term for negative is loooose. Just looking at him is negative. Trying to correct his mistakes is negative. Loving him (Not twisted love like Shinno but more like pure like his wife) is negative to him)

• Kyudan activates

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

You're not listening once again, he has agreed to conditions. He can't do anything about it, he can't break the conditions by his own violation and he won't be able to regain his power, as per the contract.

There's nothing in the contract about that though.

Just "give Hiiragi x and he gives you diseases in exchange". Nothing says you can't get back something he's stolen or get a new version.

Unless he's stolen limbs or something from people with Regenerationn and they haven't been able to regenerate them because of that?

 

[Yamatoryujin]

> 3-D actions/abilities are empowered by 1-B concsiusness

I'm sorry what?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

He...doesn't "force" 682.

• 682 does an action

• Seiji sees it as negative (and trust me, this guy term for negative is loooose. Just looking at him is negative. Trying to correct his mistakes is negative. Loving him (Not twisted love like Shinno but more like pure like his wife) is negative to him)

• Kyudan activates

If he's not forcing 682 then why would 682 be affected if the most Seji has shown to be able to affect are 2-Bs? He needs a feat of affecting a 1-B in order for you to argue that he could.

 

[Kaltias]

Hmmm what. 682's reactive evolution, absorption etc are just that.

They don't have any correlation with 1-B stuff except that the user happens to have a 1-B true form which doesn't really do anything

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

> 3-D actions/abilities are empowered by 1-B concsiusness
I'm sorry what?

Its anomalous abilities like Regenerationn and adaptation are a side-effect of it being the avatar of its 1-B self

 

[WeeklyBattles]

> 3-D actions/abilities are empowered by 1-B concsiusness
I'm sorry what?

He'd need to affect 682's 1-B mind in orer to steal his 3-D powers

 

[ALRF]

Hmmm what. 682's reactive evolution, absorption etc are just that.

They don't have any correlation with 1-B stuff except that the user happens to have a 1-B true form which doesn't really do anything

So not even 1-B?

 

[Yamatoryujin]

There's nothing in the contract about that though.
Just "give Hiiragi x and he gives you diseases in exchange". Nothing says you can't get back something he's stolen or get a new version.

Unless he's stolen limbs or something from people with Regenerationn and they haven't been able to regenerate them because of that?

Yes that wasn't the example I had in mind but that has happened. Akira was unable to heal anybody, of their diseases, limbs and missing organs, whilst they were under the Kyudan, the idea is you can't break a contract (unless you're Yoshiya). The contract is the exchange, the client is unable to regain anything as the exchange has finished.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Hmmm what. 682's reactive evolution, absorption etc are just that.
They don't have any correlation with 1-B stuff except that the user happens to have a 1-B true form which doesn't really do anything

682's mind is 1-B. The contract would have to affect his 1-B mind in order to steal his 3-D powers. Plus 682's regen comes from his 1-B mind

 

[Kaltias]

The abilities aren't 1-B (except the immortailities and regen)

It has a legit 1-B consciousness but no 1-B hax

 

[Agnaa]

Higher dimensional properties doesn't even matter when it comes to Kyudan

Amakasu Masahiko, someone with 2-B willpower, 2-B hax and many more would be affected by it in any case if he had the condition for it to be activated.

This feels like a NLF to me. Would you argue that Kyudan would work on Tier 0 beings?

Is "Kyudan bypasses all resistances and immunities no matter the dimensionality of the character" the commonly accepted interpretation of that power here?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Kalt Exactly, the problem is Seji doesnt have any feats even remotely close to imply he could affect 682's 1-B mind in order to initiate a contract in order to steal 682's 3-D powers

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yamatoryujin wrote
Yes that wasn't the example I had in mind but that has happened. Akira was unable to heal anybody, of their diseases, limbs and missing organs, whilst they were under the Kyudan, the idea is you can't break a contract (unless you're Yoshiya). The contract is the exchange, the client is unable to regain anything as the exchange has finished.

And how would the contract stop a 1-B from laughing at it? The powers potency is 3-D, but its empowered by a 1-B

 

[WeeklyBattles]

682's regen does actually stem directly from its 1-B consciousness

 

[Agnaa]

Even disregarding that, Kyudan would still have to demonstrate (not state, we disregard featless statements of "infinite energy" or "bypasses all defenses" etc all the time) resistance negation of a higher level than 682's demonstrated, which seems difficult.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And even the, if he absorbed it what would stop the lizard from possesing him?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

-Inuzuka Shino Moritaka: Yoshiya's third Hadan. It deals with severing emotional illness, mental effects, and corruption from oneself and others. This ability is what also allows Yoshiya to sever Forced Cooperation between himself and the user, as he was able to sever the ability of his father Seijuurou from himself.

This is what let Yoshiya sever the Forced Cooperation if anyone is wondering

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yea, still nlf for a 1-B to not be able to posess him

 

[Kaltias]

Well first of all, you would kinda need evidence that the possession has 1-B potency.

Alternatively a blatant quote about the fact that the entirety of the 1-B consciousness is the one possessing people

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Kalt Its not even that, there's nothing implying Seji would be able to affect 682's consciousness in the first place

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not too sure about the 1-B possession, does Seijuurou have any resistance to possession?

 

[Kaltias]

@Weekly

Oh I know. I was just adressing the 1-B possession thing

 

[ALRF]

Can SCP affect metaphysical existence such as dreams?

Cause Seijuurou is one

 

[Agnaa]

Item: SCP-1237 Tissue Test Record: N/A Termination Test Record: A deliberate containment breach was induced which an SCP-1237-1-L specimen was permitted to observe from a safe distance. Thirteen security personnel were killed before containment was re-established. Subject was dosed with ÔûêÔûêÔûêÔûêÔûêÔûêÔûêÔûêÔûêÔûêÔûêÔûê to encourage REM sleep and onset of SCP-1237 and instructed to dream that SCP-682 was a small housecat with no special abilities, and that the security team had been able to destroy it easily. 7 seconds after onset of SCP-1237 event, subject began to seize violently. Subject was declared dead after 32 seconds. Autopsy discovered the subject's body covered with scratch and bite marks and infected with bubonic plague, toxoplasmosis, and subacute regional lymphadenitis ("cat scratch fever"). The bodies of the deceased security personnel displayed similar characteristics. A small housecat was found in SCP-682's containment chamber cleaning blood off of its coat; said cat regenerated into SCP-682 within 3 hours.

Someone tried to dream 682's powers out of existence, and 682 attacked that person from within the dream, killing them, then regenerated later.

However, I don't remember a specific time where 682 attacked a straight up incorporeal, maybe Weekly knows one?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Item: SCP-3930

Tissue Test Record: SCP-682's tissue was brought into the void, and ceased existing.

Termination Test Record: SCP-682 is introduced to SCP-3930, and successfully ceases existing. However, despite SCP-682 no longer existing, Foundation personnel still perceive SCP-682. When the entity is looked at, a vivid image or memory is recalled in the brain of personnel that is described as resembling the appearance of SCP-682. This entity has been observed "attacking" personnel, killing them, despite the fact that SCP-682 does not exist during these attacks. It should be noted that personnel killed in this manner died when their brains ceased to function, despite the appearance of "physical damage" occurring on their bodies. All destruction caused by this entity becomes "real", even if the entity that caused it didn't. 15 hours later, SCP-682 was found within its containment chamber. It is unknown how SCP-682 managed to gain existence after this incident.


682 was able to kill people while nonexistent

 

[Agnaa]

There was also the time where 682 was put to sleep and then a manifestation of 682 appeared around the site attacking people.

However, all of these are just 682 attacking corporeal people incorporeally, is there an instance of 682 attacking a straight up incorporeal?