High School DxD: Kyoto Replica Feat Explained (Raws added)

[Krudelu]

This is my first CRT here so I apoligize for my wordings here...

Currently in Issei's profile for Triana Key: Mountain level (Significantly more powerful than before. Obliterated a complete and sturdier replication of Kyoto)

One of Issei's well known feats during story arc 3 is the Kyoto busting feat in Volume 9 Life 4

"Disappear! [Dragon Blaster]!"

BOOOM!!

The shoulder cannons fired, releasing an extremely massive blast! Even as I tried my hardest to maintain my footing, I could not stop the impact from the recoil, and it sent my body skidding backwards...! I had to use all my strength to stop myself from flying away! The high-output energy blast was fired into the midst of the Hero Faction!

"Interesting! I will take this shot, legendary Dragon!"

Heracles stepped up in front. Was he trying to receive my attack head-on?

"Don't take it! Evade!"

Cao Cao yelled and used the base of his spear to hit Heracles away from the line of fire! Cao Cao and the other members then swiftly escaped from my attack. Without hitting anyone, the cannon blast continued flying onward far away behind them.

KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

A large explosion shook the entire space while the city in the background was engulfed by the gigantic aura! ...The energy continued to spread, surrounding the entire city with intense light! As the bright light faded, nothing was left! The cannon blast eliminated the entire scenery, and even the game field was affected as the artificial dimension began to show signs of distortion!

"...He destroyed the whole city! Hey! If he keeps firing, this dimension won't last!"

Whenever this feat is brought up, usually the quote used would be from the beginning of part 5 of the chapter.

However, there is one crucial information that need to be taken into account regarding this feat: The location of the fight and where Dragon Blaster is fired from.

The location of the fight against the Hero Faction and where Issei fired his Dragon Blaster is at Nijou Castle, which is is the middle of Kyoto. This would mean that Issei was in the middle of Kyoto when he fired his cannons

Here's the map of Kyoto:




First things first

Here are the raw s that covers the above Kyoto replica feat. Sorry that I have to snapshot it when I was viewing this through bookwalker but I hope that these shoould be enough to allow you guys to OCR it somehow...







-------------------------------------------

Here are the quotes that the series keep telling us that the fight against Hero Faction later on in the volume after the encounter in the bridge will take place at Nijou Castle, which is the location where the Hero Faction is enacting their experiment during the events of volume 9:

Volume 9 Life 4

We were now using my room to discuss tonight's upcoming events. Tonight, the Hero Faction's experiment was going to take place at Nijou Castle.

"So, let's start explaining our battle plan. The area centred around Nijou Castle and Kyoto station is now in a state of high alert. All Devils and Fallen Angels stationed in Kyoto have been mobilized to search for suspicious characters. The Kyoto Youkai are also providing us with assistance. Though we still haven't confirmed the movements of the Hero Faction, we have successfully detected an ominous presence concentrating at the centre of Nijou Castle."

Saji made an apologising gesture with his hands as he ran over to meet up with us. The other Sitri servants gave us words of encouragement like 'we will leave the offence to you guys' or 'let us welcome tomorrow together', and then we swiftly ran towards Kyoto station. The Gremory group plus Irina and Saji. This was the attacking team advancing towards Nijou Castle.

"Good, let's set off for Nijou Castle."

And so, we directly advanced towards the place Cao Cao indicated, Nijou Castle—

"This dimension, can it be that vast? It happens to be comparable to the size of this map, which is centred around Nijou Castle."

[Yes, this dimension has recreated Kyoto's vast streets with Nijou Castle at its centre. Though one wouldn't be surprised at the battlegrounds of the Rating Game, which are equally vast, it looks like the spellcaster has researched the game fields of the Rating Game in depth.]

As Kiba spoke in self-mockery, I also sighed. Once we confirmed with one another, we set off into the confines of Nijou Castle.

"Before he fell, the assassin I defeated said that Cao Cao was waiting for us at Honmaru Palace."

Kiba spoke as we walked. Honmaru Palace, eh? Within the boundaries of Nijou castle, we walked past the gardens of Ninomaru Palace, and could already see the moat around Honmaru Palace. We then passed through the yaguramo[3] gate that connected to Honmaru Palace. The place we reached was full of rows of ancient Japanese eaves. The garden was swept nice and clean. These were all illuminated by lights, so even in the dark world of the night, it was as bright as day.

"—Strike first and end the battle. Taste my sword!"

As if retorting against the protests in my heart, Xenovia smashed her massive sword of holy light and aura down upon the heads of the Hero Faction! Like the felling of a heavy log, the new Durandal crashed down to smash them.

Crash!

A massive aura pulse engulfed buildings, structures and the entire scenery! The ground split into two, with the resulting tremor causing everyone to fall to their knees! After the attack, the entire area—was a total mess. The massive aura attack had also crossed over Nijou Castle's moat and even destroyed outside buildings and roads further beyond, leaving nothing behind! ...Shocking! What devastating offensive power!

...Once I regained my senses, I found myself in the white space. ...What was this phenomenon? I should be fighting at Honmaru Palace in Nijou Castle. And then, two people appeared in front of the confused me. It was Elsha-san and a fashionably dressed man. This was inside the Boosted Gear...? So only my consciousness flew here?

I apologize for posting too many quotes but this is just to establish that the fight against the Hero Faction and the location where Issei shot his Dragon Blaster is indeed where Nijou Castle is.

Now that it's established that the location of the fight against the Hero Faction is taking place in the middle of Kyoto, this tells us that everyone in the fight is in the middle of Kyoto. This is important to keep note of to figure out how did the blast from Dragon Blaster go.


Let's look at the explosion part of the quote:


KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

A large explosion shook the entire space while the city in the background was engulfed by the gigantic aura! ...The energy continued to spread, surrounding the entire city with intense light! As the bright light faded, nothing was left! The cannon blast eliminated the entire scenery, and even the game field was affected as the artificial dimension began to show signs of distortion!

"...He destroyed the whole city! Hey! If he keeps firing, this dimension won't last!"

Here's the pages with the boxes I indicated which one's which:


Legend:

Blue box indicates the original raw for the quote above

Red Box indicates the specific kanji used for the supposed "city"

Green Box indicates Heracles's quote in regards to what happened in the background

Pay attention to the ones that are boxed in red, which are these kanjis: þö║õ©ªÒü┐, þö║Õà¿õ¢ô, and þö║

The kanji þö║ can mean town, block, neighborhood, street , or city


þö║õ©ªÒü┐ can mean townscape or cityscape

The context behind "entire city" and "whole city" seems weird given the location the fight is taking place at. If the explosion actually covered the entire Kyoto, then the Hero Faction, Issei, and co. would be hit by the blast given that they are located in the middle of Kyoto which won't make sense given that no one actually got hit by the blast (the blast didn't even reach them)


What does this sum up to?

Given that:

1. Issei was in the location where Nijou castle is, which is in the middle of Kyoto

2. No one got hit by the explosion from Dragon Blaster

3. Given how townscape or cityscape is implied given the kanji along with other context reliant kanji involved in the quote, it's most likely that Issei is describing what's happening in front of his view after he fired the shot.

Given the above, it's most likely that the Dragon Blaster destroyed only a portion of Kyoto replica as opposed to destroying the entire Kyoto replica

One may argue that the fight might have got relocated to the edge of Kyoto. While this positioning will make the blowing up the entire Kyoto while no one getting hit by the explosion logical, one must prove that a relocation happened before Issei fired the Dragon Blaster. The problem here is that in part 4 of the chapter, before Issei gets to talk to Elsha and Belzard, it was stated that he should be still fighting at Honmaru Palace in Ninjou Castle (see one of the quotes above) and the entirity of part 4 is his conversation with Elsha and Belzard. By the time it gets to part 5 of the chapter, in the beginning of it is when he start transforming into Welsh Blaster Bishop so fight getting relocated from Nijou Castle to another place in Kyoto in between part 4 and 5 is out of question.


What's the proposed change if this goes through?

The change could be something like this for Triana Key:

Mountain level (Significantly more powerful than before. Obliterated a large portion of a complete and sturdier replication of Kyoto created by Dimension Lost using Dragon Blaster on top of causing distortion to the dimension.)

Why would the tier remain the same?

Even if he only destroyed maybe about half the Kyoto replica, note that it's sturdier than the original one while causing distortions of the dimension itself and said dimension was created by a high-tier Longinus, Dimension Lost. Add the fact that Triana is stronger than regular BxB just points as to why the tier will still remain the same


Why mention this despite the tiers not changing or this just being a minor detail?


As minor as it is, given how VS wiki doing it's best to be as reliable and accurate as possible, I think it's important to present the feats as accurately as possible despite how minor the detail is.


BONUS FROM DXD HERO:

Here's the snapshot of where this particuar feat was done

And you can see here that Issei was getting his Dragon Blaster ready inside the crater Xenovia made

Here's how it looks like when it was fired

Also, later on after Dragon Blaster was fired, after the arrival of first gen Sun Wukong and Yu-Long's arrival, you can see in the background that there are lots of buildings in the city that were still intact.

 

[Krudelu]

At the moment, I don't have the raw scans for Volume 9 so I can't check up on "entire city" and "whole city" part at the moment.

 

[Demonicjester01]

I think that author intent is something that should be taken into account here. When writing it, Ishibumi likely was not focusing on the location the fight was taking place in, but the author intent is that the blast was enough to destroy the entire city. As far as I know, author intent (Word of God) would take precedence over technicalities such as this.

 

[Krudelu]

Technicalities do matter in this case

Yes author intent matters but you also have to take other author intents into account as well and see if they make sense when put together.

You cannot just simply ignore the fact that the fight took place in Nijou Castle which is tied to the plot of Volume 9 (meaning it have to happen there) and the fact that no one got gaught up on the blast as the aftermath after Dragon Blaster being fired which also allows for Issei VS Cao Cao fight to continue.

The location of the fight and what happens after the blast contradicts the "whole city" description.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

As I said in the discussion thread, the reasoning at least is sound to me.

 

[Demonicjester01]

@Krudelu You didn't understand what I meant. The author intent you bring up as a counterpoint is unrelated to the one I proposed. One is intent to determine the amount of power of Issei's blast, while the other is related to simply giving a setup for the battle so the reader can have a background.

Ishibumi was not taking into account the location of the battle when it came to the display of power of the Dragon Blaster, and saying "destroyed a portion of the city" is not comparable to saying "destroyed the entire city", as a "portion" is incredibly vague and could refer to as little as a street block. Ishibumi did not intend such, and as I said, "Word of God" should take absolute precedence especially over technicalities which are unrelated to the intent in question. Ishibumi was not using the location to limit the amount that Issei could do, he did not even take it into account. If the wiki went by such technicalities, then we should say that Goku vs Beerus was not a fight between galaxy-busters because the aftershock of their attacks did not kill even normal humans like Bulma, even though it should have been enough to blow up the earth from the first clash.

If you want to change it so badly, then you could change it for something like "Issei's Dragon Blaster is capable of destroying the entirety of a much sturdier replica of Kyoto". In this sort of statement it doesn't say that the city is destroyed per se which is what bothers you, while also carrying the author's intent for the blast's power, which your proposed statement does not.

 

[Krudelu]

Apologies for the late reply again but I'll try to reply asap on future replies

@Demonicjecter01
What was in the profile is how the feat was described (Obliterated a complete and sturdier replication of Kyoto), which is the one that's trying to be changed.


The entire intent in that scene is that he fired the cannons towards the Hero Faction only for it to be evaded and cause destruction in the background on top of causing distortions while the blast doesn't hit anybody, which leads to continued fight between Issei and Cao Cao and have Issei demonstrate his other Triana forms. Using "Ishibumi was not taking into account the location of the battle" as an argument gives an impression that he made an error in writing as opposed to his overall intentions for the scene instead rather than prove that's what could have exactly happened in the feat.


Technicalities DO matter especially when you have multiple author intents in the equation when trying to figure out what could have exactly transpired in the said feat and to determine the validity of the feat. If we don't take technicalities into account over a single author intent (described the blast to cover the entire Kyoto replica) that's contradicted by other author's intents (fight takes place in Nijou Castle which is a crucual location for the Hero Faction to enact their experiment and nobody got hit by the blast from Dragon Blaster), then we would be having the profiles in this wiki rated based on some other questionable things like PIS or outlier feats left and right.


"Issei's Dragon Blaster is capable of destroying the entirety of a much sturdier replica of Kyoto" is just basically a reworded version of what's in the profile. If I'm only going to end up changing the wording, then there won't be a point for me to do this CRT in the first place.


In regards to Goku VS Beerus on their first clash as an argument for technicalities, Goku has been trying to perfect the nullification of shockwaves on their first 2 clashes and the reason why there's still shockwaves on their first 2 clashes that's weak enough to not kill normal humans on Earth, and destroy Earth and their Solar System that the shockwaves only get stronger as it travels farther from the center is because Goku haven't perfected the nullification technique on his first 2 tries. Using the case of aftershock in Goku VS Beerus to compare to Issei's blast to dismiss technicalities is false equivalence. You can read up on the Goku VS Beerus part more here


"A portion" can still imply a huge fraction but since the word seem "weaker", I'll at least change it to "a large portion" if that would help indicate that it affected a big area.


As a bonus, DxD HerO even portrayed that Dragon Blaster's blast didn't cover the entirety of Kyoto replica

 

[Demonicjester01]

Most of the reply is just reiterating what you previously said so I will just reply to the new material for the sake of brevity.

"If we don't take technicalities into account over a single author intent (described the blast to cover the entire Kyoto replica) that's contradicted by other author's intents (fight takes place in Nijou Castle which is a crucual location for the Hero Faction to enact their experiment and nobody got hit by the blast from Dragon Blaster), then we would be having the profiles in this wiki rated based on some other questionable things like PIS or outlier feats left and right."

I have seen plenty of profiles rated on outliers, for one, so you'd be kinda late on worrying about that. But even taking this into account, your thread is based around simply changing the wording, by your own admission tiers are not being changed or such, so your analogy with profiles being rated in imperfect ways is not applicable.

""Issei's Dragon Blaster is capable of destroying the entirety of a much sturdier replica of Kyoto" is just basically a reworded version of what's in the profile. If I'm only going to end up changing the wording, then there won't be a point for me to do this CRT in the first place."

Not really. Both sentences carry out completely different meanings. The current sentence carries out a fact, and event that happened, while the one I mentioned as a change carries out a message about potential, which is completely different. Are you gonna say that "I killed that man" is just different wording for "I could kill that man"? Because that's completely incorrect.

The Goku vs Beerus thing is just one example out of many I could mention. I could also mention how Gigamesh's Ea (Fate) is described as planet-level in this wiki despite the fact that it didn't even destroy the Ryuudou Temple with its aftershock when used at full power in Fate/stay night. Or how most of the characters moving at light speed or beyond do not lift houses and cause cataclysms with the amount of wind pressure they should produce (hell, the fact alone that characters are accepted as speeds beyond that of liight even though it should be impossible). Or Cell, the Solar System buster launching attacks that to not destroy even Mr.Satan and his entourage with their aftershock. The list goes on and on.

""A portion" can still imply a huge fraction but since the word seem "weaker", I'll at least change it to "a large portion" if that would help indicate that it affected a big area."

Maybe? I guess? That still seems like something that would result in a tier change, which kinda fails to coincide with your original post.

"As a bonus, DxD HerO even portrayed that Dragon Blaster's blast didn't cover the entirety of Kyoto replica"

Close to nothing can be distinguished in that screenshot between what would be part of the city and what would not be. It doesn't really help any position here, yours or mine.

 

[GoodDaySir]

Personally I am neutral in this, busting half of Kyoto yields 92 Megaton, which is high end City Level, but if we consider that all Issei's form gets stronger later on, Mountain level is justifiable.

 

[Krudelu]

@Demonicjester01

I have seen plenty of profiles rated on outliers, for one, so you'd be kinda late on worrying about that. But even taking this into account, your thread is based around simply changing the wording, by your own admission tiers are not being changed or such, so your analogy with profiles being rated in imperfect ways is not applicable.

Like? What are these outlier feats you speak of that got accepted to justify the tiers for the profiles in this wiki (especially for the well established verses, where using outlier feats to determine ratings are a huge no)? Outliers are not accepted in this wiki and can't be used to determine the rating of characters. Whenever the seemingly outlier feats get accepted, they tend to have proper justification threads for them and those threads tend to prove that said feats in question are not outliers.And no, if there were ratings that were based on outliers, it's never too late to make a CRT of them unless said feat that's deemed as outliers are actually not outliers.


And no, the thread is not based around just changing the wording. This is about presenting what exactly transpired in the feat based on additional information behind it (mainly the location and the fact that no one got hit by the initial bast). Yes I made an admission of tiers not changing due to other factors, which includes the fact that Kyoto replica is sturdier and was created by a high-tier Longinus so there's more to take into account in terms of what's the Dragon Blaster's potency despite the AoE not covering the entirety of Kyoto replica.

The analogy was that if most technicalities were ignored, most of the profiles' ratings will be based on questionable things like PIS and outliers so it's stil

Analogy with profiles being rated in imperfect ways to what? All I said was that if technicalities were ignored then questionable things like outliers and PIS will be used to rate characters, which is the reason why technicalities do matter.

Not really. Both sentences carry out completely different meanings. The current sentence carries out a fact, and event that happened, while the one I mentioned as a change carries out a message about potential, which is completely different. Are you gonna say that "I killed that man" is just different wording for "I could kill that man"? Because that's completely incorrect.

Yes I agree that they have different meaning.The problem is that the quote in the novel doesn't indicate anything like "He can destroy the entirety of Kyoto replica" statements but instead describes what happened after the shot was fired, which is where the revision is being based on.

The Goku vs Beerus thing is just one example out of many I could mention. I could also mention how Gigamesh's Ea (Fate) is described as planet-level in this wiki despite the fact that it didn't even destroy the Ryuudou Temple with its aftershock when used at full power in Fate/stay night. Or how most of the characters moving at light speed or beyond do not lift houses and cause cataclysms with the amount of wind pressure they should produce (hell, the fact alone that characters are accepted as speeds beyond that of liight even though it should be impossible). Or Cell, the Solar System buster launching attacks that to not destroy even Mr.Satan and his entourage with their aftershock. The list goes on and on.

Gilgamesh's Ea (Fate) wasn't even fully charged when he used it in the Fate route. Also, even if you want to think that he did fully charged it based on when he said "I will not hold back in that case" , you have to take into account that the Enuma Elish that was fired that time could have been compressed to begin with. Besides, there was no mention of Ryuudou Temple being destroyed by the attack when he fired it in the first place so this is not even comparable to Issei's Dragon Blaster's case of writing. And the justification for his fully charged Enuma Elish being planet level does not even include anything from Fate route anyway.

Not all speed feats produce cataclysms that's true but if certain speed feats do produce them, they'll be described if they happened or not.

I presume that this is referring to Super Perfect Cell. Mr. Satan was far away enough for the aftershocks to not even hit him to begin with.

Yes Goku vs Beerus was one of the examples you could mention but it's an example that just amounts to false equivalences just like your other examples provided here.

Just a reminder again: Issei's case is that it was described that the initial blast destroyed the entirety of Kyoto replica when describing what's happening in the background as the shot goes farther to the background after it got evaded so you cannot use the aftershock doing the destruction in this case especially when there are no mentions of it.

Maybe? I guess? That still seems like something that would result in a tier change, which kinda fails to coincide with your original post.

Remember that the feat was done in a sturdier replication of Kyoto created by one of the high-tier Longinus, Dimension Lost, and there's also the fact that it caused distortions in the dimension itself. Tier won't change since the durability of the dimension itself needs to be taken into account here, which is not something easy to exactly quantify. Even blowing up the entirety of Kyoto replica would create a tier change on it's own as opposed to his tier in regular BxB's mountain busting feat in Volume 5 but Triana key is in similar tier as regular BxB due to how it's stronger than regular BxB. Also, there were hints of vaporization on the parts that were destroyed by Dragon Blaster so that's another factor as to why the tiers won't change that easily and the current tier for Triana is safer.

Close to nothing can be distinguished in that screenshot between what would be part of the city and what would not be. It doesn't really help any position here, yours or mine

The snapshot I provided in the last post was meant to show the shape of the blast, which should be a given how it didn't affect the entirety of Kyoto replica.

If you wanted more proof from DxD HerO in regards to their location:
Here's the snapshot of where this particuar feat was done

And you can see here that Issei was getting his Dragon Blaster ready inside the crater Xenovia made


Also, later on after Dragon Blaster was fired, after the arrival of first gen Sun Wukong and Yu-Long's arrival, you can see in the background that there are lots of buildings in the city that were still intact.

I might as well put the DxD HerO snapshots in the initial post

@GoodDaySir

Personally I am neutral in this, busting half of Kyoto yields 92 Megaton, which is high end City Level, but if we consider that all Issei's form gets stronger later on, Mountain level is justifiable.

As I stated, there's no tier change that's going to happen here so Mountain level Triana is still a safer bet. Also, destroying maybe half the Kyoto that's sturdier than the original one while causing distortions of the dimension itself and said dimension was created by a high-tier Longinus, Dimension Lost, just points to why the tier will still remain the same. What's being proposed here is that the way the feat that's described in the profile is what is being changed.

I think this is important if we're trying to be as reliable and accurate as possible in terms of information displayed in the profiles.

This is why the title of this thread is"Kyoto Replica Feat Explained" as opposed to hinting an upgrade or a downgrade in the title. The intent of this thread is to present how the feat was portrayed and change the misinformation in the profile displayed in regards to how the feat is presented.

In my proposed changes, even I kept the Mountain level there and change what exactly happened about the Kyoto feat instead. Even I stressed it out at the end of the initial post as to why even do this even if the tiers won't change.


Maybe I should just edit the initial post and include as to why the tier won't change. I already posted the reason why the change is important even if said changes doesn't do a tier change so I won't repeat it again.

 

[Krudelu]

Okay, I'll include the reason as to why the tier will remain the same and the snapshots from DxD HerO as a bonus in the initial post of the thread

 

[Elizhaa]

Personally I am neutral in this, busting half of Kyoto yields 92 Megaton, which is high end City Level, but if we consider that all Issei's form gets stronger later on, Mountain level is justifiable.

Well, this point is my view, too.

 

[Krudelu]

Raws added in the initial post

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

The proposal still looks logical to me, especially with the new clarification from the raws.