High School DxD Downgrade: 2-A Cosmology

[SCARECROW1983]

Get the thing of the game/crossover out of here. And I need to see the scan too.

Sorry bro but this is something that can't just be denied, it's a totally official and canonical medium, literally even within the novel there is crossover of this style.

Scan

 

[MasqueTLDF]

personally think re:build stuff should wait until its completely translated

 

[Digital_Franz]

Sorry bro but this is something that can't just be denied, it's a totally official and canonical medium, literally even within the novel there is crossover of this style.

Scan

Yeah the crossover. This was rejected. Bro want to get Saenai Heroine to 2-A.

 

[SCARECROW1983]

Yeah the crossover. This was rejected. Bro want to get Saenai Heroine to 2-A.

They didn't reject it lol, it wasn't used because it didn't have an English translation and what does that other verse have to do with it? Fantasy rebuild was written by ishibumi and he added it to the novels himself.

 

[SCARECROW1983]

personally think re:build stuff should wait until its completely translated

It is still an official medium and the scan has already been translated by a friend who knows Japanese.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@SCARECROW1983

Until the game gets accepted as canon here, anything coming from it is worthless for the purpose of this thread.

 

[Digital_Franz]

They didn't reject it lol, it wasn't used because it didn't have an English translation and what does that other verse have to do with it? Fantasy rebuild was written by ishibumi and he added it to the novels himself.

Already discussed this with you on discord a while ago. The fact that he wrote it himself doesn't change much for me.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

It is still an official medium and the scan has already been translated by a friend who knows Japanese.

i get that, just think, like, there's probably more scans or surrounding context that'd need to be found in the rest of the game to fully grasp the bigger picture y'know. Not meaning to disagree with you, feel free to use what you'd like in your argument.

 

[SCARECROW1983]

Already discussed this with you on discord a while ago. The fact that he wrote it himself doesn't change much for me.

It's good that an opinion is worthless on this topic. An opinion does not deny facts. The fact of having an opinion on something does not change that something.

 

[Eseseso]

OP seems fine.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Neutral temporally

I almost died laughing reading the OP.

 

[MrTayman616]

The first scan, the funniest of all. It talks about breasts. Literally breasts. This scan is unusable. Contrary to what the one who upgraded the verse claims, this does not correlate in any way with the timelines, being here only his own addition. The scan talks about what he can do with breasts, as seen in episode 5 of DxD Hero where he summoned Rias Gremory just to press her breasts and get a powerup, nothing more here. Another funny passage where Rias's big brother suggested him to use Boost on Rias' breasts. These are the possibilities in question.

I'm just here to laugh at people who accepted this scan without context

 

[Digital_Franz]

I'm just here to laugh at people who accepted this scan without context

The justification of our wankers:

to add more detail, the Oppai scans reference the infinite possibilities of the powers Issei could obtain from them and how he could obtain them, directly correlating to the differences between the timelines. Issei unlock Dress Break during V1 in the anime while in the LN, it's Volume 2. He first uses Pailingual during the events of Volume 6 in the anime, while in the LN, it's Volume 5. Issei first uses Pailingual to see past events in volume 9 of the anime while it's Volume 7 of the LN

 

[MrTayman616]

The justification of our wankers:

Issei finds it acceptable.

 

[MasqueTLDF]

The justification of our wankers:

Could you please not call anyone in this thread that? I personally find the term very derogatory.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Could you please not call anyone in this thread that? I personally find the term very derogatory.

Oh sure. My apologies if I offended you.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Hmmm... Boobies!

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Real shit.

Agree.

 

[Forthegood]

It's not a question of lying but of changing the terms. Genrated=/=created. With the possibilities we must make the difference.

This kinda feels like reaching doesn't it imply that the possibilities are "created"?

 

[Digital_Franz]

This kinda feels like reaching doesn't it imply that the possibilities are "created"?

Not at all. I'll take a simple example: if a soccer ball is thrown at you, possibilities will be generated. You can get hit by the ball, dodge it or receive it and do a bunch of stuff. These possibilities however are not "created" in the form of timelines or at least the term "generate" does not imply that. It's the same thing with match formations.

 

[Dragongod224]

If I understand correctly (correct me if I am wrong), in DxD, timelines are created at different events, and every different event has its own timeline. Even possibilities or impossibilities has his own timeline.

For example, in High School DxD light novel, during Loki fight where Issei used his ability on Akeno and connected to the Fairy of the Goddess of Breast, and got a blessing. But in the anime Season 3, during the Loki fight, Issei didn't use his ability on Akeno.

And there are timelines where Freed Sellzen is still alive (Twitter timeline), but in the anime and light novel, he is dead.
Also, there is a "dream" Freed Sellzen saw, where he tries to kill Asia, but Kiba killed him, which is the anime and light novel timeline (I think maybe in DxD, dreams are actually different timelines).

Rias in Wonderland is a different timeline, where the Bible doesn't exist.

Now, the thing is, the Breast is used as an example for the timeline by MasqueTLDF, which follows this:
Issei gains a power-up from the Breast in a different time than originally (light novel) timeline, creating a new timeline, the anime timeline, where a few different events happen, which originally didn't happen in the original timeline, or already happened in the original timeline, or later happen, creating a timeline.


And for Telos Karma, Telos Karma has the ability to make possible or impossible things happen, and there are countable infinite possibilities or impossibilities.

The thing Digital_Franz is rejecting is that Telos Karma creates new timelines, which may be right, because Telos Karma has the ability to forcibly make things happen, which becomes the original timeline for its users.
But if Digital_Franz is rejecting that there are infinite possibilities or impossibilities that have their own timeline, which are different from the original timeline (light novel), then he is wrong here, because, as you can see in the example, there are timelines where Freed Sellzen is still alive, which is a different timeline than the original timeline (light novel). And more example

So, I think DxD has infinite timelines with infinite possibilities or impossibilities, where different events have happened or not happened, as their own timeline.

 

[Digital_Franz]

This is really not encouraging.

If I understand correctly (correct me if I am wrong), in DxD, timelines are created at different events, and every different event has its own timeline. Even possibilities or impossibilities has his own timeline.

Yeah no. Timelines are not created at different events, at least it is not stated anywhere. I am not here to assume, otherwise we can place all verses in this wiki at minimum 2-A cosmologically.

For example, in High School DxD light novel, during Loki fight where Issei used his ability on Akeno and connected to the Fairy of the Goddess of Breast, and got a blessing. But in the anime Season 3, during the Loki fight, Issei didn't use his ability on Akeno.

Yeah, those are the different timelines, with their different sets of events, which in itself doesn't mean anything.

And there are timelines where Freed Sellzen is still alive (Twitter timeline), but in the anime and light novel, he is dead.
Also, there is a "dream" Freed Sellzen saw, where he tries to kill Asia, but Kiba killed him, which is the anime and light novel timeline (I think maybe in DxD, dreams are actually different timelines).

Doesn't mean much.

Rias in Wonderland is a different timeline, where the Bible doesn't exist.

Yeah sure. Good thing for me.

Now, the thing is, the Breast is used as an example for the timeline by MasqueTLDF, which follows this:
Issei gains a power-up from the Breast in a different time than originally (light novel) timeline, creating a new timeline, the anime timeline, where a few different events happen, which originally didn't happen in the original timeline, or already happened in the original timeline, or later happen, creating a timeline.

This is: the possibilities in question do not refer to the differences between timelines, in any way, no scan supports this claim.

And for Telos Karma, Telos Karma has the ability to make possible or impossible things happen, and there are countable infinite possibilities or impossibilities.

Yeah "possibilities". The term itself is self-explanatory. Without the MWI "possibilities" remain "possibilities" and nothing more.

The thing Digital_Franz is rejecting is that Telos Karma creates new timelines, which may be right, because Telos Karma has the ability to forcibly make things happen, which becomes the original timeline for its users.

That's pretty much the point. It actually forces a possibility to happen and since it was just a possibility, it just happens in the present.

But if Digital_Franz is rejecting that there are infinite possibilities or impossibilities that have their own timeline, which are different from the original timeline (light novel), then he is wrong here, because, as you can see in the example, there are timelines where Freed Sellzen is still alive, which is a different timeline than the original timeline (light novel). And more example

Just because there are multiple timelines doesn't mean they are infinite. A verse with MWI gets stuck at 2-B without further context. Even taking the context of Telos Karma and the rock, there are no infinite possibilities mentioned, leaving even the fact that yeah they are invalid.

So, I think DxD has infinite timelines with infinite possibilities or impossibilities, where different events have happened or not happened, as their own timeline.

You need much better evidence to support your claim and unfortunately all the "solid" evidence for the verse are already here.

 

[SCARECROW1983]

This is really not encouraging.


Yeah no. Timelines are not created at different events, at least it is not stated anywhere. I am not here to assume, otherwise we can place all verses in this wiki at minimum 2-A cosmologically.

If the timelines are not created in different events how do you explain the timeline where Freed is alive or where the biblical one does not exist? At least you have a scan that proves your point

Yeah, those are the different timelines, with their different sets of events, which in itself doesn't mean anything.

Wouldn't you be contradicting your first point here? Since here it is shown that an event changed and made a totally different story.

Doesn't mean much.

Why doesn't a timeline that was clearly not created by a change in the past mean much? Your main point about there being no MWI is that it is limited to changes in the past.

Yeah sure. Good thing for me.

Why is it okay with you? It literally gives more weight to the existence of infinite possibilities (if it's because Issei doesn't have powers then it doesn't really affect anything)

This is: the possibilities in question do not refer to the differences between timelines, in any way, no scan supports this claim.

You are not backing up these counter-claims either, that scan was used because it shows changes between the different timelines.

Yeah "possibilities". The term itself is self-explanatory. Without the MWI "possibilities" remain "possibilities" and nothing more.

So how do you explain the existence of ExE and FxF? Or even the universe of Oda Nobuna no Yabō even with ExE the existence of more parallel worlds is shown

That's pretty much the point. It actually forces a possibility to happen and since it was just a possibility, it just happens in the present.

And I explain again that Telos karmas were not used because they literally create parallel worlds, otherwise for each action taken a parallel world would be created. (You should read the scan of Telos Karma literally says that you choose the impossible option from all the possible options that can occur in an action)

Just because there are multiple timelines doesn't mean they are infinite. A verse with MWI gets stuck at 2-B without further context. Even taking the context of Telos Karma and the rock, there are no infinite possibilities mentioned, leaving even the fact that yeah they are invalid.

The telos karma thing is only used to explain how a possibility is created (the example of the stone) and that it can help in the creation of a possible world, And this is where the infinite possibilities of people and breasts come in.

You need much better evidence to support your claim and unfortunately all the "solid" evidence for the verse are already here.

You also haven't provided any evidence, you just say that they are "irrelevant" when they contradict your main argument that there is no MWI in DxD.

 

[Digital_Franz]

If the timelines are not created in different events how do you explain the timeline where Freed is alive or where the biblical one does not exist? At least you have a scan that proves your point

There are some What-Ifs written by the author.

Wouldn't you be contradicting your first point here? Since here it is shown that an event changed and made a totally different story.

Uh no. Timelines were written differently by the author. That doesn't mean that it was because of a difference in events that they were created.

Why doesn't a timeline that was clearly not created by a change in the past mean much? Your main point about there being no MWI is that it is limited to changes in the past.

Because the Twitter timeline is a What-If written by the author just to explore a perspective, it wasn't really created by the main story itself.

Why is it okay with you? It literally gives more weight to the existence of infinite possibilities (if it's because Issei doesn't have powers then it doesn't really affect anything)

Uh yeah the difference in how Issei gets his powers from his boobs that miraculously correlates with the timelines. I wonder what's going on here since he doesn't have any powers.

You are not backing up these counter-claims either, that scan was used because it shows changes between the different timelines.

This is not the game actually. You are in need of backup your claims because scans don't do it.

So how do you explain the existence of ExE and FxF? Or even the universe of Oda Nobuna no Yabō even with ExE the existence of more parallel worlds is shown.

Well explained, stories written by the author. These little side quests of his are really a pain in the feet for you.

And I explain again that Telos karmas were not used because they literally create parallel worlds, otherwise for each action taken a parallel world would be created.

Telos Karma does not create a world. The scans are clear on it, only Innovate Clear creates a world.

(You should read the scan of Telos Karma literally says that you choose the impossible option from all the possible options that can occur in an action)

What is this supposed to add? A typical case of Probability Manipulation. Little note: "can occur"=>do not exist, are just in the form of possible events.

The telos karma thing is only used to explain how a possibility is created (the example of the stone) and that it can help in the creation of a possible world, And this is where the infinite possibilities of people and breasts come in.

All our actions generate possibilities but worlds are not created. Yeah no the scans do not mention any creation of timelines.

You also haven't provided any evidence, you just say that they are "irrelevant" when they contradict your main argument that there is no MWI in DxD.

Uh, that's what you think. So far no one has been able to send a scan showing that the splits aren't just happening because of time travel or a modification in the past.

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

The only timelines we know of are the anime timeline, the LN timeline, the original timeline, the What-If timeline, and the future timeline, for a total of 5.
Thanks to DxD EX we know that there are more timelines than those 5 but we are never given an exact number, we are only told that a large number of timelines were generated and that they continue to be generated. Well, they can be infinite.

That DxD EX timeline is on a singular timeline as the original timeline where if issei’s children made one singular mistake, it result changes of the future, which is issei’s children’s time point

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

I wholly accept this CRT on the fundamental level
‍
Issei should be downgrading to 5-B if this got accepted

 

[Dragongod224]

@Digital_Franz

so you are saying different timelines exist
And the Twitter timeline are some what-if written by author and don't mean with infinite possible timeline
And split in timeline happens only by time travel (high school dxd ex)
And telos karma has possibilities manipulation of world and possibilities of telos karma don't has different timeline


And so with this can you tell how many timeline are exist currently in dxd because you don't tell as how many timeline with 2-C in dxd because after high school dxd ex large number of timelines are create so maybe it in 2-B if not 2A so atleast tell as how many timeline are in 2-C

 

[Dragongod224]

I wholly accept this CRT on the fundamental level
‍
Issei should be downgrading to 5-B if this got accepted

He don't you know because he already got accepted galaxy level with boots in dxd form So he don't going to 5-B even if it's accepted

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

He don't you know because he already got accepted galaxy level with boots in dxd form So he don't going to 5-B even if it's accepted

Still a significant tiering downgrade nevertheless ️

 

[Digital_Franz]

@Digital_Franz

so you are saying different timelines exist
And the Twitter timeline are some what-if written by author and don't mean with infinite possible timeline
And split in timeline happens only by time travel (high school dxd ex)
And telos karma has possibilities manipulation of world and possibilities of telos karma don't has different timeline

Yeah.

And so with this can you tell how many timeline are exist currently in dxd because you don't tell as how many timeline with 2-C in dxd because after high school dxd ex large number of timelines are create so maybe it in 2-B if not 2A so atleast tell as how many timeline are in 2-C

Uh it is true that it is said that the number of timelines spawned was quite large but uh that statement alone is just 2-C. There is not even a possibly 2-B. There are a large number of timelines although less than 1000.

 

[Dragongod224]

Yeah.

Uh it is true that it is said that the number of timelines spawned was quite large but uh that statement alone is just 2-C. There is not even a possibly 2-B. There are a large number of timelines although less than 1000.

And how less than 1000 not higher when any exact number are not given and dxd main universe only one Earth universe has more than 20 universe, and even atleast 5 timeline are confirmed by proxy 20x5= 100 universe and ExE, FxF and their are other parallel universe ExE god attack before coming in dxd they all get more universe by proxy

Even it's say large number of timelines are create and you saying it's don't even possibly reach 46 timeline even it's don't give any exact number ( so tell me how it's not even possibly 2-B)

At this point of time you are just ignoring things from dxd which are provided or previously accepted to make your self valid

 

[Digital_Franz]

And how less than 1000 not higher when any exact number are not given and dxd main universe only one Earth universe has more than 20 universe, and even atleast 5 timeline are confirmed by proxy 20x5= 100 universe and ExE, FxF and their are other parallel universe ExE god attack before coming in dxd they all get more universe by proxy

Even it's say large number of timelines are create and you saying it's don't even possibly reach 46 timeline

Yeah there's no indication it reaches that, I'm not here to assume, I'm just scaling to a minimum.

 

[Dragongod224]

Yeah there's no indication it reaches that,

Yes their are, but you just ignoring infinite Possibilities things with out any contents for dxd to make your point valid which are previously accepted
And you even saying even not possible to reach 46 with out any contents form dxd

I'm not here to assume, I'm just scaling to a minimum.

Even it's consider minimum assume you know

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm just here to say that, Anime have different events because Anime studio which is TNK animation studio decided to adapt the LN differently, anime director literally went against Ishibumi source material to make his thing, which Ishi didn't like, thus the whole drama with Hero having different animation studio and episode 0 retconned the events of Born, and DxD EX was made to fix the anime mess iirc, just that, nothing more, idk why you guys interpreting it as a deep and complex cosmology mechanic

Also, anime adaptation from LN having different events and cut stuffs from the source material have always been an usual thing

Telos Karma didn't make any world, it is the ability of Innovative Clear, Mitsuya combine Telos Karma allow Mitsuya to force outcome within the world that Innovative Clear created. However iirc, the world is unknown in size, probably just a pocket dimension, just because it make world, doesn't mean world = timeline, that is hasty generalization fallacy

 

[Digital_Franz]

Yes their are, but you just ignoring infinite Possibilities things with out any contents for dxd to make your point valid which are previously accepted

The infinite possibilities stuff is uh being debunked. That's the purpose of this thread.

And you even saying even not possible to reach 46 with out any contents form dxd

Yeah, 30 is so large for me.

Even it's consider minimum assume you know

Wut?

 

[Digital_Franz]

I'm just here to say that, Anime have different events because Anime studio which is TNK animation studio decided to adapt the LN differently, anime director literally went against Ishibumi source material to make his thing, which Ishi didn't like, thus the whole drama with Hero having different animation studio and episode 0 retconned the events of Born and DxD EX, just that, nothing more, idk why you guys interpreting it as a deep and complex cosmology mechanic

I am so shocked. They have been claiming this ever since but with no basis. I said it is just their own theories and interpretations to try to make the scan something it is not.

Also, anime adaptation from LN having different events and cut stuffs from the source material have always been an usual thing

They seem to ignore it.

Telos Karma didn't make any world, it is the ability of Innovative Clear, Mitsuya combine Telos Karma allow Mitsuya to force outcome within the world that Innovative Clear created. However iirc, the world is unknown in size, probably just a pocket dimension, just because it make world, doesn't mean world = timeline, that is hasty generalization fallacy

Uh thanks for the clarification. I forgot that yeah some worlds aren't even universes.

 

[Dragongod224]

Yeah, 30 is so large for me.

If 30 is so large for you ExE god attack many worlds before coming to dxd likely 5 so many for you

 

[Dragongod224]

I'm just here to say that, Anime have different events because Anime studio which is TNK animation studio decided to adapt the LN differently, anime director literally went against Ishibumi source material to make his thing, which Ishi didn't like, thus the whole drama with Hero having different animation studio and episode 0 retconned the events of Born and DxD EX, just that, nothing more, idk why you guys interpreting it as a deep and complex cosmology mechanic

Also, anime adaptation from LN having different events and cut stuffs from the source material have always been an usual thing

But not for dxd since it's very controversial and currently accepted as different timeline in vs battle wiki

Telos Karma didn't make any world, it is the ability of Innovative Clear, Mitsuya combine Telos Karma allow Mitsuya to force outcome within the world that Innovative Clear created. However iirc, the world is unknown in size, probably just a pocket dimension, just because it make world, doesn't mean world = timeline, that is hasty generalization fallacy

Her think innovative clear as ability to create dimension but we're not talking about this her
But telos karma's possibilities things

 

[Digital_Franz]

If 30 is so large for you ExE god attack many worlds before coming to dxd likely 5 so many for you

Yeah exactly.

 

[Vietthai96]

Edit: i updated a minor part of my comment about DxD EX since i think it can cause misunderstanding

Anyway iirc, due to the mess of TNK with DxD anime season 3 (DxD BorN) messed up badly due to how extremely it deviate from source material (the director guy literally made thing that not even in the LN), Ishibumi the author of DxD decided to make DxD EX with time travel to fix the mess of anime, way later we have anime season 4 with a whole episode 0 dedicated to fix the mess of season 3

But not for dxd since it's very controversial and currently accepted as different timeline in vs battle wiki

I didn't deny it is a different timeline, but it being different timeline and have different events shouldn't be used as a reason to argue that each event create its own timeline, that is too extrapolate without solid ground

Her think innovative clear as ability to create dimension but we're not talking about this her
But telos karma's possibilities things

Telos Karma is hax which force different outcome, you need a lot more to prove it create different physical possibility or timeline