High 7-A to 6-C

[VersusJunkie54]

There is no minimum value for one shotting anyone in fiction.

But weren't you throwing around a 20% figure earlier? I made an asumption that that was a minimum figure.

Still, I adamantly beleive that 1.5-2x for a one-shot to vital areas is a reasonable estimate to be used that won't cause powerscaling to get out of hand.

Said value should be used for the rest of the body as well for an estimate.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

When a writer writes a character being stomped, they mean to say that the character is a league higher.

 

[RavenSupreme]

Pushing up entire tiers is not only a question of being reasonable in our approach on accurately depicting fictional characters, but it also is a matter of how we, without even actively realizing it, influence the decision and outcome out vsdebate in both our board and across other fictional vsdebate boards.

Very often vsdebates boil down to numbers games. And certain numbers are associtated with a certain tier. We can not expect every single user, visitor or simply interested mind to do a full blown in-depth analysis on the combatants. Therefore we have to provide a tiering as close to the truth as possible.

While it may be true that a mere 100MT difference can make or break a Tier-push, this little nuance is often overlooked in vs-debates. People see the tier and get presented a "6C" which automatically means these people will assume the character has gigaton attack potency - also not in the lower range, but when we see just the tier without a calculation, we most of the time assume something in the middle range. Its just how we as humans work, especially when we do not previously inform ourselfes on the reasoning for certain things.

-

It is not only an inflated method of pushing tiers, without being backed up by an actual calc, but it also is an inflation of potential vsdebates for the future.

I repeat that I am strongly against this.

Edit: Another thing which we have to keep in mind, while we surely are the largest go-to board for fictional character profiles, in vs-debating there are several unspoken rules. One of it being that upscaling characters for crossverse purposes due to inverse events is not applicable.

If we were to start doing that, it also is a potential argument for why people will view our profiles with suspicion.

In the end we do our board not for others, that is correct, but it doesnt mean we should simply discard everything this entire fan-subculture is made of.

Small changes indicating someone being stronger than the tier he is assigned to is fine. A "much higher" or "++" or whatever.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I thought you joined far earlier than September btw.

 

[Antvasima]

@VersusJunkie

The staff have usually been selected partially because of their analytical skills and reliability, whereas regular members come in all varieties in that regard, and when we keep the important policy discussions open for everybody they generally tend to get bloated, out of control, chaotic, off-topic, and extremely hard to manage. The discussions tend to go much more smoothly and with more organised well-considered conclusions if we keep them staff only.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

@RavenSupreme Like, 70% of our ratings don't have calcs.

 

[Kepekley23]

I threw around a 20% figure for the sake of debating the argument. There is no minimum figure. In some series, being 10% stronger is enough.

The fact is, assigning a specific value is an arbitrary decision, and a very bad one, as we will be taking the dangerous path of assuming our standards come above what the actual series says.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

@Antvasima

I don't want to derail. But I think you are generalizing and demaning many of us regular users. Not all of us are gonna ruin the discussion like Mckmal or Jonathan. And if there are any unproductive posts, an admin can literally remove the clutter with a press of a button.

 

[PaChi2]

@RavenSupreme Like, 70% of our ratings don't have calcs.

I take you are referring to 70% calculatable things right? Because I dont see anything wrong with YHVH not having a calc for his 2-A rating.

 

[Kepekley23]

@Spinosaurus

When the writer thinks The Living Tribunal is above Oblivion, they're probably thinking The Living Tribunal is, indeed, above Oblivion.

Now look at our pages for both.

Author intent is not relevant in a debate.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Marvel is inconsistent, we all know that.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I threw around a 20% figure for the sake of debating the argument. There is no minimum figure. In some series, being 10% stronger is enough.
The fact is, assigning a specific value is an arbitrary decision, and a very bad one, as we will be taking the dangerous path of assuming our standards come above what the actual series says.

10% based on....what exactly? And please don't give me a Dragon Ball example.

 

[Schnee_One]

Jesus Christ 172 messages

Guys, I suggest making a new thread.

 

[Antvasima]

@VersusJunkie

The point is that there are a sufficiently high number of regular members who will make lots of irrelevant nonsense-posts to make the discussions demand 10x as much energy from me and other staff members to keep somewhat on track, with likely considerably less well-considered conclusions than usual.

My apologies, but I am speaking from extensive experience, and what you are suggesting does not practically work nearly as well. As such, I am not going to change my mind in this regard.

Also, this is a derail discussion in a thread that is already too chaotic to likely lead anywhere without several hundred posts more argument, which is a case in point.

 

[Kepekley23]

Vegeta vs. Kaioken x2 Goku.

Dragon Ball stays a valid example. Sorry.

 

[Schnee_One]

Jesus Christ 172 messages

Guys, I suggest making a new thread.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

No. It's just 172 messages.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

In fiction, when a character rekts another, it's supposed to mean that the character is an entire league higher. That's not author intent, that's like...common sense.

I'm going to sleep now.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

@Antvasima

So what it boils down to is that you do not beleive many of the more level headed of us cannot contribute anything because we don't have a colored name, that you assume we will all devolve into babbling trolls like Mckmal and Jonathan, and that it takes to much energy to press a button and delete an unproductive post. Therefore, regular users don't matter.

K gotcha.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Vegeta vs. Kaioken x2 Goku.
Dragon Ball stays a valid example. Sorry.

No it is not. Don't expect me to take your argument seriously when you use a series that is known for being inconsistent, and unreliable with its scaling and "Power levels" What I'm getting from this is that we should use Dragon Ball as a standard for the rest of fiction because you say so?

Provide some examples from verses that are far more consistent then we'll talk.

 

[Kepekley23]

@VersusJunkie

Your constant inability to keep your emotions in check, extremely rude behavior, constant string of fallacies and accusations of power abuse at staff members completely unprovoked all testifies to what Ant said.

Most regular users are reasonable and add reasonable input on any given thread. Literally nobody denies that. Yelling and pouting when things don't go your way are hardly painting you as a reasonable person to anyone in this thread.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

"No. It's just 172 messages."

You meant 172 pointlesse messages?No one convinced the other and new people just don't understand what is going on.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

@Kepekley23

Just because I am bringing up major issues does not mean I am angry. Please don't make asumptions. If speaking my mind about real issues makes me a bad person, then so be it.

 

[Antvasima]

@VersusJunkie

You are making very exaggerated interpretations that have very little to do what I actually said. I am easily one of the most helpful staff members towards regular members, and do not remotely disrespect them, but I have watched firsthand over and over how important policy change discussions that are kept open to the public quickly get bloated and completely out of control, with lots of ill-considered off-topic suggestions being systematically thrown around.

I cannot make a purely emotional, rather than rational, analysis of the situation just to spare potential hurt feelings. There are limits to how much time and energy that you can demand the staff members to spend on these discussions, and staff only threads tend to be far more organised, analytical, well-considered and easily managed.

 

[BlackeJan]

@VersusJunkie

Dude just calm down and take a breather

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Ant can you please ban me from the wiki for a week? Or something? I realy have gotten out of control

 

[Antvasima]

@VersusJunkie

Please stop being oversensitive. Consider how ridiculous amounts of abuse that I have had to endure just because I happen to be a bureaucrat in this wiki, and I still very rarely complain about it.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

@VersusJunkie
Please stop being oversensitive. Consider how ridiculous amounts of abuse that I have had to endure just because I happen to be a bureaucrat in this wiki, and I still very rarely complain about it.

No I need it. I obviously need a break from the wiki to keep myself in check. So please ban me so I won't be tempted to come back during that time.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Dude, you're pushing buttons you don't wanna press

 

[BlackeJan]

@Versus

Dude all ya gotta do is just take a breather man. Or just go out somewhere and Beijing yourself for a bit then come back on here

 

[Antvasima]

He hasn't done anything ban-worthy as far as I am concerned. It isn't like we are running this wiki in a remotely totalitarian manner. He is just somewhat tiresome right now. That is all.