High 6-C Fire and Cold Tournament 2022: Grimgor Ironhide vs Kamen Rider Vulkan (Semi-Final 1)

[DemonicDude]

Semi Final 1:

Same Rules as stated in the Tournament.

• Speed Equalized
• Random encounters no prior knowledge to anybody or of the location.
• Location: Hailstorm Iceberg

After Grimgor obliterated Durendal in Group B, Vulkan finds himself in the Semi Final can he go to the Finale of the tournament and take revenge on Grimgor too ? or the undefeated Grimgor crushes his way into the finale.

Results:
Grimgor Ironhide (War Hammer Fantasy)
Kamen Rider Vulkan:
Inconclusive: 8 (DemonicDude, Reaper, Veloxt, Azon, Soma, Sergeant, Fanta, Naitodesu)

 

[CheatHydra]

Boy oh boy this bout to be good...

 

[speedster352]

I vote grim for skills

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Waiting for the Grim Reaper to arrive and officially start this WAAAGH!

 

[Nicetoderp]

So got some sleep and I think I'm ready to debate.

So, to start off. There is no AP gap. The profiles on both side may lead to believed that Grimgor held the big chunk, but RPL in Z1 work so fast that it's not even funny.

Does Grimgor resist everything Aethyr related, just wanted to check as well.

Also, how high can Grimgor jump? Range seem to be the issues with how Vulcan can kinda just fly off and recoup.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bump!!

 

[Nicetoderp]

Well, have Grimgor dealt with speed blitz before?

 

[speedster352]

So got some sleep and I think I'm ready to debate.

So, to start off. There is no AP gap. The profiles on both side may lead to believed that Grimgor held the big chunk, but RPL in Z1 work so fast that it's not even funny.

Does Grimgor resist everything Aethyr related, just wanted to check as well.

Also, how high can Grimgor jump? Range seem to be the issues with how Vulcan can kinda just fly off and recoup.

rpl takes time proabaly 10 seconds not instant

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Well, have Grimgor dealt with speed blitz before?

What are the big differences between the Rider that Grimgor fought in the other tournament match and this one?

 

[Nicetoderp]

rpl takes time proabaly 10 seconds not instant

Not in Zero-One. Again, the some of the worst one amongst them trigger as soon as the user punch being dodge once. Horobi doesn't even HAVE to fight his opponent and just saw their moves to surpassed the stat gap (over x10) or Zero-One who take around 20~30 seconds to start seriously harming someone who is 50x stronger than himself.

What are the big differences between the Rider that Grimgor fought in the other tournament match and this one?

Much more intense RPL, open/easily spammable speed amp, range+flight, intense AP amp through any of the Finisher/ability(Kong/Mammoth alone allow Fuwa to tank a Finisher without flinching, Rampage Power is both of these combined and then some), precog to kept up with skill.

Also Vulcan can kinda just summoned 10 or so other energy avatars to fight alongside him as well.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Also, since this is SBA that mean Vulcan SHOULD have ZAIA Spec which also amp his perception speed to the level of "yes", which allow him to see everything at massively slower pace, as in, "long enough to have an entire training arc inside your head" level of slowdown.

 

[Lynieryz]

What are the big differences between the Rider that Grimgor fought in the other tournament match and this one?

Much more intense RPL, open/easily spammable speed amp, range+flight, intense AP amp through any of the Finisher/ability(Kong/Mammoth alone allow Fuwa to tank a Finisher without flinching, Rampage Power is both of these combined and then some), precog to kept up with skill.

Also Vulcan can kinda just summoned 10 or so other energy avatars to fight alongside him as well.

and durendal having his time skip resisted when he pretty much just does that.

 

[Naito-desu]

speed blitz before?

Gitsnik allows him to fight with blinding speed compared to his movement speed + WAAAGH amps make him faster and stronger on top of his speed with Gitsnik. There is no set value, but the Always Strikes First Special Rule makes his reactions comparable to that of Vampire Lords and High Elf Lords, that can deflect bullets, which is something no regular orc should be capable of.

Does Grimgor resist everything Aethyr related,

Yes, Grimgor resists everything on the Aethyr Manipulation page

 

[IxaSaga2]

Gitsnik allows him to fight with blinding speed compared to his movement speed + WAAAGH amps make him faster and stronger on top of his speed with Gitsnik. There is no set value, but the Always Strikes First Special Rule makes his reactions comparable to that of Vampire Lords and High Elf Lords, that can deflect bullets, which is something no regular orc should be capable of.

Yes, Grimgor resists everything on the Aethyr Manipulation page

Vulcan should be similar since he casually blocked attack that would speed blitz characters comparable to him. This is him without speed amps or RPL so with those, he is far faster.

The thing about Vulcan is that he has 3 different ap amps and 2 different speed amps on top of rpl.
Activating Kong's ability makes him physically far stronger, Shark's abilities makes everything sharper, Mammoth makes his legs do more damage by making them far heavier, Cheetah's ability makes him move fast enough to blitz, and Falcon's ability is similar to Cheetah but with flight.

RPL in Zero-One is, I shit you not, exactly how Nice explains it. His new intelligence section should explain why the Z1 riders are incredibly focused on RPL.

 

[Naito-desu]

Unless there's a set value for these amps, I don't really see how they're a threat to Grimgor. Speed in Warhammer isn't developed but we do have plans to tackle the Always Strikes First rule, as well as separating movement and reaction speed given our inexperience with speed ratings. Grimgor in movement is comparable to Supersonic characters at max, but with Gitsnik can reactions-wise fight Elves and Vampires who reacted to lightning so that is something to note but not seriously consider yet.

Grimgor's armor should not be discounted here given it actually is incredibly powerful as a save in Warhammer and greatly reduces any incoming damage to not wound him. Given his resistance to Aethyr Manip, as well as his Magic Armor, he can reduce much of the damage directed at him, especially if it's off a magical or supernatural source. He has WAAAGH amps to increase this greatly too, and this amp is continuous so as long as Grimgor remains angry. Grimgor's AP shouldn't be underestimated as well, given he does scale above characters who oneshot characters who casually do the aforementioned 510 gigaton feat (idk why it's not indicated)

 

[SomaKing13]

yeah, to add onto Naito's comment, the 510 gigaton feat was done ultra casually by Bloodthirsters just moving their wings let alone actually attacking and putting their full power into it, with Grimgor scaling massively above characters who already scale heavily above Bloodthirsters, on top of this, his Waaagh! amps amplify his physicals up to x3 and is stackable and repeatable as long as the fight keeps going and the more excited he gets, on top of this, his Rage Power lets him grow stronger and faster passively throughout the fight, and his own Reactive Evolution/RPL also continually makes him stronger and larger.

As for precog and the likes, Grimgor casually scales above characters who are easily able to beat characters with precog and analytical prediction (that lets you see the thoughts, souls and basically everything about your opponent on a conceptual level) with nothing but skill, with Grimgor scaling above them by magnitudes. He is also no stranger to fighting outnumbered, like when he fought millions of Skaven in their own home, including countless thousands upon thousands of Rat Ogres who were comparable to him at the time and he was killing them as fast as they came to him, and only left because he got bored.

As for blitzing, he's no stranger to it, usually simply growing faster and faster until he catches the pesky git. Jumping is also a decent strategy for him when flyers and giant monsters are concerned, with him being able to jump higher and farther just by virtue of his physicals increasing.

His type 2 immortality and his regen, coupling with his armour also just naturally make him incredibly hard to harm in the first place.

 

[IxaSaga2]

I'm not the best Zero-One in particular but I'll take a stab at it. Hold up

 

[IxaSaga2]

yeah, to add onto Naito's comment, the 510 gigaton feat was done ultra casually by Bloodthirsters just moving their wings let alone actually attacking and putting their full power into it, with Grimgor scaling massively above characters who already scale heavily above Bloodthirsters, on top of this, his Waaagh! amps amplify his physicals up to x3 and is stackable and repeatable as long as the fight keeps going and the more excited he gets, on top of this, his Rage Power lets him grow stronger and faster passively throughout the fight, and his own Reactive Evolution/RPL also continually makes him stronger and larger.

As for precog and the likes, Grimgor casually scales above characters who are easily able to beat characters with precog and analytical prediction (that lets you see the thoughts, souls and basically everything about your opponent on a conceptual level) with nothing but skill, with Grimgor scaling above them by magnitudes. He is also no stranger to fighting outnumbered, like when he fought millions of Skaven in their own home, including countless thousands upon thousands of Rat Ogres who were comparable to him at the time and he was killing them as fast as they came to him, and only left because he got bored.

As for blitzing, he's no stranger to it, usually simply growing faster and faster until he catches the pesky git. Jumping is also a decent strategy for him when flyers and giant monsters are concerned, with him being able to jump higher and farther just by virtue of his physicals increasing.

His type 2 immortality and his regen, coupling with his armour also just naturally make him incredibly hard to harm in the first place.

Before I make my argument, I have one question. Is witch sight part of Aether? Because if Grimgor resists witch sight, then he is not really fighting against someone who used witch sight against him in the first place.

 

[SomaKing13]

Before I make my argument, I have one question. Is witch sight part of Aether? Because if Grimgor resists witch sight, then he is not really fighting against someone who used witch sight against him in the first place.

no, witchsight basically allows people to see the true world, it allows you to see Aethyr but it doesn't have a direct affect on it or on the people, like true sight from dnd just more advanced

 

[IxaSaga2]

no, witchsight basically allows people to see the true world, it allows you to see Aethyr but it doesn't have a direct affect on it or on the people, like true sight from dnd just more advanced

Gotcha

Unless there's a set value for these amps, I don't really see how they're a threat to Grimgor. Speed in Warhammer isn't developed but we do have plans to tackle the Always Strikes First rule, as well as separating movement and reaction speed given our inexperience with speed ratings. Grimgor in movement is comparable to Supersonic characters at max, but with Gitsnik can reactions-wise fight Elves and Vampires who reacted to lightning so that is something to note but not seriously consider yet.

Grimgor's armor should not be discounted here given it actually is incredibly powerful as a save in Warhammer and greatly reduces any incoming damage to not wound him. Given his resistance to Aethyr Manip, as well as his Magic Armor, he can reduce much of the damage directed at him, especially if it's off a magical or supernatural source. He has WAAAGH amps to increase this greatly too, and this amp is continuous so as long as Grimgor remains angry. Grimgor's AP shouldn't be underestimated as well, given he does scale above characters who oneshot characters who casually do the aforementioned 510 gigaton feat (idk why it's not indicated)

AHEEM. Might get some things wrong so the supporters can correct some things but here goes.

Speed amps in Zero-One has a big scaling chain looking like this: Zero-One in his human form, which is Average Human travel speed, can react to a laser coming from a satellite, which gives him sub-relativistic reaction speed. In his base form, Zero-One can speed amp to blitz sub-rela by tapping on his belt. Vulcan has a big scaling chain above this feat. This is a short version:

So: Zero-One average human ms and sub-rela reactions < Zero-One base speed/reactions <<< Zero-One's Speed Amp/reactions < Valkyrie's speed amp/reactions <<< Shining Hopper's speed amp/reactions < Horobi's reactions < Shining Assault Speed amps/reactions < Thouser's speed amp/reactions = Jackal Raider's speed amp/reactions < Metal Cluster Hopper's reaction speed <<< Rampage Vulcan's speed/reactions < Rampage Vulcan's speed amps

Zero-One's RPL < Vulcan's RPL at this time of the show. Zero-One's base form vs Thouser who was more than 50x stronger than him. (Zero-One's Shining Hopper is 5x times stronger than Rising Hopper, which is Z1's base form. Assault Vulcan is stronger than Shining Hopper. Thouser is 10x stronger than Assault Vulcan). Zero-One's Rising Hopper was able to get over this >50x Ap gap within 20-30 seconds (yes, I went back and watched the scene). Vulcan's RPL applies to AP, dura, speed, and reactions.

yeah, to add onto Naito's comment, the 510 gigaton feat was done ultra casually by Bloodthirsters just moving their wings let alone actually attacking and putting their full power into it, with Grimgor scaling massively above characters who already scale heavily above Bloodthirsters, on top of this, his Waaagh! amps amplify his physicals up to x3 and is stackable and repeatable as long as the fight keeps going and the more excited he gets, on top of this, his Rage Power lets him grow stronger and faster passively throughout the fight, and his own Reactive Evolution/RPL also continually makes him stronger and larger.

As for precog and the likes, Grimgor casually scales above characters who are easily able to beat characters with precog and analytical prediction (that lets you see the thoughts, souls and basically everything about your opponent on a conceptual level) with nothing but skill, with Grimgor scaling above them by magnitudes. He is also no stranger to fighting outnumbered, like when he fought millions of Skaven in their own home, including countless thousands upon thousands of Rat Ogres who were comparable to him at the time and he was killing them as fast as they came to him, and only left because he got bored.

As for blitzing, he's no stranger to it, usually simply growing faster and faster until he catches the pesky git. Jumping is also a decent strategy for him when flyers and giant monsters are concerned, with him being able to jump higher and farther just by virtue of his physicals increasing.

His type 2 immortality and his regen, coupling with his armour also just naturally make him incredibly hard to harm in the first place.

Something to note about skill. Compared to Durendal vs Grimgor, that skill was easy to assess due to opponents faced and years of training. Zero-One's rate of progression in skill is VERY VERY different. Zero-One in episode 1 learned; how to fight better than trained fighters, how to master a sword, how to use the Zero-One system, and the inner workings of Zea, all in about a single second. This is because his mind is linked to a satellite named Zea and his perception is enhanced significantly.

Okay so, Precog in Zero-One goes a little bit something like this: Keep in mind that Humagears are super A.I. androids, think of Connor from Detroit. They master their professions when they first boot up and they are mass produced in this series. They can also learn things with one look. Zaia's Specs make average humans think with a thought process that is comparable to a humagear and since this is SBA, Vulcan has this on.

Dodo Magia, a humagear that surpasses normal ones, can learn a move such as Zero-One's teleportation after Zero-One made one move. So that's the baseline I'm setting up. Humagears < Zero-One's Precog < Dodo Magia's Precog < Horobi's Precog < Zero-One Shining Hopper's Shining Arithmetic (Here's where we get concrete values. Zero-One can create 25,000 attack and avoidance patterns in 0.01 seconds and can get better during battle) < Thouser's Thousand Arithmetic (Tens of Thousands of attack and avoidance patterns in 0.001 seconds) < Horobi's Precog < Metal Cluster Hopper's Precog < Rampage Vulcan's Precog < Vulcan's precog with Zaia spec.

Also, another thing I have to mention. Remember that satellite I talk about earlier?

Zea and it's twin, Ark, are satellites that can predict hundreds of millions of simulations perfectly within 0.01 seconds

By Simulations, it means actual hundreds of millions of separate timelines. How we know this? Zea correctly predicted the events of a time rip that altered the entire history of Zero-One. On top of this, Zea also correctly predicted entire life of many people. One of them being Zero-One. Zea told Zero-One's grandpa set up everything to make sure his grandson, a failing comedian of all things, was the one to be the president of a corporation and become Zero-One in order to beat the Ark. Another indication is that Izu (a humagear) went through millions - billions of timelines trying to find a way to stop Ark. She did it fast enough before Ark made his move.

This is not the key where these things happened yet it it is close to it and Zea and Ark were prevalent enough in the story so that there the things said here applies to some of the characters. Zero-One is connected to Zea so Zea feeds him info. Same with Horobi and Jin with Ark.

Vulcan is caught up in all of this and he's just a dude and he was wiping some of these guy's asses. Later, he lands a single hit on the fuckery that is Zero-Two but that is another story.

Vulcan's bullets are also anti-armor because it's made to destroy humagear. Vulcan's Explosion Manipulation as a finisher by making the opponent explode from inside out will make sure the regen doesn't apply. All this while fighting 10 others who scale and communicates with him, and 3 of which are about Grimgor's height.

 

[SomaKing13]

Okay so, Precog in Zero-One goes a little bit something like this: Keep in mind that Humagears are super A.I. androids, think of Connor from Detroit. They master their professions when they first boot up and they are mass produced in this series. They can also learn things with one look. Zaia's Specs make average humans think with a thought process that is comparable to a humagear and since this is SBA, Vulcan has this on.

Dodo Magia, a humagear that surpasses normal ones, can learn a move such as Zero-One's teleportation after Zero-One made one move. So that's the baseline I'm setting up. Humagears < Zero-One's Precog < Dodo Magia's Precog < Horobi's Precog < Zero-One Shining Hopper's Shining Arithmetic (Here's where we get concrete values. Zero-One can create 25,000 attack and avoidance patterns in 0.01 seconds and can get better during battle) < Thouser's Thousand Arithmetic (Tens of Thousands of attack and avoidance patterns in 0.001 seconds) < Horobi's Precog < Metal Cluster Hopper's Precog < Rampage Vulcan's Precog < Vulcan's precog with Zaia spec.

Also, another thing I have to mention. Remember that satellite I talk about earlier?

Zea and it's twin, Ark, are satellites that can predict hundreds of millions of simulations perfectly within 0.01 seconds

By Simulations, it means actual hundreds of millions of separate timelines. How we know this? Zea correctly predicted the events of a time rip that altered the entire history of Zero-One. On top of this, Zea also correctly predicted entire life of many people. One of them being Zero-One. Zea told Zero-One's grandpa set up everything to make sure his grandson, a failing comedian of all things, was the one to be the president of a corporation and become Zero-One in order to beat the Ark. Another indication is that Izu (a humagear) went through millions - billions of timelines trying to find a way to stop Ark. She did it fast enough before Ark made his move.

This is not the key where these things happened yet it it is close to it and Zea and Ark were prevalent enough in the story so that there the things said here applies to some of the characters. Zero-One is connected to Zea so Zea feeds him info. Same with Horobi and Jin with Ark.

Vulcan's bullets are also anti-armor because it's made to destroy humagear. Vulcan's Explosion Manipulation as a finisher by making the opponent explode from inside out will make sure the regen doesn't apply. All this while fighting 10 others who scale and communicates with him, and 3 of which are about Grimgor's height.

Don't have enough time to go over all of it atm unfortunately, but I can tackle these bits atleast before I go,

that precog wouldn't really help him here then as it still scales below Grimgor's chain, with his it goes:
absolute baseline is Witchsight (Analytical prediction and info analysis via seeing everything the person is thinking of before they do it, as well as their emotions, weaknesses and their soul and such)<<<some witches are capable of seeing countless infinite possibilities and the structure of the Weave itself ( essentially all of time and space to keep it short, where every universe has a Weave or comparable structure which contains infinite possibilities and timelines for just that universe alone)<<<Verminlord's are able to look into infinite possible futures across the entirety of all of existence (to which there are infinite possibilities and timelines within a singular universe, infinite universes in a singular subrealm and a Realm being made up of infinite subrealms and there being 8 Mortal Realms, not including the countless other Realms beyond even them)<< Lords of Change being able to perceive infinite timelines perfectly and near instantly<<<<Tzeentch who has knowledge encompassing everything previously mentioned as well as all things that have been, will be and even things that don't actually exist through it's Nigh-Omniscience<< Kairos Fateweaver, who actually has perfect knowledge of everything that is the future and past across ALL of existence by being thrown into the Well of Eternity (this would even include other connected multiverses such as 40k, where we have further feats of characters casually looking into countless hundreds of billions of timelines in less than a microsecond)<<<and above all of this, we have the Eye of Sheerian, which holds all of the potential knowledge of Tzeentch on all things and automatically and instantly informs the user of the EXACT thing that will happen perfectly in the exact specific way to benefit the user, even scanning years if not centuries into the future to make it perfectly align exactly how it needs to happen.

Archaon wields the Eye of Sheerian and is bar none one of the most skilled fighters amongst all of Warhammer Fantasy and was capable of completely out planning Tzeentch AND Kairos AND Be'lakor while they actively kept tabs on his life and even consistently and frequently rewrote his fate to suit Be'lakor's needs, and it didn't help him get the shit kicked out of him by Grimgor and be taken aback by how skilled the orc was.


As for the bullets, the problem is anti-armour won't stop his armour, it's magically enhanced, giving him a huge armour save (which WOULD be countered by armour piercing attacks) but also provides him with solid Wardsave, which has a decent chance of just straight up negating the attack. If the explosion manipulation is hax in anyway, it gets resisted by Grimgor. And again, the 10 avatars thing isn't that much of a game changer when he's literally fought countless thousands of comparable foes (as well as millions of lesser foes) at the same time for weeks and walked away without a scratch.

 

[Nicetoderp]

As I stated before, APs difference doesn't really matter in this fight since both of them will constantly rise to match one another so they're dead even on that department.

Explosion manip isn't exactly hax more like a build up of energy from damaging opponent enough that they just explode when it hits critical mass.

For my post, I give Vulcan the edge due to the sheer stat amps that he just have. Blitzing people far faster than Grimgor speed tier who have massive perception manip stack on top of it and three other AP enhancer to overpowered Grimgor.

 

[Naito-desu]

Explosion manip isn't exactly hax more like a build up of energy from damaging opponent enough that they just explode when it hits critical mass.

I'm less ambiguous on this because it will be resisted. Many things build up energy in Warhammer without the direct need for pooling magic, and Aethyr Manipulation Resistance covers that. Gitsnik gives Grimgor a huge speed amp too, given we haven't applied changes yet, but the Always Strikes First special rule signifies reaction speeds way beyond that of regular soldiers (think someone who can dodge bullets vs someone who can dodge

Perception Manipulation wouldn't be a problem given Grimgor should have experience fighting lords amped by wizards who can literally free them from the passage of time and make them faster, literally opponents time amped to be faster, as well as spells that also increase their clarity of thought. Grimgor has dealt with amps before, especially from an outside source.

 

[IxaSaga2]

and above all of this, we have the Eye of Sheerian, which holds all of the potential knowledge of Tzeentch on all things and automatically and instantly informs the user of the EXACT thing that will happen perfectly in the exact specific way to benefit the user, even scanning years if not centuries into the future to make it perfectly align exactly how it needs to happen.

If I may, I would like to see how this exactly works in game and how it is used in battle. I am a bit confused because this explanation felt weaker in comparison to the previous ones.

Zea is also an A.I. that predicted timelines that never should've existed in the first place. Basically predicted non-canon timelines. When Finis, an unknown time jacker, stole away Zero-One's timeline, it made it into a future where Zea was never launched. Zea still predicted it even if the timeline was never meant to happen in the first place. I don't wanna get too much into it because it was both canon and non-canon.

I'm less ambiguous on this because it will be resisted. Many things build up energy in Warhammer without the direct need for pooling magic, and Aethyr Manipulation Resistance covers that. Gitsnik gives Grimgor a huge speed amp too, given we haven't applied changes yet, but the Always Strikes First special rule signifies reaction speeds way beyond that of regular soldiers (think someone who can dodge bullets vs someone who can dodge

Perception Manipulation wouldn't be a problem given Grimgor should have experience fighting lords amped by wizards who can literally free them from the passage of time and make them faster, literally opponents time amped to be faster, as well as spells that also increase their clarity of thought. Grimgor has dealt with amps before, especially from an outside source.

From what I understand, Grimgor can amp from Supersonic to MHS+. Vulcan's speed amps can take him from Subsonic to blitz Relativistic+ characters which should be far faster. Perception Manipulation not only makes his perception far faster, Vulcan's mind is able to make him learn things in that time where it is slowed. As I said earlier on, Zero-One learned how to fight, mastered sword techniques, learn the Zero-One system all in a second, things that take decades of practice and learning to master in a single second. Vulcan in this case would be making new things up every second.

 

[Nicetoderp]

I'm less ambiguous on this because it will be resisted. Many things build up energy in Warhammer without the direct need for pooling magic, and Aethyr Manipulation Resistance covers that. Gitsnik gives Grimgor a huge speed amp too, given we haven't applied changes yet, but the Always Strikes First special rule signifies reaction speeds way beyond that of regular soldiers (think someone who can dodge bullets vs someone who can dodge

If we took the raw value blitzing MHS+ VS blitzing Sub-Rel+ is a very wide gap, along with the fact that does that have Sub-Rel+ reaction speed naturally have a perception manip ala See Through World on complete steroid.

 

[speedster352]

So what are the win cons? What are the arguments for both?

 

[DemonicDude]

There are no wincons, I highly doubt in a complex match such as this one we are going to be getting any sort of wincons this is semi final after all...

 

[Naito-desu]

Zero-One learned how to fight, mastered sword techniques, learn the Zero-One system all in a second, things that take decades of practice and learning to master in a single second. Vulcan in this case would be making new things up every second.

Archaon's Eye of Sheerian does this but at low 1-C level where he looks through infinite possibilities across a low 1-C (soon to be 1-A structure of possibilities) and knows exactly what you will do, you are not going to get to that level of mastery of being able to know your exact weaknesses of your opponents and what they will do out of infinite possibilities. Come back to me when Zero-One actually is capable of this. So even if Vulcan could come up with new things every second, it's still peanuts compared to being able through read infinite possibilities from someone that Witchsight grants you, and Eye of Sheerian that looks through those possibilities and tells you exactly what they will do.

Grimgor still outpaced Archaon despite this, and it's safe to say he can outpace someone who can make new techniques up every second.

And Grimgor fought opponents who literally were amped so hard to be removed from time, which I won't currently wank it but Warhammer spells grant crazy speed and reactions to his opponents, and Grimgor rose to the occasion and beat them. I don't think Perception Amps and Speed Amps will do much. If you want to take it to the next level, we can consider there are perception amps that increases a Wizard's reactions tenfold, and that N'kari, a comparable character, had lightspeed reactions with some of his own spells.

This part is obviously undergoing revisions since Warhammer reactions should be separate from movement speed and that needs to be changed, but I may as well bring it up if we're bringing up reaction speed and perception amps into the mix just to rebutt the argument that Vulcan blitzes.

I'm firm in believing that Vulcan is not going to win a fight up close, but Grimgor's extremely strong armor + Mork's All-Seeing Eye means that Grimgor can't really be killed at range. Grimgor's fought for weeks on end without tiring or giving up, so at best, I say it's incon.

Grimgor is an antithesis to logic in Warhammer, he's risen to the occasion against fighters and opponents that logically should outskill, outsmart, or outspeed him, and what Kamen-Rider offered is no different if not inferior to whatever Grimgor has faced but he's still ultimately a melee fighter, so not much he can do about being outranged, but his anger amps, armor, robust resistances and regen means he can't really be killed at range either.

I'm voting Incon.

 

[azontr]

Grimgor FRA.

Incon FRA in all seriousness.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Incon FRA

 

[Sergeant_Hypocrite]

Incon FRA

 

[DaReaperMan]

Incon FRA, that is precisely why I didn't exactly want to debate this match lol

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@DemonicDude Time for the coin-flip, Donatello

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Read the match, got a head ache, and formed an option that makes Fanta want to vote Incon FRA!

 

[SomaKing13]

Incon fra

 

[speedster352]

Incon fra

 

[speedster352]

There are no wincons, I highly doubt in a complex match such as this one we are going to be getting any sort of wincons this is semi final after all...

So who progreses?

 

[DemonicDude]

Whoever will win the coin flip, Right now I'm busy watching an hentai once I'll finish then I'll post the Coin flip result.

 

[DemonicDude]

Alright let's do it, The person going to Semi Final is:

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Whoever will win the coin flip, Right now I'm busy watching an hentai once I'll finish then I'll post the Coin flip result.

W O T ?