High 3-A downgrade Anos

[BadSystems]

Irrelevant, this is the exact reason why we did not allow the sword to get the same rating as Anos since there is absolutely no mention to this (even the translator mentioned that there were no narrative perspective when it comes to this)

What do you mean by “allow the sword to get the same rating as Anos”. Did you mean the other way around?

 

[ImmortalDread]

There is a difference between Hyperbole and NLF.

Hyperboles do exist inherently in stories, because they are actual literary technique used in literature to exaggerate something. However, none of what is in these scans are hyperboles at all. They are direct, narrative statements meant to be taken literally.

NLF is a fallacy that people use to argue against people who wank statements or feats to their highest interpretation. NLF statements do not exist inherently in a story. It isn't a literary technique or anything, it's a argumentative fallacy.

Saying that the statements in these scans are inherently invoking no-limits-fallacy is insane.

One again, Dread.

If the sword has effortlessly destroyed everything it's tried to destroy without any problems, then there is no anti feats against it being High 3-A.

What I'm saying is, even if there's no High 3-A feats, there's also no feats that actually debunk the High 3-A statements because it hasn't ever struggled to destroy anything it's been faced with.

No they are not narrative perspectives, again, it is from Anos perspective who is demonstrated not to be omniscient in the verse.

 

[Shmooply]

But he does.

Naw you tweaking rn this ain't shit

 

[ImmortalDread]

What do you mean by “allow the sword to get the same rating as Anos”. Did you mean the other way around?

It was a WN concern, but long ago we did not allow his perspective to absolute literal, because it has demonstrated that he is not omniscient in the verse.

 

[Phoenks]

No they are not narrative perspectives, again, it is from Anos perspective who is demonstrated not to be omniscient in the verse.

And he isn't saying this to wank his own sword, he is saying it to seriously present it's power in the narrative.

Anyway Dread, mark me and everyone else down for disagree.

 

[BadSystems]

It was a WN concern, but long ago we did not allow his perspective to absolute literal, because it has demonstrated that he is not omniscient in the verse.

This isn’t a question of omniscience, it’s a question of how well he knows his signature weapon.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yea i also disagree here. Dread using your logic you could argue almost any stament is a NLF just because we dont see it.

Ngl this is pretty much saying that Enrico Pucci doesn't have Infinite Speed at peak because him accelerating to literally infinite levels of speed is NLF despite being said very clearly so from the stats explanation.

 

[ImmortalDread]

And he isn't saying this to wank his own sword, he is saying it to seriously present it's power in the narrative.

Anyway Dread, mark me and everyone else down for disagree.

Someone who is demonstrating or flexing his power does not mean he is presenting a narrative absolute perspective that he is never being wrong

 

[BadSystems]

Ngl this is pretty much saying that Enrico Pucci doesn't have Infinite Speed at peak because him accelerating to literally infinite levels of speed is NLF despite being said very clearly so from the stats explanation.

He doesn’t tho

 

[ImmortalDread]

This isn’t a question of omniscience, it’s a question of how well he knows his signature weapon.

Someone knowing his sword does not grant an absolute say that can't be wrong as "narrative perspective".

 

[BadSystems]

Someone knowing his sword does not grant an absolute say that can't be wrong as "narrative perspective".

Of course, but it grants him knowledge of his sword’s abilities.

 

[Planck69]

I find Maou Gakuin cringe but even I can tell this is a reach of a downgrade thread.

If it outright mentions that even infinite structures or bodies can be destroyed then the rating can stay. At worst, it'd be a "Likely High 3-A" rating.

 

[StrymULTRA]

He doesn’t tho

Dude no, you'll make a downgrade against Pucci too, don't do that.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

This is a single statement, so what is exactly “further evidence”? The scan is the main evidence.

Was it 1 statement? Only saw the 2nd part of the justification, didn't know it was the same for the first sentence. Don't matter either way since it was stated to destroy anything no matter how infinite it is. And logic being repeated multiple times.

Exactly, it has, but there were absolutely none in the verse, and to rate it because "Anos did everything except anything related to the sizes, for example defying logics or combining two sources into one despite its clear impossibility" has nothing to do with AP at all.

It can destroy anything eternal or infinite, so it clearly does.

Spaces and dimensions were referring to distance, so no, I was not in agreement it is 4D. The statement itself were referring to speed and has been established in volume 4.

It isn't just distance if it clarifys both spaces and dimensions. And don't see how it references speed.

Also still think it's Tier 2 since I'm pretty sure time was stopped in the dimension, which Venuzdonoa should be able to destroy, which is a 4d construct.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Of course, but it grants him knowledge of his sword’s abilities.

If I know my sword capabilities, it does not mean I can simply say any characteristics and it should be true as it is.

 

[Phoenks]

Someone who is demonstrating or flexing his power does not mean he is presenting a narrative absolute perspective that he is never being wrong

You have yet to prove why his statement shouldn't be taken seriously.

As of now, it is blatantly obvious that he is saying this literally, not figuratively.

So please, you aren't going to provide evidence as to why Anos' statement is a hyperbole, update your thread to list all disagreements.

 

[BadSystems]

If I know my sword capabilities, it does not mean I can simply say any characteristics and it should be true as it is.

No, but you can say characteristics that are. What reason does Anos have to lie about the sword that I’m pretty sure he’s wielded for eons, and has carried him at every turn? Much less in his own head.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Was it 1 statement? Only saw the 2nd part of the justification, didn't know it was the same for the first sentence. Don't matter either way since it was stated to destroy anything no matter how infinite it is. And logic being repeated multiple times.

It is one single statement, hence my main point of this thread.

It can destroy anything eternal or infinite, so it clearly does.

It never demonstrated in the series, at least not to volume 4.

It isn't just distance if it clarifys both spaces and dimensions. And don't see how it references speed.

Because it has been demonstrated after that? In the later volumes (which are not translated officially?)
Every MG fan agree it refers to speed and distance, rather mathematical dimensions.

Also still think it's Tier 2 since I'm pretty sure time was stopped in the dimension, which Venuzdonoa should be able to destroy, which is a 4d construct.

I don't know what you are talking about.

 

[ImmortalDread]

You have yet to prove why his statement shouldn't be taken seriously.

Because Anos is known for over-exaggerated talks in the verse?

As of now, it is blatantly obvious that he is saying this literally, not figuratively.

Prove it

So please, you aren't going to provide evidence as to why Anos' statement is a hyperbole, update your thread to list all disagreements.

I will only add staff member's votes.

 

[ImmortalDread]

No, but you can say characteristics that are.

Does not make it true? There were times where he could not do it.

What reason does Anos have to lie about the sword that I’m pretty sure he’s wielded for eons, and has carried him at every turn? Much less in his own head.

No one claimed it is a lie, I am claiming that it should not be taken into face-value specially the "feats" he presented has nothing to with AP at all.

 

[Akagami_Shanks1]

i agree with dread

 

[BadSystems]

Does not make it true? There were times where he could not do it.

No one claimed it is a lie, I am claiming that it should not be taken into face-value specially the "feats" he presented has nothing to with AP at all.

Ah, so if it isn’t a lie, that means he’s being honest about it being able to destroy anything (within the verse), even infinite things?

 

[ImmortalDread]

If it outright mentions that even infinite structures or bodies can be destroyed then the rating can stay. At worst, it'd be a "Likely High 3-A" rating.

It never has mentioned this hence my point.

 

[Planck69]

I will only add staff member's votes.

It's in rather poor taste to disregard their votes completely, especially if they're bringing arguments to the table. Even if they're not what determines the thread's acceptance or rejection, it's good to index their opinions.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ah, so if it isn’t a lie, that means he’s being honest about it being able to destroy anything (within the verse), even infinite things?

He is not omnipotent, BadSystem, he even said that to himself while talking with Misha.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Dread, do you know why we do not grant Tier 0 for Infinite Power statements, assuming those are literal?

Because the normal assumption is that, like everything else, the statement involves the lowest level of that thing for a safe end and avoid getting in NLF, in this case Aleph-0.

Like when for statements of being able to blow up a planet we assume that it's only baseline 5-B, as it would be NLF to assume it can blow up Saturn or the likes.

Your argument of "you can make him Tier 0 for this logic" does not make sense because higher dimensions were not even involved here, we just assume he can destroy Aleph-0 levels of stuff because that's the best you can argue for him based on showings, that's the entire thing.

 

[Planck69]

It never has mentioned this hence my point.

"No matter how infinite-" ...?

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

It is one single statement, hence my main point of this thread.

Still pretty clearly defined. Unless there is a reason for Anos to exaggerate what the sword he made does, it's perfectly valid.

It never demonstrated in the series, at least not to volume 4.

Don't care. It's still clearly defined.

Because it has been demonstrated after that? In the later volumes (which are not translated officially?)
Every MG fan agree it refers to speed and distance, rather mathematical dimensions.

Eh, still references both spaces and dimension, not just something that would indicate distance. In fact, it even talks about constructs made from magic as a whole.

I don't know what you are talking about.

Will drop this point for now since it's doesn't relate much to the downgrade atm. Though I thought what I said wa spretty clear, oh well.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

You mean the feats that have absolutely nothing to do with AP or structures or sizes? Anos is not omniscient, so I don't get your argument.

I mean the feats like destroying order which can cause the world to be destroyed should be feat and I know Anos did said he is not omniscient but it was in creation and he also said it clearly in destruction he is best so his statement regarding venzudonor destruction can easily be seen it is not just NLF.

In fact, the only thing in this world I can truly say I’m the best at is destruction.”

 

[ImmortalDread]

"No matter how infinite-" ...?

This is no limits' statement. It has never ever being demonstrated in the whole 4 novels (except in later volumes, which I don't mind if we bring high 3-A or low 2-C back)

 

[BadSystems]

He is not omnipotent, BadSystem, he even said that to himself while talking with Misha.

I fail to see how this is relevant. You don’t need to be almighty within the scope of your verse to destroy infinite stuff.

 

[YoPercy]

Disagree with the OP.

 

[AKUTO123]

Dont agree ı dont think that is nlf

 

[BadSystems]

Also, how does one apply NLF… in-verse? Anos didn’t say that Venuzboner can absolutely nuke anything but itself and if you’re not called Venuzboner it’s wraps, he thought plain and simple “it can destroy infinite things”

 

[Planck69]

This is no limits' statement. It has never ever being demonstrated in the whole 4 novels (except in later volumes, which I don't mind if we bring high 3-A or low 2-C back)

Yeah, cause it's a statement. Which isn't ever contradicted by feats, like if Venuzdonoa showed an upper limit to its destructive power.

I feel like this thread forgets that direct statements can be used for tiering.

 

[The_Emperor4th]

Call me crazy but at this moment, I swear that I don't understand how MG thread operates, with the tons of downgrade thread that happened, back and forth topics, accusations that even some shit got reported in RVR.

Like @Phoenks said, some of you need to take a break from the forum, go touch some grass, take a pill or whatever. Avoid getting involved in things like this for now and come back with a clear mind.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Yeah, cause it's a statement. Which isn't ever contradicted by feats, like if Venuzdonoa showed an upper limit to its destructive power.

Which feats are you referring to, Planck? The ones that have absolutely nothing to do with AP?

 

[Godsatoshi23]

go touch some grass.

Hmm, seems I know from where you are saying it.

 

[BadSystems]

Waiting for a response from ImmortalDread to me

 

[ImmortalDread]

Please, drop with the argument of (he never showed any contradicted feats) while all feats he presented has absolutely nothing to do with AP