High 3-A downgrade Anos

[ImmortalDread]

Introduction​

---

My premise is to remove high 3-A as it is absolutely not supported by any feats and it is definition of NLF statement.

Anos Voldigoad

Did you really think killing me would be enough to make me die?Anos to Ivis What is a demon king? Is it power? A title? Authority? A position? It’s none of them. I am simply me. To completely annihilate those subordinates who rise up and rebel against this me no matter what their destiny or...

vsbattles.fandom.com

High 3-A:

Venuzdonoa is the destroyer of anything in all of existence. Be it providence, fate, or a miracle, all bows down before it and disappears. No matter how sturdy, how eternal, or how infinite something is, Venuzdonoa can destroy it - even Reason itself[114]. Dimensions and spaces mean nothing to it and reduces all logic to nothing

The statement is “no limits' fallacy." This fallacy occurs when someone claims (in our case, Anos was claiming this) that the sword has no limits or boundaries, and can do absolutely anything without exception or limitation.

There are many things that I need to address:

• All his feats that are demonstrated as far till volume 4 are hax feats and not AP feats
  • So simply saying (there are no anti-feats) does not counter the fact that it has no relevance to begin with)
• If you interpret the statement literally, it cannot be restricted because doing so would contradict its inherent nature. For instance, if something is considered to be at "tier 0," it must be capable of destroying itself, or else the statement becomes meaningless.

Replace it with “Unknown” rating till further official LN volumes are dropped.

Staff Vote Tally

Agree:

Disagree: 2 (2:0) @Planck69, @Dereck03

Neutral:

 

[Hasty12345]

I agree with the tier 0 upgrade

 

[Phoenks]

Is there anything wrong with "possibly High 3-A" given these statements don't seem like hyperboles?

If you take it being able to destroying anything, regardless of how infinite it is, and regardless of space or dimensionality as being literal (Which I do think they are), then I do think these are good supporting evidences for High 3-A.

However it's lack of High 3-A feats does make it hard to give it a concrete rating.

So i would agree with a downgrade to "possibly High 3-A"

 

[ImmortalDread]

They seem hyperbole since the statement is NLF and can extend to any tier. All his feats that are presented far never near high 3-A in LN.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

I disagree. It clearly says it can destroy anything, no matter how infinite it is, which is High 3-A. Statements can be as valid as feats.

What's more, considering the statement says it can destroy dimensions and time, Venuzdonoa could be upgraded straight to Low 2-C, since we know dimensions can and do have time in their world.

 

[Dereck03]

WTF Man with your spite thread, ******* close this as venuz has all the clear proof of capable to destroy anything it has faced.

 

[Phoenks]

They seem hyperbole since the statement is NLF and can extend to any tier. All his feats that are presented far never near high 3-A in LN.

They aren't hyperboles they are direct statements about the sword.

They only become NLF if you take the statements to the maximum degree of what it entails.

Also if it has annihilated everything it has shown to be against to far in one shot then those aren't anti feats.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Introduction​

---

My premise is to remove high 3-A as it is absolutely not supported by any feats and it is definition of NLF statement.

Anos Voldigoad

Did you really think killing me would be enough to make me die?Anos to Ivis What is a demon king? Is it power? A title? Authority? A position? It’s none of them. I am simply me. To completely annihilate those subordinates who rise up and rebel against this me no matter what their destiny or...

vsbattles.fandom.com

High 3-A:



There is absolutely no feat that supports this, and we no longer take NLF statements into account. Because you can simply argue for tier 0 for this statement.

So, you are suggesting we don't use this statement until further statements and feats of this will be revealed in later volumes of official LN Eng translation like v8,9,10..etc, right?

 

[ImmortalDread]

I disagree. It clearly says it can destroy anything, no matter how infinite it is, which is High 3-A. Statements can be as valid as feats.

The statement is clearly NLF and can be extended to any structure that is bounded by “infinite”, which can fairly be to 1-A.
Statements can be valid as long as they have feats which are near to the level, as far as it is introduced, nothing was even near high 3-A

What's more, considering the statement says it can destroy dimensions and time, Venuzdonoa could be upgraded straight to Low 2-C, since we know dimensions can and do have time in their world.

Dimensions as in distance in that context, has nothing to do with spatial dimension one.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Somehow I get the impression that this was done out of spite, since this is also coincidentally the first time you've directly messaged me about a MGK thread.

In any case, I think Phoenks' evaluation makes a lot of sense.

 

[ImmortalDread]

So, you are suggesting we don't use this statement until further statements and feats of this will be revealed in later volumes of official LN Eng translation like v8,9,10..etc, right?

Exactly.

WTF Man with your spite thread, ******* close this as venuz has all the clear proof of capable to destroy anything it has faced.

Address the context of OP and no need to assume my intention.

Where is evidence that he destroyed any infinite of something in LN to take it to face value?

They aren't hyperboles they are direct statements about the sword.

Still NLF statement which is my point here.

They only become NLF if you take the statements to the maximum degree of what it entails.

Which the statements itself refers to.

Also if it has annihilated everything it has shown to be against to far in one shot then those aren't anti feats.

Where is feats that he annihilated any high 3-A feats?

Somehow I get the impression that this was done out of spite, since this is also coincidentally the first time you've directly messaged me about a MGK thread.

Either address the thread or simply don't comment. I directly messaged as you are interested in the verse.

 

[Phoenks]

Dread please don't go and get yourself banned like this we all know why you made this thread.

And the arguments you are making right now are clearly not what you actually believe. Nobody is buying this.

Please take a break from the wiki and come back with a clear mind.

You're better than this.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Dread please don't go and get yourself banned like this we all know why you made this thread.

My intention is completely irrelevant as long as my context of said OP is valid

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

The statement is clearly NLF and can be extended to any structure that is bounded by “infinite”, which can fairly be to 1-A.

Well, it isn't Tier 1. So I don't care. Infinite statements do qualify for High 3-A and the scans in the OP have more than enough evidence.

Statements can be valid as long as they have feats which are near to the level, as far as it is introduced, nothing was even near high 3-A

Nah, statements can exist without feats. And I'm pretty sure there aren't even any contradictions for Venuzdonoa.

Dimensions as in distance in that context, has nothing to do with spatial dimension one.

Nah, it says spaces and dimensions in the scan.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Also, I was in disagreement of the tier since 25/03/2023, so this topic is not even new.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Well, it isn't Tier 1. So I don't care. Infinite statements do qualify for High 3-A and the scans in the OP have more than enough evidence.

Where is “enough evidence”?

Nah, statements can exist without feats. And I'm pretty sure there aren't even any contradictions for Venuzdonoa.

There were no infinite of something to exist a contradiction to begin with.

Nah, it says spaces and dimensions in the scan.

I am aware what it says, and I am aware it refers to distance. This alone granted him immeasurable speed back in WN, and the feat already happened in Anime and we saw it was referring to distance.

 

[Phoenks]

Still NLF statement which is my point here

There's no such thing as an "NLF statement" within a verse, Dread.

NLF is a fallacy about arguments people make regarding statements in a verse.

A verse statement isn't inherently NLF lol.

Which the statements itself refers to.

Why are you assuming it does? You're not the author.

Where is feats that he annihilated any high 3-A feats?

Even if there is no feats, what I'm saying is, if the claimed High 3-A sword has destroyed everything it has gone against so far effortlessly, then there is no anti feats against a High 3-A rating.

 

[BadSystems]

Disagree. It’s not a NLF. The “no matter how infinite” was direct narrative word. It’s not Anos wanking his sword or whatever, it’s a clean and simple statement that Venuzwhatever can destroy things that are infinite. Within the context (or lack of) in the verse, that entails High 3-A.

 

[ImmortalDread]

There's no such thing as an "NLF statement" within a verse, Dread.

There are, hence many verses that had those statements got rejected for this reason, the best examples OPM or Rimuru.

NLF is a fallacy about arguments people make regarding statements in a verse.

The statement itself is no limits' fallacy.

A verse statement isn't inherently NLF lol.

Actually it does if nothing support it such.

Even if there is no feats, what I'm saying is, if the claimed High 3-A sword has destroyed everything it has gone against so far effortlessly, then there is no anti feats against a High 3-A rating.

But there are absolutely no feats he has gone with "infinite size of structure". What is your point?

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Exactly.

But, even from current LN I think it shown enough feats of it not being just NLF.

Like capable of destroying the order of heavenly god father easily which can cause the whole world be destroyed in an instant and there were no Anti feats till now.

It just further proves that venzudonor is capable of doing anything as it statement holds.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Disagree. It’s not a NLF. The “no matter how infinite” was direct narrative word. It’s not Anos wanking his sword or whatever, it’s a clean and simple statement that Venuzwhatever can destroy things that are infinite. Within the context (or lack of) in the verse, that entails High 3-A.

Actually, this was not narrative words.

Read the scan again. It was Anos.

 

[BadSystems]

First Anos spoke, then parentheses closed. Did you check the scan?

 

[ImmortalDread]

But, even from current LN I think it shown enough feats of it not being just NLF.

We are specifically talking about AP's feats.

Like capable of destroying the order of heavenly god father easily which can cause the whole world be destroyed in an instant and there were no Anti feats till now.

This has absolutely nothing to do with high 3-A

It just further proves that venzudonor is capable of doing anything as it statement holds.

One can argue it can destroy tier 0 structures if the feats that have absolutely nothing to do with cosmologies/structures/sizes as long as it is "capable to do anything"

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

WTF Man with your spite thread, ******* close this as venuz has all the clear proof of capable to destroy anything it has faced.

Deleting the profile would be better option honestly.

First Anos spoke, then parentheses closed. Did you check the scan?

I am not interested in the thread anyway that was Anos Perceptive.

 

[ImmortalDread]

First Anos spoke, then parentheses closed. Did you check the scan?

It was referring to "destroyer of anything in existence". I am aware of the scan and it was Anos's perspective

The whole time it was actually Anos's perspective.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Meh, disagree FRA.

The explanation sounds pretty damn clear.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Where is “enough evidence”?

You quoting the justification and scans linked to them?

There were no infinite of something to exist a contradiction to begin with.

Nah, fiction can have infinite things and other things bigger than it. (Though, I'm not even 100% sure what you mean by this to begin with. Weirdly worded)

I am aware what it says, and I am aware it refers to distance. This alone granted him immeasurable speed back in WN, and the feat already happened in Anime and we saw it was referring to distance.

So, you're aware Venuzdonoa can destroy spaces and dimensions, which are/can be 4d? Alright, tier 2 Venuzdonoa agreed upon.

 

[BadSystems]

Open scan
I pointed the blade at Ivis’s throat. “I’ll answer you as a gift to take to the afterlife. This is Venuzdonoa, the Abolisher of Reason-the demon sword of the founder, destroyer of anything in existence. Be it providence, fate, or a miracle, all will bow down before me a disappear.”
No matter how sturdy, how eternal, how infinite a thing was, Venuzdonoa could destroy it….
Close scan

 

[BadSystems]

It was referring to "destroyer of anything in existence". I am aware of the scan and it was Anos's perspective

The whole time it was actually Anos's perspective.

I forgot to reply to you, but the “how infinite” statement is what gave the rating.

 

[ImmortalDread]

BadSystem, I beg you, read the first two pages of the light novel, and you see it is Anos's perspective. Don't derail and tell me I am the one who can't check the scans, because I am the one who bought 4 light novels and read them all.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Like, holy shit.

This isn't even a "VENUZDONOA CAN DESTROY ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING, NO MATTER HOW BIG THAT IS!" or "VENUZDONOA HAS INFINITE POWAAAAA!!!", it's a pretty clear explanation on what it does.

 

[Stryker861]

Yea i also disagree here. Dread using your logic you could argue almost any stament is a NLF just because we dont see it.
And you have to prove thats its a hyperbolic statment

 

[Phoenks]

There are, hence many verses that had those statements got rejected for this reason, the best examples OPM or Rimuru.

There is a difference between Hyperbole and NLF.

Hyperboles do exist inherently in stories, because they are actual literary technique used in literature to exaggerate something. However, none of what is in these scans are hyperboles at all. They are direct, narrative statements meant to be taken literally.

NLF is a fallacy that people use to argue against people who wank statements or feats to their highest interpretation. NLF statements do not exist inherently in a story. It isn't a literary technique or anything, it's a argumentative fallacy.

Saying that the statements in these scans are inherently invoking no-limits-fallacy is insane.

But there are absolutely no feats he has gone with "infinite size of structure". What is your point?

One again, Dread.

If the sword has effortlessly destroyed everything it's tried to destroy without any problems, then there is no anti feats against it being High 3-A.

What I'm saying is, even if there's no High 3-A feats, there's also no feats that actually debunk the High 3-A statements because it hasn't ever struggled to destroy anything it's been faced with.

 

[Shmooply]

I agree with downgrading Anus to 10-B, yes I still can't stop thinking about that goon who genuinely thought he had an impressive physique.

 

[BadSystems]

BadSystem, I beg you, read the first two pages of the light novel, and you see it is Anos's perspective. Don't derail and tell me I am the one who can't check the scans, because I am the one who bought 4 light novels and read them all.

My bad G, but I’d assume Anos knows what his sword does in his personal thoughts.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I agree with downgrading Anus to 10-B, yes I still can't stop thinking about that goon who genuinely thought he had an impressive physique.

But he does.

 

[ImmortalDread]

You quoting the justification and scans linked to them?

This is a single statement, so what is exactly “further evidence”? The scan is the main evidence.

Nah, fiction can have infinite things and other things bigger than it. (Though, I'm not even 100% sure what you mean by this to begin with. Weirdly worded)

Exactly, it has, but there were absolutely none in the verse, and to rate it because "Anos did everything except anything related to the sizes, for example defying logics or combining two sources into one despite its clear impossibility" has nothing to do with AP at all.

So, you're aware Venuzdonoa can destroy spaces and dimensions, which are/can be 4d? Alright, tier 2 Venuzdonoa agreed upon.

Spaces and dimensions were referring to distance, so no, I was not in agreement it is 4D. The statement itself were referring to speed and has been established in volume 4.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

We are specifically talking about AP's feats.

This has absolutely nothing to do with high 3-A

One can argue it can destroy tier 0 structures if the feats that have absolutely nothing to do with cosmologies/structures/sizes as long as it is "capable to do anything"

Even if the feats are not there we can still prove this with the feat it has shown currently and use it has to prove infinite statement and also it was said by Anos which further holds more of it being true that it can destroy anything even infinite.

 

[ImmortalDread]

My bad G, but I’d assume Anos knows what his sword does in his personal thoughts.

Irrelevant, this is the exact reason why we did not allow the sword to get the same rating as Anos since there is absolutely no mention to this (even the translator mentioned that there were no narrative perspective when it comes to this)

 

[ImmortalDread]

Even if the feats are not there we can still prove this with the feat it has shown currently and use it has to prove infinite statement and also it was said by Anos which further holds more of it being true that it can destroy anything even infinite.

You mean the feats that have absolutely nothing to do with AP or structures or sizes? Anos is not omniscient, so I don't get your argument.